towne32

BMadden said:

towne32 said:

BMadden said:

Did you take another look at the desaturated colors in the explosions we talked about yesterday and determine if anything could be done about that? Can’t wait for the release. 😃

Yeah. Actually, although my work on those shots is extremely minimal, it does look a bit more intense than the raw Tn1 shots as I up the contrast (darkening the blacks) and slightly bump the saturation. But no, they cannot be made fiery orange/red like Harmy’s.

Something like that should’ve been picked up in the scan. I don’t think it’s really bleached or anything. And a few example shots I’ve seen from other scans look similar. The flames are a bit more orange in some blasts than others (like the trench explosions). But some, like Red Leader, really do look a bit pale, don’t they? I can’t say conclusively, but this does seem to me the way the print actually looks to some degree. It’s possible that things changed for the GOUT. I just don’t know.

I think there will be some you’ll be happy with and some that will be a bit too pale for you.

Thanks for the explanation. As Harmy just said I’m sure everything will look great when watching the film and not comparing screen shots. 😉

Right! Actually the reason for the change was mostly that it blends with the surrounding shots better. The higher saturated explosion shots also have very green/blue saturation of the trench itself, which is at odds with some other shots. Not blaming Harmy for that, though. The GOUT has some of that going on.

BMadden said:

Did you take another look at the desaturated colors in the explosions we talked about yesterday and determine if anything could be done about that? Can’t wait for the release. 😃

Yeah. Actually, although my work on those shots is extremely minimal, it does look a bit more intense than the raw Tn1 shots as I up the contrast (darkening the blacks) and slightly bump the saturation. But no, they cannot be made fiery orange/red like Harmy’s.

Something like that should’ve been picked up in the scan. I don’t think it’s really bleached or anything. And a few example shots I’ve seen from other scans look similar. The flames are a bit more orange in some blasts than others (like the trench explosions). But some, like Red Leader, really do look a bit pale, don’t they? I can’t say conclusively, but this does seem to me the way the print actually looks to some degree. It’s possible that things changed for the GOUT. I just don’t know.

I think there will be some you’ll be happy with and some that will be a bit too pale for you.

Plenty of people had problems with the way the TN1 account operated. Even Williarob has said such. He even maintains that now that he thinks the group is clear of wrong doing. It’s probably the least controversial aspect of all of this.

LexX said:

You should follow your own advice and leave if you don’t like how the forum is (was) run.

If he should have left for not liking how it was run, should you leave for not liking how it is run? This is American politics logic. You don’t like the President I voted for? You can geeet out. Next election: I don’t like the President you voted for. I should stick around.

Cheebo said:

Oh you weren’t planning on releasing the '81 one as a MKV? 😦 Is there any chance of that going up?

Yeah. That would be no problem.

RU.08 said:

Of course, if you’d prefer to buy PF Clean and volunteer to clean-up frames I’m sure the they’d let you sign up for dirt and scratch removal.

Project files from the free ‘personal learning edition’ are compatible with the full version. So if you’re not the one who is going to be doing the heavy rendering anyway, that’s an option.

FrankT said:

Again, the adjustments look excellent, more a sort of natural look. Did you say the next version would have the 1981 crawl?

Yes. There’s a blu-ray version where the crawl is selected and then seamlessly branched. But if Harmy lets me call it 2.6, I’ll put out another MKV as well. Probably just with the 77 crawl.

I’m also hoping to get the lossless Harmy files to get a really proper encode for the final V2 release. But between the 97SE and 2.5, that’s something like 240 gigs I think. So, no immediate timeline on that.

But, a note on bitrate while I’m at it: Since proper BD authoring software was used, a lot of audio tracks had to go. I upped the bitrate to fill a BD25. So it’s now at target bitrate of 23 Mbps, max of 32. I’m sure there’s still generational loss, but hopefully it’s at an absolute minimum as that’s very high bitrate for a 720p movie.

FrankT said:

What about the shot of the exhaust port?

http://i.imgur.com/P5s1ee2.jpg ?

Funny enough, I accidentally deleted that shot on last night’s ‘final’ render in the process of upgrading the Falcon shot (there is something very wrong with the keyframes in that falcon shot or something. Interestingly, other versions have had glitches there too). So even if I wanted to shrug off another shot upgrade, I need to re-render anyway.

I’m going to work on the final Death Star shot that Harmy mentioned, and then render a real final version. So, speak now or forever hold your etc if there is anything else to address.

Actually, doing some comparisons, the TN1 shot does look better. Not the nicest in their release, but should still be an upgrade. Will do some pfclean work on it and see how it goes.

Yeah, that would be a good one. Perhaps it just needs the right kind of work done to it, but I don’t see the TN1 scan as a major upgrade to that shot. Seems a bit out of focus, actually. I wonder if the image quality bothers you, Harmy, or the animation, since I think you hand-animated that one?

If I could, I would upgrade the establishing shots of the squadron and S-foils shot, etc. But the light leak issue of this LPP scan just bugs me too much to use in those iconic shots (it messes with the ships’ engines). Hopefully you’ll be able to get Poita’s LPP scan or something for those ones (and others).

In general, I’m not messing with the shots you rotoscoped since you’ve got some high quality elements in there. The shot of Luke climbing into the X-wing is an exception. Slight downgrade in quality of the tip of the X-wing and hanging cables in exchange for an enormous upgrade in the focus of the shot. The light leak has a small effect on the light fixtures in this scene. But oh well. Other than that, the image quality and color in this scene are among the best in the LPP scan I think.

edit: Just saw your edit. Wow! That would be a huge honor. I can take another look at it, but I’m really not sure I can pull it off. Will see how it goes.

One final tweak was made and now 1.2 is finished.

Here’s the shot I just always wanted to upgrade:

http://i.imgur.com/DyMBafA.jpg

person #2 paid for the scan of the print belonging to person #3 and that while he was planning to give all the scans to -1, he was talked out of giving us the second one, even though that one was based on his own print, because Mike had actually paid for that one.

Well, this quote probably explains why I and many others have been confused for the last day or two. And, to be fair, it’s confusing as hell when not stated as explicitly as above. And hopefully it’s accurate, because if the statement is somehow incorrect, and we get another version, my head is going to explode.

Density said:

I mean 2.0 looks pretty great. I get the OCD thing about not having them all the same number, but frankly SW even though it’s 2.5 probably needs an upgrade more.

Though what I’d really like is for Harmy to just put all his efforts into creating a 1080p 3.0 to get it out sooner. The current versions look more than acceptable and I don’t think there’s going to be a whole lot of room left for improvement to be done at 720p.

The nice thing about ESB 2.0 to 2.5 is that it should probably be one of the (comparatively) smaller and more straight forward updates. 35mm footage will be used to upgrade the GOUT in some cases. But that work is being done at 1080p, so it will directly be working towards 3.0 in that sense as well. The color should be similar to 2.0, so most of the BD footage will not need to be messed with. And a couple of the major improvements have already been done afaik (some GOUT replacements, and the credits, which were a reconstruction with lots of typos in 2.0).

Kascnef82 said:

Would I get a warning from Verizon fios for downloading the Despecialized Editions since the file size is huge? Also can I stream it from my pc to tv via chromecast?

ISPs have absolutely no business dictating how large of files you are allowed to download. That said, for many Comcast jurisdictions, you would be using almost 10% of your monthly cap. As far as I know, Verizon is fully operating in the 21st century when it comes to stuff like caps (i.e., they don’t have them).

Chromecast doesn’t play MKVs and it doesn’t like DTS audio. So you’ll need to convert it to a format that works.

BMadden said:

Looking through your latest gallery on Imgur my only critique would be that the shots during the trench run where there is an explosion have too much orange removed from them. I can see why you wouldn’t want them to appear too saturated, but fiery explosions should have more of an orange color to them than I’m seeing in those shots. That’s the only thing I would change, however, as all of your other color adjustments are a big improvement over 2.5 imho.

Thanks. Perhaps you’re right, but I actually have no clue what is right or wrong in this case. I do agree that there should probably be a happy medium in between, though I’m not sure that I can achieve it. Maybe I’ll tinker with it.

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Molly said:

Wasn’t it said that they also decided to axe the IB Tech release because it might interfere with mverta’s negotiations with Fox and the Rat?

Oh fucking fuck that.

No. Regardless of who is right or wrong with all the other crap. No to this comment infinitely.

If it proceeds, never minding all the other BS, it will surely be proceeding because it is not seen to interfere with the Fox/Rat talks. Hell, it probably won’t be anywhere approaching partway done by that time. But don’t dismiss those negotiations as if they’re not the most important thing happening on or around this site.

theMaestro said:

Just to clarify Williarob: the technicolor print (whose screenshots were posted) you were working on was person 2’s or person 3’s?

This is really what the entire situation boils down to. If Mike is mistaken about which scan it is, that does change everything as far as I can tell. Yeah, there’s still team drama and accounts and media things and egos. But those are small things we’ve known about or accepted for ages. The important issue, why this all blew up, is about the ethics involved in that one scan.

edit: After reading williarob’s next response, maybe I’m mixing up my person #s again. I’ll withhold judgement until I’ve produced a proper flow chart and gotten it laminated.

Sigma957 said:

So this all came about because someone who owns an original print had a scan of it made and someone else has a copy of the scan that person paid for afterward. Yet the one who owns the original print STILL owns an original print. A PHYSICAL print.

It must be a western idea but I really do not see what the problem is here. It’s hard to digitally lay claim to ownership of something without a digital watermark from the beginning. Yeah they paid for it to be scanned but really what were they planning to do with it after it was scanned? Sit on it and pass it on to their children? To do what? Continue to sit on it?

Maybe it’s good I missed all the drama of the past few weeks. Longtime lurker here.

I get that the main point of this post is just to say you’re unaware of what is going on. But yes, you are absolutely unaware of everything that has gone on, why it is important, what the intentions are for the prints and scans in question, and why those involved are concerned about unforeseen distribution of those materials. And I think most of those aspects have been discussed today as well as throughout the weekend, so the answers should be fairly near the surface if you’re looking to be a bit more informed. Writing it off as a western thing would be another option.

mverta said:

Having it available for the upcoming home 4K push is absolutely part of the pitch package. I agree it’s a powerful asset!

Maybe it’ll be that disc that just about everyone has with their first UHD player. Like the Matrix was for a lot of people’s DVD players.

joefavs said:

What about popping in TN1’s version of the shot with the Dewback outside the cantina? Harmy’s animation was an impressive solution, but with the actual footage available in high def, I think it’s worth replacing.

I haven’t been able to get it to match well, but could give it another shot perhaps. Again, I wish I could rotoscope the thing because the foreground looks 20x better in Harmy’s 720p version.

There’s a reason I’m mostly replacing pure GOUT shots. It actually turns out that Luke climbing in the X-wing was rotoscoped, incorporating blu-ray elements. But the net quality improved enough that I’m leaving that one.

Wazzles said:

towne32 said:

Though I’ve already rendered it, I could delay it if there’s something that ends up making a big enough difference. What are your suggestions?

I’ve tried a few others during that final battle (the main sequence using GOUT in 2.5), and found that Harmy has them worked nicer than I can do.

The only two that really stand out to me are the sand crawler coming over the dune and the detention block extension. If I had to pick between the two, though, it would be the crawler. But if you’re already rendering, don’t delay it on my account. I probably won’t have a chance to watch for at least another week anyway. I will be happy with whatever you put out.

No worries, I’m happy to hear suggestions since I mostly only focus on the things that catch my eye when watching. Namely, Mos Eisley.

The sandcrawler is probably the Anakin’s Eyebrows of SW for this forum, and it does pop out a little to me. I’d love to fix it, but one skill I really do not have is rotoscoping. That sequence is a bit of a nightmare, because all three segments are linked by wipes. It’s not the greatest part of TN1’s scan, in my opinion. So if rotoscoping isn’t a choice, the picture quality of the whole thing would jump waaay down without blu-ray elements. Plus it would need a ton more cleanup. Maybe Harmy will be able to do the whole original sequence for 3.0 if he gets Poita’s scan or something. The wipes really did look a little bit different originally.

I really think the hall extension looks near perfect in 2.5. Is it more the resolution than the rotoscoping that bugs you? Doesn’t seem to move out of place or anything like it did in 1.0. But again, it’s the same issue where the whole shot would suffer if I don’t rotoscope it in. And in this case, that’s a huge amount of footage to clean. So again I’ll leave the heavy lifting for Harmy. 😃

Though I’ve already rendered it, I could delay it if there’s something that ends up making a big enough difference. What are your suggestions?

I’ve tried a few others during that final battle (the main sequence using GOUT in 2.5), and found that Harmy has them worked nicer than I can do.

Wazzles said:

towne32 said:
I did also include many of the explosions in that battle from TN1’s SSE. I think they match better with the surrounding footage as I’ve graded it, and I previously avoided touching the explosions because other colors would get messed up. Every single frame has so many things going on. And I used their ion torpedo closeup.

Your coloring and the high definition footage make the compositing less obvious. Nice work.

Thanks. But I was actually unclear. Most of those explosion shots are basically untouched from TN1. But the resulting shot works better with some of the less green grading I have going. Much of the sequence looks pretty nice as they have it.

Since there was a shot in my last release that uses a purely GOUT based clip from Harmy’s v2.0, because I couldn’t get the color working in his 2.5 version of that shot, he suggested I use TN1’s release. It was this shot: http://i.imgur.com/WCyEHfB.jpg

So, I have. Thanks TN1.

I did some extra manual and automatic cleanup and stabilization, and did my best to match the color, contrast, grain, and sharpness to surrounding shots.

But then I had to keep tinkering. So I did the same for the shots of Luke preparing to board his X-wing, as Harmy used the purely GOUT based shots that were available when he was making 2.5.

And then I did the same for some of the model shots of the Battle of Yavin. I didn’t mess with anything that Harmy rotoscoped or used 35mm stills for, just the purely GOUT shots. And not all of them. He is sometimes able to get the GOUT looking better than I can get 35mm. And his starfields look great.

I did also include many of the explosions in that battle from TN1’s SSE. I think they match better with the surrounding footage as I’ve graded it, and I previously avoided touching the explosions because other colors would get messed up. Every single frame has so many things going on. And I used their ion torpedo closeup.

New gallery: http://imgur.com/a/0wgUJ

I was making a joke too. 😦

Darth Lucas said:

I don’t know, but Harmy and Friends sounds like a show I’d want to watch.

One hour ago: http://originaltrilogy.com/announcement/Team-Negative1/id/48366/page/5

Darth Lucas said:

Agreed. We can have collaboration without creating organizations.

Spoke too soon?!?!?