G&G-Fan

you deleted the cut list for this and AOTC

Lucas trying to parallel Anakin and Luke’s arcs does nothing but detriment the story.

Luke’s arc in the OT is going from a farm boy to a Jedi Knight. Each movie is a different trial in his path to become one, and he’s not fully a Jedi until ROTJ. Anakin, as established in the OT, was a Jedi who became a Sith. Becoming Darth Vader should’ve been what the whole trilogy was about.

But Lucas clearly wanted to parallel Luke, where the first movie is basically just his recruitment, the second is being a padawan learner, and then in the third one, he’s a Knight. And that just fundamentally doesn’t work. By trying to parallel Luke’s arc but also build up to him becoming Vader, Lucas just makes Anakin look like a bad egg. He’s slaughtering Tusken kids at 19. They had him peak when he was 9. Nine. And it’s what leads to ROTS being rushed, even if I still enjoy it. He had to develop Anakin as a Jedi Knight and his turn in like, an hour. That’s insane.

It should’ve just started with Anakin as a Jedi. There’s nothing we learn about him in episodes 1 and 2 that couldn’t be exposition.

NFBisms, I’m doing an edit of ROTS where one of Anakin’s motivations is that he craves the power of immortality. I’m hiring a Palpatine voice actor (who’s done work for Star Wars Story in the past) to do new Palpatine lines to integrate this idea. I’m also rearranging scenes so for example the opera scene (with some changed dialogue) comes before the nightmare about Padme’s death (showing Anakin’s intrigued by the prospect of cheating death even before), and Palpatine isn’t even gonna know about the nightmare.

I don’t have the Palpatine lines yet (I need some time to make money after the holidays) but once the edit is done, if your vision aligns with mine in that way, I’d be more then happy to allow you to use them.

SparkySywer said:

Why put The Phantom Menace so low?

Once the initial action-packed opening ended it became really boring. The movie throws away pretty much all potential it has for emotional investment, and only some individual scenes stick out (Liam Neeson hard carries). It doesn’t show any of the carnage caused by the trade federation, thus you don’t have any sympathy for Padme’s situation like you do Leia’s in ANH. Same problem with Anakin, no abuse is even hinted at. The mf literally goes “yippee” to his slave master. The only potential value that seeing Vader as a 9 year old could possibly offer is just thrown out the window. It’s just a fundamentally stupid concept making him that young, he either can’t do enough or anything he does is flat out ridiculous because, again, he’s 9. Obi-Wan has hardly anything to do. AOTC is the first prequel movie where Obi-Wan really feels like a character, in TPM he’s basically just Qui-Gon’s sidekick who bickers with him all the time. Even the relationship between the Gungans and the Naboo is squandered. Could’ve maybe actually explored why they hated each other and reconciling, as well as expounding upon whatever symbiotic relationship Obi-Wan was talking about, but nope. You can see that Lucas was trying to explore the themes of symbiotic relationships, that people need to work together in order to accomplish things, and as someone who takes a lot of interest in ecology, it’s an interesting concept, but it simply doesn’t come together.

I don’t like it for the same reason a lot of people who dislike the prequels like it the most of the 3: it’s irrelevancy to the larger story. I know many people hate AOTC more because it messes up Anakin, but not only does Obi-Wan still make it enjoyable for me, but trying and failing to tell Anakin’s story well is better then doing basically nothing at all.

Final Star Wars ranking after my 2023 annual Star Wars marathon

1. Empire Strikes Back - 10/10
2. Return of the Jedi - 10/10
3. A New Hope - 10/10
4. Rogue One - 9/10
5. Revenge of the Sith - 7/10
6. The Last Jedi - 7/10
7. The Force Awakens - 7/10
8. Solo - 6/10
9. Attack of the Clones - 5/10
10. The Phantom Menace - 3/10
11. The Rise of Skywalker - 2/10

Yep, I came around on TLJ. TROS will forever suffer my wrath tho

Thankfully, I will not have to resort to AI, at least for Palpatine’s new dialogue. Someone has reached out to me who can voice act Palpatine.

Here are the new lines I’m planning:
“He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep himself and his apprentice from dying.”
“Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep before he could heal himself.”
“Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to unlock Plagueis’ secret to cheat death.”
“I know you’ve always craved the power of eternal life, to deny death, just as much as I do. It is only natural. We must conquer the Jedi Temple, take back the Sith holocrons they have kept from us. Use what we can. With our powers combined, I know we can unlock Plagueis’ secret. If he could discover the secret, certainly the son of the Force itself could.”
“Together we will rule the galaxy forever. Me as Emperor, and you as my invincible enforcer. You will answer to no one but me, son.”
“Know the power of the dark side. The power of eternal life.”
“Every single Jedi, including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi, are now enemies of our new Empire.”
“Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to cheat death.”
“Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy… forever.”

Also, I’m doing this for my Vader edition of ROTS, I thought I’d share here.

I’m implementing the idea of Anakin turning because he craves immortality without having him have a vision of dying on Mustafar. That doesn’t really do much other then make Darth Vader into a self-preserving victim, the opposite of my intent.

Instead, I’d accomplish this by moving the opera scene before he has a nightmare (my version is also gonna have the political subplot moved before the nightmare). The dialogue would be edited and new voice lines would be done so that instead of “saving people from dying” it’s referred to as “cheating death”. This shows that Anakin is intrigued by the prospect even before he knows of Padme’s impending doom. The nightmare about Padme is moved forward all the way after Obi-Wan leaves Utapau (which thematically makes sense: for all Anakin knows, Grievous could kill Obi-Wan; now he’s faced with the prospect of losing another loved one).

It’d also be modified that Palpatine doesn’t even know about Anakin’s nightmare. Padme is never mentioned in any of his scenes with Palpatine. Though new dialogue with a Palpatine voice actor (I was gonna resort to AI, but I’ve just been offered help by someone who knows Palpatine voice actors), Palps offer isn’t to save Padme, but that they’ll figure out the secret to immortality together and Anakin will be second in-command of the Empire.

It makes far more sense for Anakin to believe Palpatine here. Instead of framing it as, “Palpatine is offering Anakin the power to save Padme”, it’s “Palpatine is offering Anakin to become his apprentice so they can learn to cheat death together and basically be immortal Force gods that rule the galaxy forever”. Anakin knows that the Sith’s ultimate goal is immortality, and that the dark side is the only potential path to it, as the light side is all about respecting the natural course of life. Palpatine craves that power as much as he does, and Anakin also has reason to believe Palpatine would actually make this offer to him, even for purely selfish reasons. Palpatine wants an all-powerful immortal being to enforce his Empire. Originally, Anakin would have no reason to believe Palpatine would actually have any investment in saving Padme and isn’t just lying. The Sith, a group of selfish egomaniacs would not have a power dedicated to saving others. Anakin figures if he can figure out the power to cheat death for himself, he can do it for Padme too, but the idea here is that Palpatine doesn’t pitch that. He’s not gonna pretend he, a selfish Sith lord, cares about Padme. Anakin should see through that lie, he’s encountered several Sith, and Palpatine should know he would see through that lie.

It also makes it so Palpatine has a solid plan, instead of just getting lucky that Anakin happened to have a nightmare about Padme, he simply preys upon a desire that Anakin has had since he was a powerless slave.

If we’re comparing to Michael Corleone’s arc in The Godfather, the nightmare functions less like the assassination attempt on Vito and more like Apollonia’s death. The final straw rather then the spark.

Create an edit of the Yoda-Anakin scene in ROTS to make it so Yoda is a hologram, so that those who rearrange the movie so the political subplot comes before the nightmare can still have that scene.

New idea: what if the Darth Plagueis scene takes place before Anakin’s nightmare?

What this would do is show that Anakin has an interest in the power to cheat death before he even has any idea that Padme is going to die. Anakin is immediately intrigued by the prospect of cheating death and asks how to learn it. This would make Palpatine stating in their scene together later that he knows Anakin has always wanted immortality come less out of nowhere, and it also would do more to show that Padme’s death is the final straw rather then the sole reason.

I’d love a link, please

I just rewatched the Prequels as a part of my annual Star Wars marathon, so they’re now fresh in my mind. I’m making changes to my plans for my edits (and what I’ve done so far), taking into account my latest experience watching the films. TPM is especially gonna change dramatically (I liked it the least of the 3), but I’m still figuring out how (so it hasn’t changed much).

I’ve updated the changelist, but I’ll summarize the most important things here.

Anakin having a vision of himself burning on Mustafar isn’t happening anymore. I was trying to add an element of Vader craving immortality, but all it does is make it seem like he’s turning to the dark side out of basic self-preservation, which makes Vader too much of a victim, the opposite of my intent. Instead, I plan on adding this element through AI dialogue, mostly through Anakin’s scenes with Palpatine, as well as smart editing, emphasizing “the power to cheat death” over “saving Padme”. How exactly I will do it and what the exact dialogue will be, I don’t know. But it’s too important that I’m willing to resort to AI to accomplish it. The symmetry with his death in ROTJ is just too good of an idea. I’m also gonna use AI dialogue to have Palpatine outright promise him second in-command of his new Empire, thus further highlighting Anakin’s general lust for power.

I’m gonna attempt to keep Anakin’s scene with Yoda about his dream while keeping the Anakin/Palpatine/Council political subplot before the dream by moving Yoda going to Kashyyyk to later in the movie. It’s just such an impactful scene. It could mess up the pacing badly, but it’s worth an attempt.

I really appreciated the tight pacing around Anakin on rewatch, and am considering only keeping the third of the three Padme political scenes, or maybe just cutting the second one (it really doesn’t add anything). I think the third scene stands fine on it’s own, and if additional info is needed, the first is enough. Not final though, so I haven’t added it to the changelist.

Other then that, besides a couple minor things, the changelist remains mostly the same.

I think it’s really cool that this edit is making visual changes whilst still attempting to look like something made in 1977. Recently I’ve come to believe that maintaining that authenticity is really important, rather then shoving 90s CG (or more modern CG) into a 70s movie. It just doesn’t look right.

These are some cool ideas I might incorporate in my Prequel rewrite.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother.

Then why does Owen hate Obi-Wan so much?

Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

When did the Empire begin? What put him in the suit before he fought Obi-Wan?

Anakin Starkiller said:

Has anyone considered addressing Palpatine by name in the OT? It would spoil the twist of the PT for first time viewers, assuming they watch the movies in production order as they should, but it would help tie the films together more cohesively in a subtle way.

It’s not a twist for anyone who’s seen the OT.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Woohoo, a five second throwaway line that could’ve been replaced with a dozen other things.

Vader wouldn’t be able to turn Leia to the dark side if she wasn’t Force sensitive.

Also throwaway line is genuinely hilarious considering it’s what causes Luke to almost turn to the dark side and kill Vader.

I forgot to mention this before, but it also heightens the stakes. Luke says that if he dies along Vader and the Emperor, Leia can take over as she’s also Force sensitive. If there was nobody else in the cast that could become a Jedi then the audience wouldn’t feel like there’s any risk of Luke dying.

My objections to Leia being a Skywalker are as follows:

• It comes out of nowhere

“No, there is another.”

Just because the answer to who that was was changed between movies doesn’t mean it wasn’t set up. The specifics of the pay-off just changed.

• It feels contrived that the secret sibling is someone Luke already knows

I can’t necessarily argue with “feels like” but within the lore it’s been justified three times over the circumstances in which they met. Bail Organa and Obi-Wan know each other, Obi-Wan trusted Bail with Anakin’s daughter, Bail trusted his daughter to find Obi-Wan leading her to Luke.

Having Luke’s sister just so happen to be the only other woman he’s spent the three films with is contrived to the point of ruining my immersion.

So you admit there’s nobody else it could be?

Say what you will about Rey being a Palpatine (I won’t pretend that isn’t stupid as well) but her grandparent only comes in at the end specifically looking for his granddaughter; he didn’t just bump into her at a bar.

The only reason she’s able to find her way to Exegol is because she managed to solve this intricate treasure hunt that Palpatine couldn’t have possibly predicted. He didn’t seek her out at all. He asked Kylo to kill her.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Removing the familial relationship is so much better because the having them pull a sister out of a hat yet having it be an established character only for it to go absolutely nowhere not only shrinks the universe but is just generally the single worst piece of writing in the entire Saga and I’m including Rise of Skywalker in that statement. It’s incredibly clumsy and embarrassing and I hate it.

It doesn’t go nowhere, it’s used by Vader to taunt Luke.

Acting like this is worse then The Rise of Skywalker is so insane it makes me think that you like shipped Luke and Leia in the first two or something, because it takes some major emotional attachment to actually believe that.

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

‘Star Wars: De-Incest Edition’

Leia is not Luke’s brother- snip out all the pieces of dialogue that say so.

At the top of my head only includes: Some of the stuff Ghost Obi-Wan tells Luke on Dagobah, some of what Luke says to Leia on Endor, and the baby Leia in Episode III (which I know isn’t OT, but still).

None of this would diminish Leia’s role in any of the films and would remove the incest-y details.

alternatively just remove Luke and Leia kissing (both times).

that’s better for me personally. Leia being Luke’s sister is just too iconic and ingrained at this point. Luke and Leia’s conversation in ROTJ is so good and her being used as emotional leverage by Vader also makes it all worth it.

Episode 8 of Ahsoka gave us a perfect new Hayden Anakin force ghost. Just roto him out, put him in the scene, and you’re good. I might try and attempt it at some point.

your google doc doesn’t exist anymore

hinventon said:

With all the Ahsoka content out would it be possible to take older Hayden and make a new ROTJ ghost with it?

That Anakin ghost in episode 8 is kinda perfect when you think about it

This one has officially started. I’m doing these in order.

I’m really trying to figure out how to handle the first act. I want when we meet Anakin to be closer to the time code when you meet Luke in A New Hope, while also keeping the Otah Gungah. After consideration, Boss Nass comes out of nowhere if you remove him from the beginning, and I like the sea monster chase (I always like the creatures of Star Wars). I was gonna move it to the third act, but I don’t think things add up under the new context. I also want to keep the opening negotiation sequence, though cut down. I think it’s important to establish the Jedi as peacekeepers, not warriors, and I like the opening action scene. In the end it’s gonna be a question of what to sacrifice for the sake of pacing.

I think one of the best ways to make the Otah Gungah sequence and Jar Jar more bearable is to dub him with an alien language. I wasn’t gonna do it at first but now I’m considering it again. Last time I watched this film and heard, “Yousa in big dodoo this time” I was seriously wondering whether I was even watching Star Wars.

timdiggerm said:

I feel like, without Otoh Gungah, Boss Nass & Co come out of nowhere in the 3rd act

That’s also true. The main issue is just how long it takes to get to Tatooine. I’m hoping to find a way to cut it so it works for my own edit, tho.

I find it kinda ironic that you cut the bongo sequence with the sea monsters because the cool creature stuff is the only reason I’d ever keep the journey to Otoh Gungah at all. Just my preference tho, obviously you can do what you want.

As I think about it more, I’m debating the change of Anakin’s vision foreshadowing his burning on Mustafar, as I think it almost victimizes him a bit too much. Vader being born partially from what’s pretty much self-preservation, while still making him look selfish, might border a bit too much on him being a victim rather then a power hungry monster. The only thing is, short of AI dialogue, I can’t really think of another way to add the “Anakin wants to be immortal” angle, which is important to my version.

Is the reason you’re keeping Anakin’s turn mostly the same is because you think it was executed well originally, or because you can’t really think of any additional changes to make it better?