titanic

@jolennon

I know about this, but they didn't correct the error I mentioned (the wrong placement of the titles)

@doctorM

You have The Great Mouse Detective twice..

about Saludos Amigos: it's in HD on itunes I think, with no problems..

(and uncut!)

about beauty and the Beast:

Are you talking about SPorv's release?

It's not in the works, it has been released for quite some time.

Although I have asked him and would be interested very much in the unfiltered preservation of the Laserdisc, which seems to be much better than the previous LD rip (I think molly's).

Doctor M said:

@titanic - SOME Disney films, particularly the 'B' films (less popular) have more grain and look better on BD.  The guide needs some updating in that regards.

What movies are you thinking about?

 Well, the most popular ones.. (Pinocchio, Dumbo, Cinderella, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, SLeeping Beauty, Jungle Book, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, etc. etc.)

From what it seems the only ones I could buy on Bluray, that  haven't been over-restored and retain grain are:

-The Rescuers

-The Rescuers down under

-The Great Mouse Detective

isn't that right?

I could get The little mermaid, but I don't want to because it has an error with the titles and it makes me furious (the misplacement of the main title which is out of sync with a music effect)

Also, i could get Fox and the Hound, but I want the full screen of the DVD.

So, other than those I don't see anything else..

also, i guess I could buy all the Blurays from Pocahontas and on, right?

Since they were digital or something..

At least I have the HD version of the unrestored Sword in the Stone, and Saludos Amigos, which are great.

Just wanted to say I'm getting a headache trying every time to find the best version of a Disney film.

This guide is very helpful indeed, but I just wish Disney had offered the original un-restored films with grain on Bluray. :-(

it is so frustrating..

These are among my favourite films.

Haven't seen them for years due to these problems.

Sometimes, i want  to go "Oh, f..k  it" and get all the Blurays instead, but I can't, knowing how messed up they are..

And I really love grain. Especially in animation too.

The DVD changes were also in the VHS?

I have it but can't remember..

I wonder if the extra scenes will have an extra score by John Williams!

There is also another guy that says he has it, although with French subtitles:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/far-and-away-ABC-Network-TV-Version/topic/8570/

Posting a comparison pic between LaserDisc 1 that we had, and the current LaserDisc rip:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/86496

Doctor M said:

titanic said:

Screenshot comparisons of Ichabod release (Bluray Vs. DVD):

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/85922/picture:0

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/85924

 Huh.  I'd swear they didn't scrub all the grain, but what is with the color changes?  I'm not sure what's right.

 well, you know Disney. Hell would be frozen when they decide to leave a film intact (grain, colors, aspect ratio etc.)

I don't know what colors are right but I love the DVD's.

The sky looks much better while in the Bluray it leans toward teal!!

Screenshot comparisons of Ichabod release (Bluray Vs. DVD):

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/85922/picture:0

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/85924

The film is also in Cinemageddon and PTP, as an avi file of approx. 790MBs.

Duration: 1.13.50''

Doctor M said:

Wow, just wow.  Your source is just a steaming pile, isn't it.

I cannot believe what you got out of it.

Now I'm curious about the grain that was present in the other screenshot:

It certainly doesn't look like it came from the source.  Is that some sort of debanding addgrain sort of thing going on?

Don't get me wrong, I like grain, but it's too fine to have been present in the raw capture.

(And yes, I was calling you Catman, since copy-pasta-ing your username gets old fast.)

 Isn't this my screenshot?

I added the grain as an experiment..

I would still be interested _,,,^..^,,,_ in your original LD capture if you can find a chance to upload it. ;-)

RU.08 is interested too so that makes 2 of us.. :-)

I'm sure, that once uploaded there will be more that will be interested too..

Every Disney Classic animation!

And first of all, Beauty and the Beast!

This is coming in a new release from Scream Factory!

mj0012 said:

There's a PAL DVD version up over on Rutracker. I think they still have open registration.

 Yes, I have it.

But I thought maybe the Laserdisc and/or TCM broadcast is better...

Just bumped this thread in case anyone would be interested in a preservation of this wonderful film, either from laserdisc or a TCM broadcast..

well, I'm not sure how to explain it. I think when you'll see the full Bluray you'll see it.

If you can see those 2 Gaston screenshots and go back and forth between them and draw your attention to a specific spot eg. the tree on the right.

In the original the backgrounds are sometimes blurry, so as to create different depth levels, but with the filter they aren't blurry anymore.. This effect is lost.

By the way, did you see the photos in full? (right click and view image)

drngr said:

The sharpened version still has no texture. The character cells may end up just "cleaned", but the painted backgrounds get smeared away by DNR. The brushstrokes on the brick walls are gone.

titanic said:

while grainless animation films remind me of cheap TV or direct to video animations.

Irony: Hunchback of Notre Dame vs DTV sequel.

 I don't understand!

The sequel has more grain than the first film itself! hehehe

how can that be?

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

I agree that HDTV version seems better - I like its color grading better; but IMHO it's more due to the fact that BD is softer, and seems out of focus... just a proper sharpening (that is not harmful as when used with film), a ColourMatching touch (to get the HDTV color grading) and you should admit it's better than before...

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/84474

even if it still lacks a bit of detail in comparison to HDTV, almost surely a byproduct of excessive grain removal; but BD has more image on top and bottom...

What do you think?

 Well, it's better now, but you know my reply. Still I prefer the grainy one.

In the end, maybe there is no right or wrong answer, and it's purely a matter of taste.

I love grain in animation because it reminds me of "live-action" films while grainless animation films remind me of cheap TV or direct to video animations.

Between these 2, i certainly prefer (aesthetically) the 2nd!

http://i1.someimage.com/Vk94Vvc.png

http://i1.someimage.com/Rf0gP95.png

Look how the wall, or trees etc., gain texture with grain..

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

The fact is, the raw capture is 31GB, and it will take another ten days to upload... don't know how many will need this, though, even if now I'm pretty sure what you have in mind... "grained BATB, perhaps?!?" (-^,)

 No, I wouldn't add grain to the laserdisc rip.

it's just that in some points I like the filtered Bluray better, but in other points I like the raw rip too.

Ok, I understand.

Well,  if more people ask for it maybe you could consider it.

Also, maybe you could make it to mkv (eg. with handbrake) and reduce the file size to 6-10 Gbs. But i don't know if that would be a time consuming procedure, and wouldn't like to burdern you with more on this film, as you already did too much! :-)

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Then, with a quite good "polished" image, at first I thought to add a grain plate to it, but then I decided to not apply it, because it was not part of the animation "soul"... did I take the right decision?

 Not all people love grain. It's a matter of taste.

Then i guess you did good.

I see that you're asking about this, obviously reading my comment on the BATB thread.

Well, adding grain to an already processed video is not very good, so you took the right decision in that regard. But I said I'll add grain  just to fake a filmic experience.

Of course the ideal would be to have a 35mm film reel of the film to preserve, and in that situation, a removal of grain would be sacrilege to me!

I'm sorry again if I ask too much (as I've said BATB is my favourite animation film of all time), but would it be a possibility in the near future to upload the raw rip of the Laserdisc too as you captured it?

We have Molly's preservation of course, but yours (from a quick comparison I did) is much better, and it would be great to have this too for archival purposes..

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

*************************************************************

An important, philosophical question: do the grain should be preserved in animation?

I mean, grain was part of live action films since the beginning (even if today's digital camera do not have it, but this should be discussed in another thread), and movie as medium cannot exist without grain... animation, on the other hand, was not "born" with grain, but grain was a "forced" consequence of animation transferred on film... so, to me, grain should not be part of animation; do you agree?

 well, I don't agree.

Grain is part of a film.

And since we're watching animation films and not just moving pictures, we should see them with the grain, as they were originally released in theaters.

Also to me, aesthetically, grain gives life to a film.

A comparison of the HDTV version of Aristocats to the Bluray, shows this evidently! The BLuray seems flat and lifeless.

Look at the Thunderbean restoration of Gulliver's travels!

It's exquisite preserving the grain!

Doctor M said:

@Spaced Ranger - That's the first I've heard of a DVD release with Deems Taylor.  I'll update the first page, but has anyone here actually seen the 'outside the U.S.' release?

 I have a Greek PAL DVD of Fantasia under Walt Disney Classics banner, but it doesn't have Deems Taylor narration!

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

There is a custom BD-50 of it in circulation.

Not sure about the need of a such big size... a [spoRv] version, with 5 languages and subtitles, with a good average bitrate (25-30mbps) to retain all the grain, will fit in a BD-25...

 It's 29GB in size.
6 languages, 6 subtitles and 25mbps bitrate.