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theprequelsrule

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Join date
2-Jun-2011
Last activity
5-Dec-2019
Posts
671

Post History

Post
#1308969
Topic
Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’ve come to dislike the notion that Force-sensitivity is something which can be cloned. Like adding a strong hereditary component to the Force, or the midi-chlorian crap, it grounds what should be a spiritual power to genetics.

There is a real world precedent though; in the past it was felt that certain families were descended and/or favoured by God/The Gods/Fate - genetics was never on the table, rather people were “blessed” for some unknown reason.

I always liked the hereditary component as an addition to the spiritual side. The Force is somewhat accessible to everyone, but it runs stronger in certain bloodlines for reasons unknown…and that should remain unknown. You need to explain why everyone isn’t a force user after all, right Duracell?

I admit, I am partial to the idea of Force-sensitivity being matrilineal. Nine months (give-or-take for non-humans) would be time enough for a pregnant woman to form a rapport with the child growing in her womb, and that could impart her Force-sensitivity to it. That would allow for a hereditary component without compromising the transcendent qualities.

Sounds good to me. You have a lot of sensible and inspired ideas - I hope you keep working on those fan scripts you have posted here at OT.com. Maybe you can find an artist here in the community and turn them into comics or something?

That’s the dream. I would’ve commissioned George Perez to do it before his retirement if I had the money.

Don’t give up Duracell…no matter what.

Post
#1308965
Topic
Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’ve come to dislike the notion that Force-sensitivity is something which can be cloned. Like adding a strong hereditary component to the Force, or the midi-chlorian crap, it grounds what should be a spiritual power to genetics.

There is a real world precedent though; in the past it was felt that certain families were descended and/or favoured by God/The Gods/Fate - genetics was never on the table, rather people were “blessed” for some unknown reason.

I always liked the hereditary component as an addition to the spiritual side. The Force is somewhat accessible to everyone, but it runs stronger in certain bloodlines for reasons unknown…and that should remain unknown. You need to explain why everyone isn’t a force user after all, right Duracell?

I admit, I am partial to the idea of Force-sensitivity being matrilineal. Nine months (give-or-take for non-humans) would be time enough for a pregnant woman to form a rapport with the child growing in her womb, and that could impart her Force-sensitivity to it. That would allow for a hereditary component without compromising the transcendent qualities.

Sounds good to me. You have a lot of sensible and inspired ideas - I hope you keep working on those fan scripts you have posted here at OT.com. Maybe you can find an artist here in the community and turn them into comics or something?

Post
#1308963
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

Shopping Maul said:

I always beat this particular Tauntaun but I think the Force went off the rails in ROTJ. Yes, in TESB Yoda was a moralising grouch, but that didn’t necessarily give him the final word. Gary Kurtz indicated that the original story idea for ROTJ would have had Luke wandering off into the sunset via a bittersweet ending. To me that indicates a possible sense of ambiguity for Luke - perhaps a blurring of the divide between the so-called Light and Dark. In ROTJ a simple loss of temper is a path to eternal damnation, which I think is childish. ROTJ also added the genetic component (via the ludicrous shoehorning of Leia into the ‘other hope’ role) which in turn led to Midichlorians and virgin births. The Force was, in Lucas’ words back in the day, “space-Yoga”, and could easily have transcended Yoda’s take on things after TESB.

I believe it was bittersweet because the triumvirate of Luke, Han, and Leia were going to split up. Han dies, Leia becomes leader of the New Republic, and Luke goes off to create a New Jedi Order. But there is nothing to indicate that Luke’s Jedi would be taught a new take on The Force. And again the idea that anger leads to the darkside is first made explicit in TESB, not ROTJ.

Post
#1308959
Topic
Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’ve come to dislike the notion that Force-sensitivity is something which can be cloned. Like adding a strong hereditary component to the Force, or the midi-chlorian crap, it grounds what should be a spiritual power to genetics.

There is a real world precedent though; in the past it was felt that certain families were descended and/or favoured by God/The Gods/Fate - genetics was never on the table, rather people were “blessed” for some unknown reason.

I always liked the hereditary component as an addition to the spiritual side. The Force is somewhat accessible to everyone, but it runs stronger in certain bloodlines for reasons unknown…and that should remain unknown. You need to explain why everyone isn’t a force user after all, right Duracell?

Post
#1308953
Topic
Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
Time

OB-1 as a clone of the real Ben Kenobi!? Crazy…or is it? Tarkin did say “surely he must be dead by now” with a lot of conviction. Let’s think about that line: if Kenobi had been killed by “Jedi Hunters” or The Empire Tarkin would have known for sure, being so highly placed in The Empire and the Emperor’s confidence. So it makes a lot of sense for that dialogue to indicate Tarkin thought Kenobi must be dead due to old age!!! The more I think about it the more I actually like it…an aged Kenobi clones himself and through The Force transfers his memories and personality in order to have a Guardian for young Luke. Trippy as hell, but damn what a twist it would be!

Post
#1308949
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

The episode I was referring to is “Hide and Q” which is episode 9 of season 1. Worf is granted a Klingon bride by the power of Q, and Worf objects, stating that he has nothing in common with the woman I believe.

I’ve got to admit; that female Klingon had a smokin’ bod! And that outfit…

Post
#1308948
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DominicCobb said:
Of course you’re not wrong that one lead to another. I guess you could say they started down the dark path in TESB and it ended up dominating their destiny.

Exactly! From a meta view it also could have gone really badly. The ROTJ script exercised a lot of restraint. I think if ROTJ had been made today Luke would be shown using all sorts of ridiculously overpowered Force abilities.

EDIT: Those last three sentences kind of belong in another thread of mine.

Post
#1308947
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t think Gray Jedi is the solution. You can’t say the side that destroyed planets, purged races, and slaughtered children are half the good guys now, and the people doing everything to stop them were partially in the wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Just because the Jedi and Sith can experience the Force can’t mean they can know it perfectly or wholly. A most robust understanding of the Force may lie along a higher synthesis of their philosophies.

As one reviewer commented, the concept of The Force was very vague in SW77 - and that was it’s strength. Christian, Buddhist, Neo-Pagan etc. could all see their own religion in it. The more specific you get the more you are going to diverge from some people’s beliefs. The basic tenants of The Force we get from SW77: trust/believe in yourself, think of others/the greater good, take risks, technology isn’t everything. Simple and beautiful.

In addition to the above, the dark and light sides should’ve been conceived as states of mind rather than innate attributes/divisions of the Force itself. That’s where I feel TESB started going off the rails.

Using power for selfish reasons IS the darkside. Does that really need to be elaborated on further in a Space Opera?

I don’t disagree. But perhaps my argument’s getting muddled.

There’s the Force as I feel it should’ve been, and there’s the Force as it is. The Force should’ve been an innately positive (or neutral) Force which still could’ve been misused by people with bad intent. The Force as it is is a dualistic Force. Since we’re stuck having to deal with the dualistic Force, we have to find ways of interpreting that dualism through a lens appealing to us. The consensus believes that you can’t dip toes in both positivity and negativity without eventually defaulting to one; I believe otherwise. But again, I’d prefer not to view the Force through a dualistic framework to begin with.

Excellent reasoning. I don’t completely agree but I really like your idea that The Force is innately positive. So maybe somehow it gets twisted to evil by Palpatine - the existence of the darkside and it’s powers/abilites comes out of nowhere and takes the Jedi totally by surprise. Instead of their vision being “clouded” as in the PT, they don’t know that such a corruption of The Force is even possible. However; Obi-wan’s dialogue in SW77 seems to indicate that the Jedi are aware of a malevolent “darkside” that exists separate from the “lightside” (a term I hate).

Do we have any interviews with Lucas from the 70s indicating what he meant by The Darkside of the Force? I distrust later interviews of course due to Lucas’ penchant for revisionism.

Post
#1308935
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t think Gray Jedi is the solution. You can’t say the side that destroyed planets, purged races, and slaughtered children are half the good guys now, and the people doing everything to stop them were partially in the wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Just because the Jedi and Sith can experience the Force can’t mean they can know it perfectly or wholly. A most robust understanding of the Force may lie along a higher synthesis of their philosophies.

As one reviewer commented, the concept of The Force was very vague in SW77 - and that was it’s strength. Christian, Buddhist, Neo-Pagan etc. could all see their own religion in it. The more specific you get the more you are going to diverge from some people’s beliefs. The basic tenants of The Force we get from SW77: trust/believe in yourself, think of others/the greater good, take risks, technology isn’t everything. Simple and beautiful.

In addition to the above, the dark and light sides should’ve been conceived as states of mind rather than innate attributes/divisions of the Force itself. That’s where I feel TESB started going off the rails.

Using power for selfish reasons IS the darkside. Does that really need to be elaborated on further in a Space Opera?

Post
#1308933
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t think Gray Jedi is the solution. You can’t say the side that destroyed planets, purged races, and slaughtered children are half the good guys now, and the people doing everything to stop them were partially in the wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Just because the Jedi and Sith can experience the Force can’t mean they can know it perfectly or wholly. A most robust understanding of the Force may lie along a higher synthesis of their philosophies.

As one reviewer commented, the concept of The Force was very vague in SW77 - and that was it’s strength. Christian, Buddhist, Neo-Pagan etc. could all see their own religion in it. The more specific you get the more you are going to diverge from some people’s beliefs. The basic tenants of The Force we get from SW77:

  1. trust/believe in yourself
  2. think of others/the greater good
  3. take risks
  4. technology isn’t everything
  5. money isn’t everything

Simple and beautiful. And true.

Post
#1308930
Topic
I hate the Jedi
Time

The term Gray Jedi has it’s origins in the KOTOR character Jolee Bindo. Maybe Qui-Gon Jinn. But what made both of them to be considered “Gray” was simply questioning Jedi orthodox thought rather than embracing powers or ideas of the darkside. The fact that fandom decided that disagreeing with authority qualifies you as “gray” says a lot about Star Wars fandom. Jolee’s best quote:

“Love doesn’t lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled, but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, that’s what they should teach you to beware, but love itself will save, not condemn you.”

Take that Yoda!

Post
#1308927
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

TavorX said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

In regards to “new” Force powers, I wonder if it’s implied new as in never seen in the films before, or new as in never seen in the films and the EU?
I can almost picture Rey using Battle Meditation during the climatic final act. The heroes feel like they’re losing, but Rey is able to give everyone a spiritual advantage that elevates them to victory. Seems far fetched.
Somewhat confused by the article because it’s saying Rey leaping with the Force is supposed to be new… but even Obi-Wan leapt with the Force to slice Maul in half, so…

I’m looking forward to Force Hornyness.

Post
#1308920
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.

A shame you didn’t just write the above in your opening post on the issue instead of the irrelevant and somewhat nonsensical dig at Disney you initially posted.

Star Wars has always tried to appeal to wish fulfillment fantasies of the young - and much more besides. I imagine that’s a considerable reason why many have became fans.

No offence taken.

A fair response, but look at the difference between Luke and Rey. In SW77 Luke loses his family, his mentor, and his best friend. So he gains “power”, like all children and teens wish, BUT AT A GREAT COST. Rey loses nothing (except respect for Luke Skywalker). Perhaps there is a thread of something in TLJ - she loses a belief that she is anyone special, right? But wait, she is super awesome with the force, so she actually is something special afterall. Huh? What?

Luke wants to learn about the ways of The Force - in part because his revered father did, he had nothing left on Tatooine after his family is killed - and in part because of the call to adventure.

Rey comes from nothing (apparently) - no family, no mentor, no friends - and no wish to have these powers within her that have awakened (in TFA). She wants to wait on Jakku for her ‘family’ to return to her. In fact she runs away from the call to adventure and the situation it has led her to (upon Luke’s lightsabre calling to her) and responsibilities that will entail - plus weight of them too.
 

The ‘super awesome with the force’ trope is something I just don’t see in Rey and what has occurred onscreen.

For me if she were ‘super awesome with the force’…

she would not have been so easily captured by Kylo upon her running away, needed to read to Kylo’s mind during her interrogation to learn some of these powers (or the mind-trick at least), nor lost the later fight vs Kylo before ‘letting the Force in’, Snoke wouldn’t be throwing her around like a ragdoll in his throneroom, nor have to have relied on Kylo betraying and killing Snoke to save her from execution, and she would not have needed to team up with Kylo to defeat the Imperial Guards after killing Snoke - something she struggled with during the fight. Pulling that 'sabre from Kylo wouldn’t be much of a problem either.

Her knowledge and understanding of The Force would also be better than it was in TLJ (and Luke training her and having to even explain the basics - ‘everything she just said was wrong’, y’know… 😉) - which again was far from ‘super awesome with the force’.

It would have been Rey who would have been her that saved the Resistance on Crait with her ‘super awesome with the force’ abilities to save or even defeat the FO - and not Luke sacrificing himself to buy them just enough time to escape with their lives to live another day…

Seems obvious to me Rey had total respect for Luke Skywalker - frustrated and confused why he wouldn’t leave the island and join her in the fight - sure. Yet full on respect for Luke is there - maybe viewing the end scenes of TLJ again will underline this.
 

As I’ve said before, this trilogy is incomplete… and we may well yet receive an explanation (or more understanding) of how Rey came to have that ‘Something inside me has always been there, but now it’s awake and I need help’, the dreams of familiar places etc, in TROS.
 

But Rey being ‘super awesome with the force’? No, that just hasn’t happened for me. YMMV.

 

Anyway, this is not a place to rehash previous circular and oft-repeated debates that have taken place in the TFA/TLJ or more relevant character threads etc - this thread is for discussing Episode IX itself; so let’s get back on topic.

We shall agree to (sort of) disagree and move on.

Post
#1308907
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

In my defense, I watched those episodes exactly once, six years ago.

Watch them again. They are good stuff.

Post
#1308905
Topic
All Things Star Trek
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

Worf starts out a bit of a reluctant Federation citizen (Starfleet is probably the only viable option for him; where else does warfare take place in the Federation?), but in the end he forms of a synthesis of the two cultures. As does his son IIRC.

There is a lot of Klingon civilization we don’t see, but obviously great honor must go to those who design weapons and other tech associated with warfare - and so much science and tech (in real life too of course) is useful for warfare or was originally designed for warfare. You know, like the internet?

They are shown both in ST6 and other times in the various series to have an appreciation for art (music and drama in particular). Klingon cuisine, despite it’s appearance, is also canonically highly nutritious (and tasty!)

Wow, I never knew I was such a ST nerd!

Post
#1308904
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.

A shame you didn’t just write the above in your opening post on the issue instead of the irrelevant and somewhat nonsensical dig at Disney you initially posted.

Star Wars has always tried to appeal to wish fulfillment fantasies of the young - and much more besides. I imagine that’s a considerable reason why many have became fans.

No offence taken.

A fair response, but look at the difference between Luke and Rey. In SW77 Luke loses his family, his mentor, and his best friend. So he gains “power”, like all children and teens wish, BUT AT A GREAT COST. Rey loses nothing (except respect for Luke Skywalker). Perhaps there is a thread of something in TLJ - she loses a belief that she is anyone special, right? But wait, she is super awesome with the force, so she actually is something special afterall. Huh? What?

Post
#1308882
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

theprequelsrule said:

oojason said:

The Rise of Skywalker Will Introduce New Force Powers’:-

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/12/rise-of-skywalker-new-force-powers
 

We need less Force powers, not more. Disney is clueless.

Showing various type of force powers through the Star Wars films has occurred before Disney got involved.

Yes indeed…and not to the benefit of the franchise. The Force has been far too powerful since ESB.

So really your post was just another excuse to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

An excuse? No. A reason? Yes.

So really your post was just another ‘reason’ to bash on Disney for something that you had issues with… long before Disney actually got involved with making Star Wars films.

Fixed for you.

If Disney chooses not to correct what I perceive as flaws in the conception of the Star Wars Universe, flaws that I consider diminish both a suspension of disbelief and a shrinking of potential storylines, then I am comfortable with my “bashing”. The Force needs to be toned down in power so that our heroes seem vulnerable. Disney will not do this because SW has become all about wish fulfillment fantasies of children and teenagers - or those with the equivalent mindset. No offence intended to you personally.