Well, I don’t speak Japanese, but this is a great find nonetheless!

G&G-Fan said:

The Emperor’s insistence on being there to witness the Rebellion’s defeat is a form of unintentional self-sabotage.

He spent his whole life on this conquest for power, and when he finally gets it… there’s no thrill. He spends all day sitting in a chair. How boring is that? He needs to put himself in positions where he can get a new high off of showing off his power.

That’s why he needs to be there for the Battle of Endor. He needs that high, because otherwise he’s just feels empty. And it’s ultimately his undoing.

No, he’s there because he wants to ensure the Rebellion falls for his trap.

Mon Mothma said:

But most important of all, we’ve learned that the Emperor himself is personally overseeing the final stages of the construction of this Death Star.

His presence is the final piece of bait that draws the entire fleet into attacking immediately.

I remember thinking that a lot of the TFA behind-the-scenes stuff was Abrams talking about them constantly asking themselves if something was sufficiently Star Wars. Villeneuve is not wrong that a certain codification has sadly set in to most SW productions - and it’s a tricky line to walk. On the one hand, surely that mindset is part of the problem with the Sequels. On the other hand, you can’t tell me the art department for Andor isn’t asking some version of that question.

And besides, ROTJ has been agreed by most everyone to be the weakest of the OT for some time, and the Ewoks is one of the most commonly cited examples of the problems. I didn’t start this reply thinking I’d bring in my own pet project, but it’s relevant; the storyboards for ROTJ that involve Ewoks are often more compelling and exciting than the actual resulting footage, and I think a lot of it comes down to the fairly inexpressive faces of the Ewok costumes. I do not think they lived up to the intentions of the team making the movie, and Harrison Ford’s goofy tone in those scenes doesn’t help.

That’s certainly an interesting idea. I think it’s been demonstrated pretty well that something like a “What the Special Edition should have been” aesthetic is certainly doable (https://youtu.be/s8q5Jf0BP4Q comes to mind specifically) using modern techniques.

Mocata said:

I feel like there are some other threads around that had information on this. Though perhaps it was through comics depicting war against Mandalore or ancient Sith or whatever. Unless by “supposed to” do you mean old George ideas?

From the OT category Index post: The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe

The Rebel Attack

Spaceship Shots That Are Not In The Final Film

• RA 1 is Lando’s view of the Shield Generator explosion. I’m not convinced this is needed, but the idea seems extremely cool to me
• RA 3, 4 & 5 are not yet available in their final storyboard form, but they probably showed the Falcon and Wedge heading towards the Death Star
• The videomatic previz suggests some of RA 7-10 would be cockpit and exterior shots of the fighters on their way to the DS
• I suspect some portion of 7-10, 11, & 13 are effects shots for viewscreens in the control room as Jerjerrod realizes he must follow the Emperor’s orders and blow up the Endor moon. Fixing that sequence up to high quality is almost certainly impossible, but I’d love to see someone try.
• RA 52 shows the B-Wings divebombing the Super Stardestroyer
• Is this a real storyboard? Probably RA 53 or 54.
• RA 55 is in the movie, but it ought to be B-Wings instead!
• Once the SSD’s conning tower dome is out, a group of fighters makes a run down the ship’s center trench towards the bridge. We have some of the storyboards for this: 62, 63, 67 (which is in the final film), 69, & 72, with the rest of the sequence (the A-Wing crashing into the bridge) appearing in the final film. Missing is probably an in-cockpit view of the conning tower rushing towards camera. Interestingly, there’s a missing shot (RA 76) in between the conning tower explosion and the SSD starting to sink. I have no idea what could possibly go there!
• This is probably the ancestor of RA 92
• This Falcon vs TIE Interceptors Action would fit between RA 80 & 81 and integrate with the footage of the Falcon’s gunners. In particular, some of the shots of the gunners are lit with harsh, bright exterior lights; I think these are intended to be inside the Death Star.

Shots we can not possibly reproduce

• RA 39: Wedge’s scope is gone!

Shots in the final film that are missing something

• See the initial post (and Neverar’s great point) for RA 78.
• I have never found the final version of RA 79 to be very satisfying.
• Does the slightly different angle and its effect on the prominence of the ceiling explain why the Endor moon is missing from RA 93?
• If you think about the geometry of the whole thing, RA 105 really should have the Endor moon visible.

The Space Battle

“Finishing” the Space Battle would best be done using the last sequence of events (generally the right hand column on my site’s page for these scenes). It would require a lot of CG model animation, but that is more or less the point of this thread.

Spaceship shots that are not in the final film

• SB 5: A very exciting pan through the entire Rebel Fleet as they head for Endor
• [SB 11](https://macrobinoculars.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/sb11-100-1.jpg: The Rebels begin to peel away
• SB 16: The Rebel Fleet fleeing from the Death Star’s shield
• SB 33: X-Wing, TIE, A-Wing & Y-Wing action around a Corvette
• SB 34 is as-yet lost
• SB 35: More of the A-Wing & Y-Wing action
• SB 36: Although at least one Y-Wing is destroyed on screen in the final film, it doesn’t match this.
• SB 40: Fits right in the middle of a sequence that did make it into the final film
• SB 50: We only have a tiny, grainy picture of this, but it’s the view out the Falcon’s cockpit as they turn towards the Imperial Fleet
• SB 58: What a terrible picture! But it looks like it’s the Rebel Fleet beginning their engagement with the Imperial Fleet.
• SB 61: An establishing shot of the two fleets in full contact, with a Starcruiser being destroyed by the Imperial Fleet.
• SB 62-73ish: A long sequence involving B-Wings. There’s not much material available for this, and listing it all on this post seemed like a bit much (as if the whole thread weren’t, lol).
• SB 67: This shot is actually in the final film, and has an effects code of SB 76. But it sure looks like, if you removed Lando, Nien Nunb, & the Falcon cockpit, you’d end up with something close to the original SB 76.
• SB 75 is the the predecessor to SB 76, which features the Falcon flying down the side of a Stardestroyer.
• SB 77: Conning tower, Interceptor, X-Wings
• SB 80-89 are all about a Y-Wing pilot’s heroic demise. 81 is in the final film, we have terrible photos of 82, 83, & 84, differing versions of 85, while 86 is a TIE pilot, 87 is that pilot’s view, 88 shows his victim, and 89 shows his demise.

Shots not in the final film that require actors

• SB 7: Gray Leader reporting in
• SB 25: It’d be amazing if the Lost Rebels footage could somehow be colorized, but failing that you’d need an A-Wing cockpit
• SB 37: A-Wing pilot says farewell to his wingmate, I guess (see SB 36 above)
• SB 51: This is Ackbar, in front of his big window, with additional dialogue about moving to engage the Imperial Fleet.
• SB 86 & 88 (see above)

Shots in the final film that are missing something

• SB 12: Famously missing any fighters crashing into the shield
• SB 21: This is a weird shot since it’s dated to January 1983, yet has an effects code which would have been assigned in the summer of 82, yet it’s missing from photos in November 82 that show the whole lineup… Anyway, the final film has this shot, but the Cruiser is totally missing.
• SB 48: Final version of this shot is much less dynamic, and lacks the Falcon entirely
• SB 72: Something very much like this is in the final film, but there’s no B-Wing and they’ve added the Falcon.

The Ground Battle

There is a list of shots which were omitted from the final Ground Battle. They are shots GB 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 30, 40, 41, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 54, 55, 56, 60. Unfortunately, I have never found any storyboards for these shots. The rest of the Ground Battle shots appear pretty much as planned. So, there’s nothing for fan editors to finish without shooting entirely new material based on the pre-filming storyboards. I guess if you have some trooper costumes, and some Ewok costumes, and access to some beautiful California forest, you could do something, but we really don’t need extra Ewok glider action. That’s a tall order, unlikely to happen, and in my opinion not worth doing.

But I felt like this thread would be incomplete if I didn’t explicitly say so.

NeverarGreat said:

One other reason they may have chosen to reuse the same angle for the Ackbar reaction could be some version of the ‘180 degree’ rule. As in, showing the underside of the SSD may have been disorienting to viewers.

There is also the consideration that we know that Ackbar is viewing the SSD from that angle in a previous shot. To show the underside of the ship would require it to twist or flip over somehow, rather than simply falling down out of frame like it does in the film.

That’s a very good point; I forgot about the previous establishing shot of Ackbar’s view, which is dated August 13, 1982.

The Rotating Death Star

Anyone who’s paid close attention to this movie knows that we mostly only see one view of the Death Star, despite the fact that they built a very big and intricate model of the Death Star that allowed them to shoot it from a variety of angles. Consider the following storyboards from the Tydirium’s approach to Endor.

Nov 16, 82	Dec 3, 82	Feb 15, 83

I’m presenting them out of the order they appear in the film to highlight their revision dates. Even after the Black Friday cuts, the Death Star is still being shown from a side view - but when a storyboard gets revised in February, 1983, only 3 months before the movie needs to be in theaters, the Death Star is now only being shown from that one angle. It seems that only showing the Death Star from one side was probably a time and money saving shortcut, and this issue exists throughout the film.

The Size of the Rebel Fleet

Throughout the film, the Rebel Fleet has been greatly reduced in size. Consider IH 1

and compare it with its final form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A6PTCf6dVc

There are certainly less ships. Or consider RF 1, the first time we see the Rebel Fleet.

This one surprises me, because the storyboard was revised in mid-November, as part of the Black Friday cuts, yet the final shot is very different from the concept. Instead of seeing a long view, stretching “as far as the eye can see”, we’re given a 3/4ths view that shows a few ships but obscures the size of the Fleet. Was this done because it looked better in some way, or just because it was easier & quicker to shoot? We can never know, but I’d bet on the latter.

This issue is found throughout the Space Battle and I’ll do my best to note it in later posts.

As I think I’ve demonstrated on my Return of the Jedi Storyboard site, not to mention others’ work in threads like ROTJ’s Black Friday, the post-production process for ROTJ was rushed and featured multiple rounds of cuts to the finale due to problems with the special effects combined with budget and time constraints.

This issue, of course, is sometimes difficult to separate from cuts and alterations that were made for other reasons, and even when we can say pretty confidently that a change was made for unfortunate reasons, we can’t separate subsequent decisions from those changes, etc etc - an “original vision” of ROTJ is impossible to truly reconstruct.

Nonetheless, some things can be confidently labelled as unfinished. A clear example of this is effects shot RA 78. The previous shot, RA 77, shows Vader’s Super Stardestroyer careening out of control towards the Death Star.

The following shot, RA 78, should then show Admiral Ackbar watching this from his command ship, seeing the underside of the SSD from a different angle.

But look what happens in the final film!
https://youtu.be/sMqR0ANOSVM?t=33

First, it’s worth noting that the SSD has been mirrored from the original storyboards. I don’t know why, and this is one of those changes that we can’t really explain. It’s also not important, IMHO. Careful examination of the SSD as it falls shows that both its conning tower domes (which some call shield generators) are intact - this is probably because they only modeled the battle damage on the huge conning tower model seen in the closeups, and left the SSD model untouched, figuring that it wouldn’t be noticeable.

But the big, glaring thing is that they just reused the RA 77 footage for Ackbar’s view in RA 78, instead of shooting a second view of the ship burning from below. They’ve even added an explosion in space (please note that there’s nothing actually there that explodes. Just…an explosion) to provide some explanation (though its on the wrong side of his head) for the flashses which were originally supposed to come from the engine exploding. Making the shot as intended would probably have required building a separate, larger model of just that corner of the SSD and its the engines, for burning, plus all the work of filming that element. Taking a short cut is very understandable, given the crunch the production was under - but today’s fans are not in such a crunch.

I am going to do my best in this thread to catalog other unfinished shots that skilled modelers, CG artists, etc could potentially complete. I do not, myself, have the skills to do any of this work, and I have no idea if anyone out there will ever have any interest in attempting this kind of thing… but I figured I’d put it out there as an open invitation and challenge.

I have completed a huge update to the site.

https://macrobinoculars.wordpress.com/

It now features storyboards for the entire movie, not just Act 3. There are also numerous additions to the original reason for the whole site: The Space Battle & Rebel Attack sequences.

There are a few more things to add, such as a good way to just see all the raw storyboards without the script and my commentary, but I figured this was a big enough update to post.

Fruit672 said:

timdiggerm said:

Are you trying to convince industry professionals to send you high quality scans which are now the property of Disney?

Eh, worth a shot. And still, the comics from 1984, it should be in the public domain by now…

Morally, maybe, but definitely not legally 😦

Are you trying to convince industry professionals to send you high quality scans which are now the property of Disney?

Thanks for this. I forgot how good this movie looks most of the time.

Also interesting to see how clearly it frames Padme as the protagonist… unfortunately, some of her potential depth in the film is spoiled by attempting to maintain the surprise of her double identity.

I stumbled across this old document from 1995

https://www.cedmagic.com/featured/star-wars-lost-footage.html

It’s mostly concerned with documenting the differences between the mono & stereo audio versions of SW77, and providing a transcript of the contents of the deleted Biggs scenes (which basically no one had ever seen at the time). There are even some great bits of people having false memories towards the end of the document, much like the classic “my memory isn’t that bad, is it?” thread. The grappling hook legend is even mentioned on a different page!

It’s also a good example of what the Internet and fan culture were like back then. Concerned with many of the same things, but publishing in a very different format.

Channel72 said:

I hate Messianic prophecies in general, or the very idea of a Messiah, because it encourages the idea that all hope for the future is dependent on one dude, instead of like, the group effort that is required in real life.

Granted, Star Wars doesn’t incorporate a true Messiah into the mythology. Vader is more like a very round-about Messiah who only saves the Universe after he fucks over the entire Universe. So it’s at least a twist on the idea of a Messiah, kind of like Dune. But I still don’t like it, because it shrinks the Universe by elevating one guy to cosmic significance. At one point, Luke was just a random farmboy and Vader was just a cyborg SS officer carrying out the will of his government. There was a backstory intertwining the two of them, but it was personal, not a matter of cosmic importance.

This, of course, gets into the whole “myth” side of Star Wars. Like it or not, a messiah of some kind is a well-established archetype that really speaks to people.

I can’t believe I’ve never thought to ask (which probably means I did, or at least someone else): Any plans to fix the “DS II always faces the right towards the camera” problem?

Bingowings said:

collars

It’s an older code, sir, but it checks out.

So glad to hear you’re feeling better!

Those comparisons are incredible. It’s like they ran a grayscale filter over the DSII or something.

(As for the rest of the film, I will just be over here chanting “Prune face! Prune face!” in the corner)

D0rca said:

imsorrydave2448 said:

CamSMurph said:

I see TN1 was banned from the site. Why is that?

Because the stole a scan of Star Wars A New Hope.

Holy cow, really? I thought tn1 was one of the reputable people on here. That’s a real shame because I would be really interested in this project.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Why-was-this-user-banned-thread/id/54235/page/1#1165751

See the replies immediately after that post.

Hal 9000 said:

Why make this available only for a limited time?

This like Disney putting movies “in the vault” just to build hype & demand back in the day, only without the existing demand, reputation for quality, name recognition, etc.

Plus, anyone who receives the files can just distribute them as soon as he says it’s no longer available.

I doubt this is it, but have you considered https://youtu.be/M2A-LNQK4Z4?si=tYHQ2VVLDPhayr4b ?

I posted this in The Cantina, but I guess it could go here too

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/arts/star-wars-films-george-lucas.html

Includes a member of TN-1 going on the record with his name, and a link to this site.