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theprequelsrule

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2-Jun-2011
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12-Aug-2020
Posts
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Post
#1308920
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.

A shame you didn’t just write the above in your opening post on the issue instead of the irrelevant and somewhat nonsensical dig at Disney you initially posted.

Star Wars has always tried to appeal to wish fulfillment fantasies of the young - and much more besides. I imagine that’s a considerable reason why many have became fans.

No offence taken.

A fair response, but look at the difference between Luke and Rey. In SW77 Luke loses his family, his mentor, and his best friend. So he gains “power”, like all children and teens wish, BUT AT A GREAT COST. Rey loses nothing (except respect for Luke Skywalker). Perhaps there is a thread of something in TLJ - she loses a belief that she is anyone special, right? But wait, she is super awesome with the force, so she actually is something special afterall. Huh? What?

Luke wants to learn about the ways of The Force - in part because his revered father did, he had nothing left on Tatooine after his family is killed - and in part because of the call to adventure.

Rey comes from nothing (apparently) - no family, no mentor, no friends - and no wish to have these powers within her that have awakened (in TFA). She wants to wait on Jakku for her ‘family’ to return to her. In fact she runs away from the call to adventure and the situation it has led her to (upon Luke’s lightsabre calling to her) and responsibilities that will entail - plus weight of them too.
 

The ‘super awesome with the force’ trope is something I just don’t see in Rey and what has occurred onscreen.

For me if she were ‘super awesome with the force’…

she would not have been so easily captured by Kylo upon her running away, needed to read to Kylo’s mind during her interrogation to learn some of these powers (or the mind-trick at least), nor lost the later fight vs Kylo before ‘letting the Force in’, Snoke wouldn’t be throwing her around like a ragdoll in his throneroom, nor have to have relied on Kylo betraying and killing Snoke to save her from execution, and she would not have needed to team up with Kylo to defeat the Imperial Guards after killing Snoke - something she struggled with during the fight. Pulling that 'sabre from Kylo wouldn’t be much of a problem either.

Her knowledge and understanding of The Force would also be better than it was in TLJ (and Luke training her and having to even explain the basics - ‘everything she just said was wrong’, y’know… 😉) - which again was far from ‘super awesome with the force’.

It would have been Rey who would have been her that saved the Resistance on Crait with her ‘super awesome with the force’ abilities to save or even defeat the FO - and not Luke sacrificing himself to buy them just enough time to escape with their lives to live another day…

Seems obvious to me Rey had total respect for Luke Skywalker - frustrated and confused why he wouldn’t leave the island and join her in the fight - sure. Yet full on respect for Luke is there - maybe viewing the end scenes of TLJ again will underline this.
 

As I’ve said before, this trilogy is incomplete… and we may well yet receive an explanation (or more understanding) of how Rey came to have that ‘Something inside me has always been there, but now it’s awake and I need help’, the dreams of familiar places etc, in TROS.
 

But Rey being ‘super awesome with the force’? No, that just hasn’t happened for me. YMMV.

 

Anyway, this is not a place to rehash previous circular and oft-repeated debates that have taken place in the TFA/TLJ or more relevant character threads etc - this thread is for discussing Episode IX itself; so let’s get back on topic.

We shall agree to (sort of) disagree and move on.

Post
#1308907
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

In my defense, I watched those episodes exactly once, six years ago.

Watch them again. They are good stuff.

Post
#1308905
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

Worf starts out a bit of a reluctant Federation citizen (Starfleet is probably the only viable option for him; where else does warfare take place in the Federation?), but in the end he forms of a synthesis of the two cultures. As does his son IIRC.

There is a lot of Klingon civilization we don’t see, but obviously great honor must go to those who design weapons and other tech associated with warfare - and so much science and tech (in real life too of course) is useful for warfare or was originally designed for warfare. You know, like the internet?

They are shown both in ST6 and other times in the various series to have an appreciation for art (music and drama in particular). Klingon cuisine, despite it’s appearance, is also canonically highly nutritious (and tasty!)

Wow, I never knew I was such a ST nerd!

Post
#1308904
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.

A shame you didn’t just write the above in your opening post on the issue instead of the irrelevant and somewhat nonsensical dig at Disney you initially posted.

Star Wars has always tried to appeal to wish fulfillment fantasies of the young - and much more besides. I imagine that’s a considerable reason why many have became fans.

No offence taken.

A fair response, but look at the difference between Luke and Rey. In SW77 Luke loses his family, his mentor, and his best friend. So he gains “power”, like all children and teens wish, BUT AT A GREAT COST. Rey loses nothing (except respect for Luke Skywalker). Perhaps there is a thread of something in TLJ - she loses a belief that she is anyone special, right? But wait, she is super awesome with the force, so she actually is something special afterall. Huh? What?

Post
#1308882
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.

Post
#1308877
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

Post
#1308876
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

When I think of a gray Jedi, I think of a Jedi who taps into emotions/utilizes powers commonly with the dark side whilst still remaining a hero with a strong sense of right & wrong — a very “light gray” Jedi, you could say. The PT Jedi in general are “medium gray”, with Windu “dark gray”. I’m not a fan of medium/dark gray Jedi, either, at least not as the rule.

In other words, the end justifies the means? Not too Star Warsy in my opinion Duracell, but you do have some support from the EU. Did not Zahn consider “mind tricks” to be a Darkside power?

Post
#1308872
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

Post
#1308868
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

This is the correct opinion. I wish they stayed like they were in the movies. The Undiscovered Country even showed an intellectual side of the Klingon people that I don’t think was ever explored in any of the TV series afterwards.

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

Also the bat’leth is stupid. It’s one of the most impractical weapons I’ve ever seen. The knife from The Search For Spock is a much better melee weapon for Klingon warriors.

Wrong. The Klingons represent a subversion of the so-called superiority of the Federation way of life.

Post
#1308862
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

I would’ve liked to see Luke become a gray Jedi. Too bad Lucas doesn’t believe in gray.

Duracell, my man, the Jedi are already Gray; and that is the problem! Gray as in “gray area” refers to beliefs that are moraly uncertain or questionable. Jedi are not supposed to be gray! They are on the right path in a galaxy that is gray or tilting to evil. The point of Han Solo’s character arc in SW77 is that he goes from gray to light/white, right? The extermination of the Jedi can only be a tragedy if they are the good guys, not the “gray” guys! Tell me you weren’t a little happy when they all got gunned down at the end of ROTS.

Post
#1308854
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

GlastoEls said:

Isn’t the whole point of the PT that the Jedi spend too much time worrying about nonsense and therefore took their eye off what was really important?

Not according to the PT-era Lucas IIRC. Frankly, I can’t imagine his younger self ever envisioning the Jedi like they are portrayed in the PT. And what is all this talk about anger and fear leading to the darkside that Yoda spouts off about? Anger and fear are often catalysts to great change for the better. Do you think that slavery didn’t anger the people who abolished it? Do you think fear of climate change is a bad thing? Yoda is a brilliantly portrayed character in ESB but I think his morals are questionable. And he gives Luke shit about his personality and hopes and dreams. Luke did destroy the Death Star right? You know, the thing that would have spelled “certain doom” to the Rebels. What did Yoda do other than hide out? Maybe if you lift X-Wings of the water you could have helped the Rebels in their struggle a little sooner. What a condescending little green prick!

Post
#1308829
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

SW77 was all about adventure and excitement - about taking risks and accepting outlandish ideas such as The Force. With ESB we get the exact opposite philosophy as expounded by Yoda. The natural result is the unrelatable and unlikable Jedi Order from the PT. So we have two different visions about what Star Wars is all about; that of a young George Lucas and Kershner’s take as expound in ESB.

Thoughts and/or objections?

Post
#1308680
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

One thing that I like about pre-STD Trek, especially in our modern world, is the way it depicts the Klingons; their system of values, though different from that of the Federation, is portrayed as one worthy of respect and containing many virtues. If TNG and DS9 were made today there would be some character (probably a woman) trying to show the Klingon’s the error of their ways.

Post
#1308500
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

My guess is, aside from the haters online

The Mandalorian & Jedi: Fallen Order show us there are no “haters”, only Star Wars Fans
https://youtu.be/OJ_tFpJy1Uk

Nope, wrong, uh-uh. There are only two camps — haters and True Fans™; there is no overlap, no third or fourth camps. True Fans™ love everything with the Star Wars brand name; True Fans™ love only George Lucas’ six-episode Saga, TCW, and Legends; True Fans™ love only George Lucas’ six-episode Saga and Legends; True Fans™ love only George Lucas’ six-episode Saga; True Fans™ love only the Original Trilogy and everything produced by Disney; True Fans™ love only the Original Original Trilogy; True Fans™ love only ANH & TESB; True Fans™ love only SW '77. Everyone who doesn’t love what True Fans™ love aren’t True Fans™; they’re just haters, and should be regarded with as much disdain and condescension as one can mustre.

+10000000000000 ❤ Keep fighting The Good Fight DE

Post
#1308495
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

mykyta-R4 said:

theprequelsrule said:

I’m so glad they made the ST. When I recently re-watched the OT I could not help but think “This doesn’t make any sense! Men can’t solve anything! Palpatine would never be defeated by a couple of stupid men. Only a SIW could possible defeat him!”

The circle is complete.

Mon Mothma and Leia do not exist for you in the Original Trilogy? They did not play large role in Rebellion which defeat Palpatine?

Only men? Huh.

With your post above, your narrow view is complete.

Leia is awesome of course; especially in SW77. Mon Mothma is nothing - her name not even spoken in the OT. You only get it in the credits. Why didn’t they just have Leia as the leader of the RA? She was positioned as such towards the end of SW77.