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thxita

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4-Oct-2010
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29-Oct-2024
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Post
#512427
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

The green might have been a later addition after Star Wars green LUCASFILM LTD. opening (before it was substituted by the new flashy version). This theory could be argumented with the fact that any green lettering in THX seems to be seen only in versions "after" 1977 (being the Italian version from 1976 with white letters).

It's only a random thought ;-)

Post
#510948
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Have you got any screens of the menu? I'm just very curious to see them but I won't download the film from MySpleen just yet, I'll wait for the DVD to be delivered to me because I've watched that film too many times lately and it's not a novelty to me lol. Glad others can finally enjoy it though!

Subtitles issue is not a problem. I'm sure anyone can press the subs button on their DVD player. Better than forced subtitles anyway!

Post
#510746
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Msycamore, perhaps in this list

* 1971 Original Theatrical Release - approx.81 min
* 1976 Italian Cut - approx.81 min
* 1978 Restored Cut - approx.86 min
* 1978 German TV-Broadcast - approx.86 min
* 2004 The George Lucas Director's Cut - approx.88 min

we might put the format in which they were released), something like

* 1971 Original Theatrical Release - approx.81 min (cinema)
* 1976 Italian Cut - approx.81 min (VHS)
* 1978 Restored Cut - approx.86 min (VHS, Laserdisc, Betamax...)
* 1978 German TV-Broadcast - approx.86 min (???)
* 2004 The George Lucas Director's Cut - approx.88 min (DVD, Blu-ray)

 

Speaking of which, where would we put the 16mm version in possession of SilverWook? Is that the same of the German-TV broadcast? Is there a way to date that 16mm reel?

Post
#510745
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Looks like wild subtitling to me but I should check the scene again. I leave the answer to others

SilverWook said:

I have a plugin for firefox that does that. It saved as a 4 meg mp4 file. It's kind of blocky full screen though.

Maybe ask the guy who posted it nicely, and we could get a better copy?

And if anyone here is going after that 16mm print, now is a good time to speak up. ;)

My girlfriend would kill me if I buy anything like that, sorry Silver. Are you going for it? I was thinking, when the project is completed and if it's fine with msycamore we might suggest people who download this to leave a donation at their discretion in order to partially refund you for the expenses you put upfront to retrieve such rarieties. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't have known the extended SEN scene ever made it to video in English.

Post
#510257
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

All ok although I want to hear from Leo first about edizione italiana a cura di Claudio Razzi translated as "Italian edition edited by Claudio Razzi".

"Edited" sounds too much as if he actually decided for the editing of the movie while "a cura" only means he was responsable for the dubbing. We either just say "by Claudio Razzi" or "curated by Claudio Razzi" (?). Leo what's your thought on this?

 

Nice spotting SilverWook!

Post
#508726
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Msycamore, at the moment I can't access the film but before putting this stuff in you should check if the dubbing was indeed made by CDC. I went by memory there but could even just be "CD" or another company. It's either in the titles at the beginning or in the ones at the very end.

Look for the word "doppiaggio" or "voci"

Post
#508725
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Love it.

Here's the corrected stuff from Leo. Some of the English part has also been checked ;-)

 

- The different versions of THX 1138 –

- Le differenti versioni di THX 1138 -

 


When THX 1138 was originally released in 1971, it was in a hacked apart - 81 minutes long version after the studio Warner Bros had taken the film away from George Lucas and cut 4-5 minutes from it without Lucas' approval, mostly scenes in the "white limbo" and some of the film’s bizarre humor were taken out. According to a furious Lucas in '71, Warner had also changed parts of the films sound design by Walter Murch. This original theatrical release version has never been available on video.

Quando il film “THX 1138” uscì per la prima volta nel 1971 era in una versione ridotta a 81 minuti dopo il taglio di 4-5 minuti imposto a George Lucas dalla Warner Bros. Gran parte dei tagli riguardano le scene del “limbo”, ma anche parte dell’humor bizzarro presente nel film venne rimosso. Secondo quanto dichiarato da un arrabbiato Lucas in una intervista del ’71, la Warner alterò anche parte degli effetti sonori di Walter Murch. Questa prima versione del film non fu mai resa disponibile in nessun formato home video.


Even though "THX 1138" was released in UK and France in 1971, it wasn't released in Italy until 1976, then under the title "L'uomo Che Fuggì Dal Futuro", literally translated: "The Man Who Escaped From The Future". How much this cut resembles the "Warner Bros-cut" released five years earlier in terms of editing is hard to tell, but both cuts are approximately 81 minutes in length. The editing is much different than what we would later see in the "restored cut," besides having many scenes missing obviously, the most significant differences are:

Sempre nel 1971 “THX 1138” uscì anche nei cinema di Francia e Regno Unito, ma fu distribuito in Italia solo nel 1976 con il titolo “L’Uomo che Fuggì dal Futuro”. E’ difficile a dirsi quanto la versione italiana possa rassomigliare la versione cinematografica del ’71, ma è interessante notare come entrambe siano lunghe approssimativamente 81 minuti. Il montaggio differisce notevolmente dalla successiva “versione restaurata” del ’78 e, senza considerare le scene inedite, le differenze più importanti sono le seguenti:

* The film opens with a segment of the chase sequence from the end of the film narrated by THX himself complete with an added background story in place over the title sequence, it's like it sort of trying to tell the whole film as it was projected through THX mind, a flashback or perhaps like THX himself describes it in the narration "I want to leave a telepathic message so that posterity will know my real story..." Oddly enough the narration is never picked up in the film ever again.

* Il film comincia con la sequenza finale del film, la scena dell’inseguimento, narrata da THX stesso. La narrazione prosegue durante i titoli di testa e ci descrive gli antefatti della storia, un po’ come se l’intero film fosse una proiezione mentale del protagonista, un flashback o forse un messaggio telepatico, come suggerito dallo stesso THX durante la sua narrazione: “Voglio lasciare un messaggio telepatico perché i miei posteri possano conoscere la mia vera storia”. Curiosamente la voce narrante non viene più adottata durante tutto il resto del film.

* The scenes where LUH visit THX in detention where they make love and the medical examinations of THX, both occur before we see his trial, which makes the context of the scenes and the following scenes leading up to him being put in prison quite different. What is interesting is that this is the order the scenes appear in the shooting draft, which suggests that this may not have been an editing decision made by Warner after all, if this actually was presented this way in the '71 theatrical release that is.

* La scena di LUH  che visita THX nel centro di detenzione e successivo atto sessuale e la sequenza degli esami medici a cui THX è sottoposto sono entrambe montate prima del processo, il che altera notevolmente il contesto di queste e delle seguenti scene che precedono la prigionia del protagonista. E’ interessante notare come l’ordine di queste scene sia identico a quello presente nel copione utilizzato durante le riprese, questo suggerisce come la Warner possa non essere la responsabile di queste scelte di montaggio dopotutto, sempre supponendo che la versione cinematografica del ’71 fosse così montata.  

* SEN's conversation with the children is slightly longer.
 
Besides the different editing, the Italian dubbing is sometimes very poor with translation errors in a few places, making the plot confusing in some parts. In addition to the previously mentioned opening narration, the dubbing also alters the story and plot in many other ways throughout the film, sometimes new concepts are added to the film and sometimes the dialogue is just completely different. Much of the editing is probably a reflection of the "Warner Bros-cut", but the story differences and concepts that occur in the dubbing are more likely liberties taken by "Società Italiana Distribuzione Films" which was the distributor for it in Italy, or by the “CDC”, the dubbing company that worked on the film. This was oddly enough the only version available on video in Italy until the "2004-Director's Cut" was released and replaced it, this time the dubbing was more faithful to the source material. In conclusion, George Lucas' "restored cut" was never released in Italy.

* La conversazione tra SEN e i bambini è più lunga.

Oltre che a un montaggio differente, la versione italiana presenta un doppiaggio italiano a tratti molto mediocre con svariati errori di traduzione che rendono confusi alcuni punti della trama. Senza contare la sopra citata narrazione sui titoli di testa del film, il doppiaggio altera la trama in diversi altri modi durante tutta la durata della pellicola, talvolta aggiungendo nuovi fantasiosi concetti, altre volte cambiandone radicalmente i dialoghi. Molte delle scelte di montaggio rispecchiano probabilmente la prima versione cinematografica della Warner ma i dialoghi, insieme ai concetti alterati con il doppiaggio, sono stati probabilmente libere scelte della Società Italiana Distribuzione Films o della stessa CDC che ha curato il doppiaggio. E’ curioso notare che questa versione del film era l’unica disponibile per home video in Italia fino all’edizione DVD del 2004 che l’ha soppiantata. Per l’edizione DVD il film è stato ridoppiato con un adattamento dei dialoghi fedele all’originale. In conclusione, la “versione restaurata” di Lucas non è mai uscita in Italia.


It wasn't until 1978, after George Lucas' enormous success with Star Wars the previous year that Lucas was able to finally re-release it for a limited time in a fully restored cut. This version restored the 4-5 min of previously cut scenes, making it approximately 86 minutes in length. It was later released on video rental in 1982. This version was widely available on Betamax, VHS and Laserdisc through the 80's and 90's, the last release was on VHS in 1996, it has not yet been released on any new video formats.

Solo nel 1978, l’anno successivo all’incredibile successo di Guerre Stellari, George Lucas riuscì finalmente a far proiettare nei cinema, per un periodo limitato, una versione interamente restaurata di "THX 1138". In questa versione vennero ripristinati i 4-5 minuti precedentemente tagliati via dalla Warner così allungandone la durata fino a un totale di circa 86 minuti. Nel 1982 questa versione si rese disponibile per videonoleggio e durante gli anni ’80 e ’90 venne pubblicata su VHS, Betamax e Laserdisc, con l’ultima uscita in VHS nel 1996, ma ad oggi non è reperibile in nessun nuovo formato video.


A German TV-broadcast and an American/English 16mm print have revealed that yet another version exists, it is basically identical to the "Restored Cut" but it includes the slightly longer scene when SEN is talking with the children and the same re-ordering of scenes seen in the Italian version.

I passaggi televisivi su canali tedeschi e una versione americana/inglese su pellicola 16mm del film hanno rivelato l’esistenza di un’ulteriore versione del film. Questa risulta praticamente identica alla “versione restaurata”, ma con l’aggiunta della scena estesa di SEN che parla con i bambini e lo stesso montaggio visto nella versione italiana.


Finally in 2004, a new version was released in theatres for a short limited time and released on DVD and later Blu-ray under the banner "The George Lucas Director's Cut", which is a rather silly title when he already had basically released his director's cut in 1978. Anyway, this version is approximately 88 minutes in length, using alternate takes, has a much different editing which even alters the story in subtle ways, utilizing modern CGI etc. Lucas even let new footage be shot and even reshot several scenes using computer systems to insert the actors and replace existing footage. While interesting in its own way, this is the only version currently available on modern video formats.

Quando nel 2004 una nuova versione del film vide una breve distribuzione cinematografica e poi l’uscita in DVD e successivamente in Blu-ray, questa fu presentata con l’indicazione “George Lucas Director’s Cut”, il che è al quanto contraddittorio considerando che già quella del 1978 era una “director’s cut”. Ad ogni modo questa versione del 2004, lunga circa 88 minuti, fa uso di riprese alternative e presenta un montaggio molto differente che altera leggermente la storia grazie anche all’uso della “computer grafica”. Lucas è anche arrivato al punto di girare delle nuove scene ed persino di rigirare alcune scene del film usando tecnologie informatiche per inserirci gli attori o sostituire intere sequenze. Seppur tutto questo può risultare di per se interessante, rimane pur sempre la sola versione disponibile in formati video moderni.

* 1971 Original Theatrical Release - approx.81 min
* 1976 Italian Cut - approx.81 min
* 1978 Restored Cut - approx.86 min
* 1978 German TV-Broadcast - approx.86 min
* 2004 The George Lucas Director's Cut - approx.88 min

* 1971 – Uscita cinematografica originale – circa 81 min
* 1976 – Versione italiana – circa 81 min
* 1978 – Versione restaurata – circa 86 min
* 1978 – Versione TV tedesca – circa 86 min
* 2004 – George Lucas Director's Cut – circa 88 min

Post
#508406
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

I'm sending my translated document to Leonardo for proof-reading. In the meanwhile let me correct you a couple of things:

Societa Italiana Distribuzione Films is the distributor who is surely responsable for the title but not for the dubbing and very unlikely responsable for the new concepts added. So I've added a line there:

Much of the editing is probably a reflection of the "Warner Bros-cut", but the story differences and concepts that occur in the dubbing is more likely liberties taken by "Societa Italiana Distribuzione Films" which was the distributor for it in Italy or by "CDC", the dubbing company that worked on the film.

There are a couple of typos here and there that I corrected (I know this only because I'm on my girlfriend's PC, using MS Word in English).

Ok I'm off to email Leonardo.

Post
#505221
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Also the idea of quartets of numbers is something that seem to come from this short. The only exception to Lucas' rule of four numbers is the "Order 666"... but the new series are harly a valid example aren't they?

Even the movement of the mechanic arms are identical to those of THX in the operating cell. I think we should consider putting this as an extra in the DVD.

Post
#505141
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

The guy that speaks before "give them the answer" is a different guy. Then "give them the answer... LUH destroyed etc" are spoken by a second person. I think he's saying those words as if saying "give them this answer: LUH 3417 etc" at least that's my interpretation (which would imply that LUH COULD actually be alive?). God knows what the they had in mind when they were dubbing it.

About how to write it down, the way it's spoken I would say:

"Give them the answer,"

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87..."

 

The download is not finished yet however from the parts that are complete, to be honest it looks identical to me, same pixels and everything (in case it wasn't clear, it IS the same broadcast from Tele+ channel, just bigger in pixels). The only thing I'm wondering is if the file was originally bigger and resized to the size you know or if it was around 600MB from the start and resized bigger later. Somehow I feel that my smaller file was the original as I don't see people making avi of nearly 1GB around 2004. Typical size was 600-700Mb

Post
#505122
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Well I got 25 on anatomy. I never really shine on oral exams and that was one tough son of a..., I'm just glad is behind now. I think it's worth a whopping 14.5 credits, I don't even count them anymore, lol... off-topic-ing as usual, sorry guys...

anyway, yes, perhaps without "of" it sounds better. We can now leave it to the real English speaking people, our job is done I believe. Thanks for the precious help as usual Leo. What are you doing with Mork & Mindy avatar?

Post
#505109
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Ok msycamore, you may change the lines

"Approaching expressway 300" with "Approaching expressway 3%" (there are two of them, one at the start and one at the end. A simple "search and replace" will do)

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87
Name reassigned to foetus 66691 on date 29/87." should be changed with

"LUH 3417 destroyed on date 21/87
and regenerated under the name of Foetus 66691 on date 29/87"

(Leo that's a translation of "rigenerata sotto il nome di Foetus 66691... etc, does it sound right to you as a translation? I'm asking because I'm totally fused after an exam at university, luckly it went well)

Post
#504112
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS TRILOGY "Partly Despecialized Edition" HD. !!! These version are now obsolete - Look for Despecialized Editions instead!!!
Time

Just found out about this (after reading your post on the THX thread). I'm amazed and very curious to see this version of the trilogy. The whole idea is something I also dreamt about doing.

Do you think you'll take HD material from the Blu-Ray when it will be released?

If you have a link for the three films I would be very thankful and very interested in watching them. Thank you