G&G-Fan

JoyOfEditing said:

Goodness Gracious, that’s a lot of questions, lol! I’ll do my best to address them all, but if I miss one gimme a shout.

My apologies. I get carried away sometimes.

JoyOfEditing said:

1. How did you bring the Prequel Duels into alignment with the Duels in the OT? - There’s two pronged answer to that. On the technical side the OT Duels are cut on the wrong frames which makes them feel slow. If you use the same cutting techniques that Ben Burtt used in the Prequels, they can hit with the same speed/force (except the famous SC38, but I came up with an unorthodox way to fix that problem).

On the other hand, the Prequel Duels suffer from sequencing issues (that’s why they feel “overstimulating and hollow” as you correctly pointed out), but if you resequence them to match the sequencing of the OT Duels, they also line up nicely. That’s exactly what I did to make the Grievous Duel more engaging.

I’m glad. I’m quite interested in seeing the results.

For the record, I’m not of the opinion that the OT duels are too slow, tho I find the ANH one a little clunky. I think the Vader and Luke duels are perfect the way they are, but I’m still interested in seeing your versions.

JoyOfEditing said:

2. How did you address the “power levels” of the duelists across the SAGA? - I made a single story decision, and then recut all the duels to serve that decision. Basically, there’s a story problem when it comes to the duels. The visual symbolism is telling one story, and the dialogue is telling another. The dialogue says that Luke must train hard enough to tear down Darth Vader in a death match, whereas the visuals say he must stay his hand to break the cycle of violence.

Watch the Visuals: Maul cut’s down Qui-Gon, so Obi-Wan retaliates by cutting Maul in Half. Dooku cuts off Anakin’s arm, so Anakin cuts off his hands and kills him. Obi-Wan de-limbs Anakin, so Anakin kills Obi-Wan out of revenge. Vader cuts off Luke’s hand, so Luke cuts off Vader’s hand, BUT!!! in that moment Luke stops and looks at his own hand. The reason he does that is because he finally understood the meaning of his vision in the Cave of Evil. If he cuts off Vader’s head, he becomes Darth Vader, and the cycle of violence and revenge continues. That is why Luke throws away his lightsaber and says he’s a Jedi like his father before him. The Jedi in the Prequels had become like the Sith, engaged in the never-ending cycle of revenge. That circle must be broken for balance to return to the Force. Obi-Wan’s sacrifice in A New Hope is actually his most important lesson to Luke. He is showing Luke the way to bring balance: lower your guard and sacrifice yourself. If you recut the OT so that Obi-Wan and Yoda tell Luke he must “face” Vader but cut all mentions of them telling Luke to kill him, the whole SAGA suddenly makes thematic sense.

But the dialogue isn’t ever explicitly telling Luke to kill Vader.
While the trilogy builds up to Luke being skilled enough to fight Vader, it’s not saying he should murder his father in rage.
It’s telling him to face and defeat him, but warning him that he might have to kill him out of duty, if he has to. Whatever it takes to render him a non-threat to the galaxy’s freedom.

Luke is Vader’s blood, thus he’s their only hope of defeating him (besides Leia, but she hasn’t even started her training yet).

The Jedi aren’t counting on Vader being conflicted (as is what happens), nor do they want Luke to give into a dark side power boost, so even sending Luke to fight Vader is risky, because normally, in the ROTJ-era, they’re equals in terms of power and skill (which is essentially peak Force-user).
But again, Luke’s their best chance. As such, he needs to go in with full conviction.

Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t believe there’s any good in Vader. Of course they don’t, Vader is a cold-blooded monster, at this point.
What they didn’t know is that he still had a genuine soft spot for his son, beyond wanting him for power.
But even so, Anakin doesn’t resurface until after two movies of psychologically and physically abusing his son to try and make him his tool. Vader even sadistically gloats about turning his sister after killing him if he refuses, and watches him get excruciatingly electrocuted for over a minute.

Vader’s stance is “Join me or die” (at least, that’s what he says, and thus, it must be accounted for). Luke has to be comfortable with fighting for his life and the freedom of the galaxy.
Luke can’t kill him out of revenge (the dark side, thus going down the path of an addiction to this dark magic that’s incredibly hard to let go of), but must be willing to out of duty, compassion for the people of the galaxy (the light side), if he must.

Vader and the Emperor are space Nazis. Fascists’ endgame is always violence. If a supernaturally powerful space Nazi is trying to kill you because you won’t join him, you can’t just let him. Otherwise, you’ve let fascism win. This is why Anakin killing Palpatine out of love for his son is framed as heroic.

And while Luke makes the right choice to not give into revenge, he still makes a mistake in completely letting his guard down, he leaving himself vulnerable to the Emperor’s lightning, which is exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan warned him about. While this is remedied by the return of Anakin, that wasn’t the smartest thing to do.

Obi-Wan surrendered to Vader because he knows he can’t beat him, and Luke was gonna rush up to help him. The galaxy’s hope would’ve gotten himself killed too soon. Ben surrendered to teach Luke to let go and protect him and his friends, so they could escape.

Obi-Wan killing Maul isn’t wrong. He did it in self-defense. He was in a life-and-death situation and did his duty. There is no negative consequence to this kill, nor does Obi-Wan have any arc about revenge.

JoyOfEditing said:

3. Did you cut any Vader scenes out of Empire Strikes Back? - Yes. Several. But cutting out those scenes, massively improves the Vader scenes that remain, so you ironically end up with more iconic Vader scenes instead of less. I’m not gonna tell you which Vader scenes I cut here, cause you’ll have to wait for the episode where I address that part of the recut 😉.

Every Vader scene in the OT is already iconic to me, so I disagree, but again, I’m curious as to what you did and your reasoning for it.

JoyOfEditing said:

3. Grievous can feel pain in his robot arms, why did you goof that up in your recent episode? - First, you’re absolutely right that cyborgs (like Luke Skywalker) can feel pain in their artificial limbs. Second, I cut most of the “Droid Pain” out of my version of the SAGA (Threepio doesn’t bonk his head on Bespin, the Droid Torture Scene has been cut from Return of the Jedi, The Battle Droids don’t scream when they’re killed, ect. . .) My thinking is that Droids can “express” pain as part of their self-preservation programming, but do not “feel pain” the way a human or a cyborg would. When it comes to General Grievous, I’m sure he “feels pain” in his organic bits, but I cannot imagine there would be a tactical advantage to him “feeling pain” in his limbs. In Grievous’ fighting style his “limbs” are used like “tools” (think the Buzz-Saw-Arm-Move). If one arm goes down, the other three need to keep spinning to finish the kill shot. If you’ve ever watched Robot Wars, the robot that generally wins isn’t the one that doesn’t get hit, but rather the one that follows through with it’s own hit as it’s being hit. In my view pain receptors would get in the way of that particular fighting style, so I recut the scene as if Grievous had 4 “weapons”, not 4 “hands”. Does that make sense?

I’m a little confused on the “express” pain but can’t “feel” it. Expression is making one’s feelings explicit. You can’t express something you can’t feel. Feelings are how we get information about what’s happening to our body.

Regardless, I see what you’re going for with Grievous. I only wonder if him basically having CIPA is worth the trade-off. But you do you.

Lando probably found some other way. There are more then one ways to get into acquaintance with a mob boss.

.Mac. said:

Did Lando have to prove himself, though? Let’s say Lando did, and he brought in someone - great, he’s in. Now it’s her turn, but the point I’m trying to make clear is did she absolutely have to bring in Chewie? Clearly she could’ve brought in anyone else with a bounty if Lando was able to. Or, if Lando didn’t have to prove himself, and none of the other patrons do either, why should she have to? 😉

Lando probably proved himself in some other way. He was there and serviced Jabba for like, a year. He was needed to give Luke intel about things.

Lando is likely there so he can sneak the droids out after Leia frees Han. Luke wouldn’t just abandon R2 and 3PO (who were there to keep Luke’s lightsaber in case he needed it, bc he’d be searched upon entering if he needed to, and to deliver Luke’s message to attempt a non-violent solution).

JEDIT: Leia would bring in Chewie instead of anybody else first bc it’s less effort, second he’s on their side, he’s there to help if they need it (which, they end up needing it).

She needed to prove herself to Jabba. This is a gangster, he doesn’t just let any schmuck in.

Would Vito Corleone just let anybody hang around his property?

It feels kinda like you’re trying to come up with justification to cut the scene, rather then the reverse. Which is fine, that’s your opinion, but some of the criticisms feel kinda forced.

Definitely a nitpick but it would’ve kicked ass if Vader and Luke did a force-push fight, like Anakin and Obi-Wan did in ROTS.

Not bc poetry or anything (obviously this was made before the Prequels) but bc it’s the ultimate battle between light and dark.

Roobyoo said:

In the german translation, C-3PO is saying "Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never got out of this palace (“Lando Calrissian und der arme Chewbacca sind aus dieser Burg nie wieder herausgekommen.”)

Translations aren’t always accurate.

I’ve watched enough bad English dubs of Godzilla movies to know that 😄

Since you’re editing the films for better cohesion, were the Prequel duels toned down to be more like the OT duels? And/or were the OT duels edited?

First, I prefer the style of the Vader/Luke duels. Their fighting feels more powerful, it has more weight and tension. I find the Prequel ones often overstimulating and hollow.

Second, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan, and eventually Luke Skywalker are (and should be) incredibly powerful Force users and skilled dualists.
They were supposed to be in the 70s/80s, and are again, canonically.
Vader and Ben in ANH should be beyond their prior selves, hence their boasts to each other. The script even describes their battle as “masterful”, “powerful”, even “lightning”.

Vader is the terrifying, powerful villain of the trilogy, the Empire’s ultimate enforcer who slayed the Jedi. The pathos relies on viewing him as imposing.
Vader is 80% as powerful as the Emperor in Lucas-Canon and Legends, and even more powerful then the Emperor in Disney-Canon (he has contingencies to ensure Vader’s loyalty).
Originally lightsabers were meant to be heavy, so Vader fighting with just one hand for part of the ESB duel showed great of a warrior he is.
Vader should be more powerful as a cyborg, not less. Also, Grievous proves cybernetics shouldn’t hamper lightsaber skills.

Obi-Wan is the enlightened, experienced mentor figure Luke, and thus the audience, looks up to and aspires to be. He’s a Master Jedi Knight, a relic of that golden age, and his skills should reflect that. Again, the pathos relies on it.
Ben canonically easily kills Maul a few years before ANH. Also, Dooku and Yoda prove old age shouldn’t hamper lightsaber skills.

This is why it’s impactful when Vader kills Luke’s mentor in-front of him. The whole trilogy builds to Luke being able to fight and beat him.
Luke’s journey is becoming a complete Jedi Knight, just as great of a Jedi as the one’s of old, as Ben. Part of that is his saber skills and Force power. It’s even stressed he has to be that, in order to face the mighty Vader. Reinforcing Vader > the Prequel duelists; the only one who can beat him is his son, his own blood.
Luke should be incredibly powerful and skilled, not lesser then the Prequel dualists, both in ESB and especially ROTJ. Vader even says his skills are "complete” in ROTJ, and in ESB, says they’re “most impressive”.
While Vader is mostly just toying with Luke in ESB, the power disparity isn’t as much as ppl think (Jedi training didn’t used to take decades). And Luke contending with Vader in ROTJ should be a mighty feat. He wins he’s become Vader’s equal in power and skill, but Vader is conflicted and Luke gets a dark side boost at the end.

Basically, the OT films were fundamentally built so Vader, Ben, and Luke are great warriors, so they shouldn’t be undermined by the Prequels.

Also, I hope none of Darth Vader’s scenes were cut from your version of ESB. That’d be blasphemy (joking… or am I).

JoyOfEditing said:

After a long battle with YouTube’s Copyright Goblins, the next two episodes are now live!

They both cover the recut of the Utapau Duel, and I hope y’all enjoy them!

Part 1: https://youtu.be/foXKzbzaaXc

Part 2: https://youtu.be/DN6BpdJQJ-g

Good videos.

One thing though, when you talk about how Grievous shouldn’t feel pain: first, droids feel pain in Star Wars. Multiple times. For example, 3PO in ESB, when Chewie doesn’t crouch low enough entering the Falcon in the escape from Bespin.
Second, so do cyborgs. The very first thing we see when Luke gets his cyborg hand is testing pain receptors. Vader yells in pain when his hand gets cut off.

Anybody with CIPA will tell you, pain is very important. You want to know what’s happening with your own body (recommend the House MD episode “Insensitive”, if you want to know how ppl who can’t feel pain live).

Star Wars droids/cyborgs are advanced enough to have artificial pain receptors. And therefore it makes sense that they should. You don’t want to accidentally put your hand on a stove for a half-hour without even noticing.

Also that’d imply it took a whole year for Boba to deliver. Which is hilariously ridiculous.

When he said he never came back from “this awful place” he was probably referring to Tatooine.

Spartacus01 said:

Not if you watch the movies in release order, like almost everyone does. Don’t take this as a personal attack, but by following your logic, the Prequels should not exist in the first place, because almost every single element of the Original Trilogy feels like that. The Jedi, the Dark Side, the Empire, Alderaan, and so on. You need to remove some of the mystery surrounding these things if you want to watch the Prequels first, that’s just inevitable.

When talking about the movies as they are, then yes, the Originals need to be watched first.
But I’m talking about a version of the Prequels where they’re watched as the first movies. There’s merits to that, first and foremost being the ability to watch it at one cohesive story, like you would any other film series.

The Jedi can be introduced in the Prequels. They aren’t mentioned in ANH until the scene in Ben’s hut, and the emotions between Luke and Ben carry it well enough without mystery of what the Jedi are. Especially since there’s very little time between when the concept is introduced and when it’s explained.

The Empire isn’t mysterious. You jump into ANH with an Imperial Star Destroyer, Stormtroopers and Darth Vader immediately showing up. And while there was a mystery to Vader at first, his introduction is badass enough that the scene is still awesome without it, especially if proceeded by a good version of the Prequels.

Alderaan is a mystery? From space it just looks like Earth, and we never see the surface.

There is a difference between those examples and a whole 5 minute stretch of time where we’re supposed to feel nervous for the droids because they’re in a dangerous wasteland.

Skybatman said:

u made tatooine in the prequels geonosis but that wouldn’t make the everything a little smaller, like geonosis where the planet were anakin lived with his mother where the separatist droids is where the clone wars started where anakin lost his arm and his mother ?

No universe shrinking has occurred because no planet was deleted or added.

Geonosis is an Outer rim planet, making it both a good candidate for the humble beginnings of Anakin like Tatooine is for Luke, but also makes sense for Separatist sentiments to grow, as they could feel abandoned by the Republic.

Either that or turn any appearance of Tatooine in the Prequels to a whole new planet.

When watching A New Hope, and the droids are trekking Tatooine, there’s meant to be an air of mystery. You don’t know what you’re gonna find.
The Prequels ruin that.

So I propose turning Tatooine into Geonosis. This would be done through color grading and new mattes. Then have it so Yoda and Obi-Wan move the Lars and Luke to a different planet to increase the chances of Vader not finding them.

JoyOfEditing said:

Is this the point where I should tell you I cut ESB down to 90 minutes?

How?! That movie has like perfect pacing! Every scene is the perfect length and every scene is important.

This is pretty great!

I’m quite interested in both your Prequel and OT edits. For the Prequels, I’m interested in how you approached Anakin’s characterization, turn to the dark side, and the scene with Vader in the suit in ROTS (I hope you made it less cheesy).

I’m very interested in your OT changes from a curiosity standpoint. Most people leave those alone, especially ESB.

That guy with no name said:

This maybe a conversational opinion, But frankly but the D+ preservations don’t look that good.
You can see the salvaged DNR and added grain as well as faulty rotoscoping.
So no I wont be using that as a source, Also 4K80 is nearly finished.

Not only can these issues be rectified, but it fixes issues with the 2011 versions that can’t. Like the crushed blacks.

This shot of Vader is complete non-sense with the Blu-Ray, and you can’t fix it. You can’t get that back.

Here’s the 2019 version. You can actually see Vader’s mask! It’s a miracle!

The colors of the 2004 master were permanently altered beyond repair. Lots of the colors were so oversaturated or crushed that the original colors aren’t even there anymore. Even the best regrades can’t recover what’s lost.

“But they had to make the clones CGI! They all needed to be the same size!”

proof that they could’ve just had a guy in a clone costume and then used CGI to copy-paste them a million times from George Lucas himself

I wonder if I could use this to implement my idea of replacing some of the background rebel and imperial extras with aliens (talking OT, tho likely some Prequel stuff too).

Would probably require a different strategy since I have to implement it into footage and not just a still picture.

That fight scene is really entertaining if you pause and look at their faces. Especially Palpatine’s.

Mrebo said:

My edit has been on the back burner but occasionally game out how to address things I want to address.

Changing the podrace announcer was a dream out of my reach but with AI it would be easy.

This is not perfect (link good for 2 days) but it’s pretty good:

https://streamable.com/xdrunx

Please spill your secrets, something like this would be so, soooooo useful for some of my ideas.

Wow those lines are just so much better even on their own

One of the most hilarious scenes to me is when the inquisitors chastise Reva for harshly interrogating the citizens of Tatooine. Did they forget that they’re evil? For Vader, their boss, that’s a Tuesday when he’s in a good mood (though obviously without the yelling and overly wordy speech).

There were conflicting ways with which Lucas tried to reconcile making Anakin and Vader the same person (I don’t say this in a negative way; I think is the best creative decision in all of Star Wars, personally).
In Ben’s monologue to Luke in SW77/ANH, he describes Anakin as if he’s a peer, and Vader as “a young Jedi” and his pupil.

I think the idea is that, when the characters were combined for ESB and ROTJ, it was retconned so that Vader and Ben were closer in age. As said in ROTJ, Anakin was still his student, but they became peers after Anakin became a knight.
I think there’s a slightly noticeable shift in Vader’s portrayal between ANH and ESB in making him appear more “mature”. He’s more stoic, his voice is deeper, and he moves in a more deliberate fashion. I think that’s a result of Vader, behind the scenes, going from being just Ben’s former pupil, separated by decades in age, to his former friend, around the same age, as well as being a father. This is solidified by Anakin’s unmasked self and Force ghost in 1983 being a similar age to Ben.

When it came time for the Prequels, it seemed that Lucas changed his mind and went back to the idea that Anakin/Vader is noticeably younger then Obi-Wan, leaning more towards his description as a young Jedi. The Prequels establish that he was only 22 upon turning to the dark side, when Obi-Wan was 38. This is what led to the Force ghost change. I’m sure Lucas handwaves his rough appearance when unmasked to being roasted by lava (I prefer the idea of dark side physical corruption).

I think a middle ground is better. Anakin should’ve been more in his late twenties when turning, with Vader being in his 50s in the OT. 22 is just too young. But I don’t think Vader should be like, in his 70s in the OT either.

The theatrical version makes more sense. The stormtroopers are only pretending to try and capture the heroes, and are trying to convince them they escaped based on their own skills. To lead him to an entire barrack would leave Han wondering why the entire garrison didn’t follow him.

Just use DigiModification’s

Whenever I’m put into a position (mostly involuntary) where I’m looking at the 2004/2011 grade of Hoth, I like to pretend that it’s not actually a snow planet. It’s a planet made up of Walter White’s blue meth ground up into powder.

Make “Han Solo Saves Christmas” already, you cowards