Screw the actual quality of the prequels or their hypothetical reboot, the angry zoomers alone would be worth it.
What the hell is a zoomer?
I was wondering if the name was ironic, or if you used to think the prequels ruled until you had a change of opinion lol.
Cognitive Dissonance is a hell of a drug. I used to believe Lucas was a genius, so of course The Prequels had to be great! But by the time I joined this form I completely loathed them. Then I got excited about The Sequels…
The planet celebration montage added in the RotJ Special Edition is stupid and doesn’t make sense. It wraps up the story too neatly to the point of being unrealistic, while the original version is more open-ended. Palpatine is defeated, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Empire is. And I always liked the EU version of events where the Empire falls apart due to infighting, but still exists in a fragmented, diminished form in later stories, being just one of many factions at work in the galaxy. That feels like a more realistic progression than that whole “Operation Cinder” business ending the Galactic Civil War within just a single year.
I can see a way in which the war ends quickly - but it depends on how loyal the military is to the ruling regime of Emperor, Vader, and the Moffs. If not very, then I can see massive defections quickly bringing back a Republican form of government. Or if the military is apolitical. But like you, I enjoyed the Legends EU take of the post-Endor situation, in which the military were strong supporters of the Imperial style government.
Then again there is post-TPM Legends and pre-TPM Legends EU - which differ on the composition of the Imperial military.
General Grievous is ridiculous. He should have never been brought over to live action.
There have been very few menacing droid designs in Star Wars, sadly.
I like what you’re doing here. It looks like you’re creating a chronology using the OT as your basis. It’s a neat idea.
Thanks! I am perfectly willing to use good ideas from the Legends and even (dear God) the PT as long as they don’t contradict the OT. As an example; I certainly like the idea of powerful quasi-military organizations (such as The Trade Federation) developing towards the end of the Old Republic.
Says the guy whose username is “theprequelsrule”.
Well, I thought I was being funny at the time. Possibly I was drunk. 😃
there was also speculation that Obi-Wan might be a clone of the real Kenobi . The theory was that Obi-Wan was Obi-1 .
Where and when did this happen? It has been mentioned in another thread, but when was this theory making the rounds in fandom? In the 80s? The lead up to the release of TPM?
^ In the 80’s , I was around for it ( first generation fan ) A lot of sci fi magazines and the people who wrote in to them speculated on it . Some of it carried over into the 90s before the prequels . Publications like Cinescape etc .There was also an issue of Star Wars official poster monthly that came out around 1978 or 79 that mentioned that the Storm troopers were clones .
Very, very interesting! I did not know that there was official material released so early on which established that the Stormtroopers were clones. I thought it was still speculation right up to sometime between the release of TPM and AOTC.
lightsabers and their relatives
At one time a popular melee weapon amongst elite forces throughout the galaxy due to tales of the Jedi’s prowess with them in battle
Yes, they can deflect blaster bolts if the user has sufficient reflexes.
Plasma blades are a similar technology utilized by The Mandalorians.
-Unlike a lightsaber, they generate significant heat
-they also draw much, much more power than a lightsaber, requiring the user to be in powered armour
-Often used by Assault Troopers during boarding operations
-The blades have a much more wild, jagged appearance
-members of the infamous combat unit known as The Knights of Ren was particularly renowned for their use of the plasma blade
I like it. The idea of the Republic using droids makes more sense to me, since it’s more humane than using clones. I’ve tried doing my own prequel rewrites before, and I always got stuck on how to define the connection between the clones and the Mandalorians. Your idea makes sense, though I want to hear more about these Clone Masters.
As you are aware the PT introduces these other powers within the Republic: The Trade Federation, Banking Clan etc. The Clone Masters are one of these; geniuses when it comes to genetic engineering
-Maybe they create supersoldiers
-Maybe The Mandalorians, in their later years, are these supersoldiers
-Maybe The Republic rejects them when offered by The Clone Masters to replace Droid armies. Then the Clone Masters decide to take over the Old Republic. Or…
-Maybe The Republic was always based on clones and The Clone Masters revolt when the Republic plans to replace clones with droids - essentially putting The Clone Masters out of business.
Many possibilities 😃
I think I will name the species the Clone Masters belong to as the Spaarti.
Yes! We would have to say the fly over Cloud City by The Falcon would be the one we would like to keep. The Flyover gives a scope of the city buildings that you dont see in the original version.
Forgot about that. The exterior Cloud City scenes were quite nice I always thought. Dare I say that ESBSE would be almost good if Lucas had not included the damnedly pointless sequence of Vader returning to the Executor?
Clone Wars. Droid Wars (?)
The Republic will not use Clones, but fight against them. I like the idea of the Republic forces being based on droids with with live troops in a supporting role. The Jedi act as elite forces - specializing in both aerial/spacefighter combat and infantry engagements (two seemingly opposite areas of warfare).
Arrayed against them are The Clone Masters. They employ clone forces, genetically manufactured war beasts (like the xenomorphs in Alien), and later ally themselves with the Mandalorians to act as a counter to the Jedi.
Hey, man! Those were some rough years when the GOUT was my go-to way of watching the trilogy. As a kid, I had been so excited for the Blu-ray release. Then, after the Blu-ray came out, I heard about the new changes, and saw the clip of Vader shouting “Nooo!” in RotJ. That was the last straw for me regarding the Special Editions. I had accepted every change up until then, but that one was just too much. So I stuck with my 2006 discs for the longest time, only getting the Blu-rays so I could enjoy Harmy’s works of art.
Lol, well as an older teenager I looked forward to the 1995 THX remastered release. This was on a format known as “VHS”. 🙂
Before that the only versions I had were taped from network TV - often edited for time! And they were taped on a Video Cassette Recorder (VCR for short) that my family would rent from our local independently owned video rental store.
To be honest, I’m not totally sure about the name “Xim the Despot.” Maybe something a little more grandiose sounding. I’d like to hear more about his character, though.
Mentioned in passing in the old Daley Han Solo novels from the 80s. The background info that I have for him is directly from those books.
Never mind, then, I retract my issue. I always love digging up old pre-PT lore about the history of the galaxy. It’s sparse and you have to really look for it, but it’s fascinating how it gets the imagination turning and gives you a sense of how the prequels could have gone.
That’s an interesting choice to have the Calamari as the second most developed species. I don’t remember which species has that position in canon, but I had assumed it was something like the Muuns or the Bith. I’m not an expert on that, though.
They provide the main capital ships for the Rebellion at The Battle of Endor, so it made sense to me to give them an extensive interstellar civilization. Sadly the design of their ships happens to be one of my least favourite designs from the OT. They look like giant space turds! 😁
Great, now I can’t unsee that. I actually love the Mon Calamari ships lol. Their round design is a nice contrast to the angular Imperial ships.
I’m sure the design contrast was indeed intentional, but what was the inspiration for the actual design? Pickles?
I would have based it on something like a Manta Ray or other acquatic life.
I can’t prove it, but my feeling is that there is a silent majority of Star Wars fans that are desperately waiting for Disney to reboot the damn PT!
Certainly a lot of Boomers or GenXers probably feel this way. Maybe the older millennials too.
I prefer GOUT!
Madlad!
Fancy meeting you here.
there was also speculation that Obi-Wan might be a clone of the real Kenobi . The theory was that Obi-Wan was Obi-1 .
Where and when did this happen? It has been mentioned in another thread, but when was this theory making the rounds in fandom? In the 80s? The lead up to the release of TPM?
I prefer GOUT!
I like what you’re doing here. It looks like you’re creating a chronology using the OT as your basis. It’s a neat idea.
Thanks! I am perfectly willing to use good ideas from the Legends and even (dear God) the PT as long as they don’t contradict the OT. As an example; I certainly like the idea of powerful quasi-military organizations (such as The Trade Federation) developing towards the end of the Old Republic.
Were the Sith being persecuted by the Jedi or just the Republic in general?
The Jedi only. Put out a spark instead of a fire is the idea. The way I see it the Jedi who become the Sith essentially feel that they should rule due to their greater knowledge and power via training in The Force, whereas the Jedi prefer to remain advisors. A Gandalf vs. Saruman kind of thing.
At least at the start. I think later the Jedi become more integrated with the Republic Armed Forces as an elite corps (kind of like Delta Force, SAS etc. in our own world). This process would be gradual, but then accelerate during The Clone Wars.
I like the idea of Palpatine not being a Sith. He strikes me as someone who is so egotistical that he wouldn’t hold allegiance to any religion or culture at all. He would see himself as above that sort of thing.
A correct assessment of his character. No way would he ever lower himself to use a lightsaber!
To be honest, I’m not totally sure about the name “Xim the Despot.” Maybe something a little more grandiose sounding. I’d like to hear more about his character, though.
Mentioned in passing in the old Daley Han Solo novels from the 80s. The background info that I have for him is directly from those books.
That’s an interesting choice to have the Calamari as the second most developed species. I don’t remember which species has that position in canon, but I had assumed it was something like the Muuns or the Bith. I’m not an expert on that, though.
They provide the main capital ships for the Rebellion at The Battle of Endor, so it made sense to me to give them an extensive interstellar civilization. Sadly the design of their ships happens to be one of my least favourite designs from the OT. They look like giant space turds! 😁
I kind of wish they and the mods would reconcile so they could come back, but a lot of them have said they are no longer interested. Oh well. Can’t change that anymore.
Then you are still in touch with some of them outside of OT.com?
I’m guessing that Lucasfilm will move away from numerical films in the future. I do think, eventually, we’ll get a set of films set in a post-TRoS galaxy (probably much further in the future) and those will basically be considered sequels to the Sequels, with the events of the nine episodes having all passed into legend. I’m betting the cast will be all new, but the story will likely fall into the same tired mold of “Dark Side rises again in some new form, heroes rise up to defeat it and restore balance.” The tone will probably start to move closer to the tone of the MCU, and the galaxy will be depicted as run down and fractured and Wild West-like rather than having a successful Republic.
This is almost a certainty. I honestly believe that they will reboot the whole franchise at some point - like “Ultimate Marvel” back in the day (is that still around?).
As a huge swordsmanship junkie, I like the various “styles” of lightsaber combat that were introduced (Shien, ataru etc.)
How’s it going, theprequelsrule.
In a way, Luke is like the Clark Kent of Star Wars. He’s a paragon of virtue with a humble upbringing. Rey definitely had the potential to be a darker, more interesting character, since her backstory gave her basically the perfect recipe for the Dark Side. Someone with incredible Force potential and unwieldy power, abandoned by her parents, having no friends or family to fall back on, stuck on an impoverished planet all but abandoned by the Republic. She’s worse off than even Anakin was. Both Rey and Finn have troubled backstories that should drastically shape their personalities and worldviews, but they just act ordinary.
As for Luke’s risk of turning, I’d keep in mind that the criteria for falling to the Dark Side in the OT seemed much quicker and easier than it was in the prequels. According to Palpatine, all it would have taken for Luke to fall was just one act of murder, even killing someone who deserved to die, and the Dark would have consumed him. (So going by the OT’s rules, Anakin should have turned right after he murdered a whole village.) Being a Force user seemed like a much more difficult balancing act that an emotional young man like Luke could easily fail at.
Its going okay Servii! The point I was trying to make is that although we are told about how seductive the Darkside is, we are never really shown it. So it is sort of a failure, for me at least, to set up some sort of tension that Luke might become a bad guy. I never felt that way, even once, about Luke. The prequels could have shown us this - so that younger people who maybe saw the PT first would have the same worry about Luke. Am I being clear about what I mean?
Yeah, I get what you mean. Watching RotJ as a kid, I did genuinely feel scared that Luke might turn because of what Palpatine was saying to him, but watching as an adult, he really seems like the least likely character to actually fall. The only thing he has going against him are his attachments to his friends, but besides maybe his choking Jabba’s guards, there’s no real dark streak to him. He was always upstanding. And I love Luke for that, but it makes the danger of him falling more difficult to take seriously. That, and we really never got to see the Dark side’s corruption at work in any major way.
I always thought “Force Choke” was a neutral battle technique - like using a lightsaber, or “Force Push”. It was only in the 90s that it became a “darkside power”. Timothy Zahn did this I believe - and he also put the “Jedi Mind Trick” into the darkside arsenal too! The video games, and obviously the ST, made that one a neutral power again
Nerdgasm!!!
That’s interesting how Obi-Wan was intended to be older. It sort of reminds me of Aragorn. Ewan McGregor did a good job in the role, but it was an odd choice for George to cast someone so young.
I don’t know how closely Lucas and Alan Dean Foster (who Ghost Wrote the novelisation) worked together. The novel was based on the second last screenplay draft, if memory serves. So we can never be sure of Obi-wans intended age on Day 1 of shooting SW77 in '76. So the whole Luke being surprised that Obi-Wan was old enough to have fought in the Wars thing might have been gone by then. I know that it was often assumed Palpatine’s aging was accelerated due to his abuse of darkside powers. Stated specifically in some 90s EU if memory serves (Shadows of the Empire). So maybe using The Force “properly” extended your lifespan. LOTR was almost assuredly an influence on Star Wars, so the whole humans with an extended lifespan thing might have come from there. Please note there is no canon source that states “lightsiders” live longer than regular people.
I do wonder what George was picturing when he thought of the Clone Wars. I suppose he just came up with the name as a way of intriguing the audience with unseen backstory, giving us a sense of some crazy wars off in space back in the olden days of the Republic. And when the time came to write the prequels, he had to figure out what the term “Clone Wars” actually entailed. I doubt he intended back in the 70’s for the clones to be the army protecting the Republic. I do wonder, though, at what point he came up with the idea that the Clone Wars were orchestrated by the Emperor to gain power, since there’s nothing to suggest that in the OT. Maybe originally, the Clone Wars were just a series of conflicts unrelated to the rise of the Empire, which just happened to occur around the same time.
It is almost a certainty that The Clone Wars were originally envisioned as either a battle against clones or a battle between opposing forces in which both sides had their manpower based on cloned soldiers. The Heir to the Empire Trilogy, whose story was carefully monitored by Lucas himself (or so rumour has it), certainly portrays one or the other. The rapid accelerated rate of maturity of Clones (perhaps increasing as opposing sides became more desperate - an arms race of a sort) is stated as producing “clone madness”. So you had a third force of crazy clones just killing anything or everything they could. It was often assumed that The Mandalorians were allied in some way with whomever was opposing The Old Republic. Were they clones as well?
So it seems likely that Lucas did not intend for Clones to be solely Republic forces until, at the earliest, he began writing TPM in '94.
How’s it going, theprequelsrule.
In a way, Luke is like the Clark Kent of Star Wars. He’s a paragon of virtue with a humble upbringing. Rey definitely had the potential to be a darker, more interesting character, since her backstory gave her basically the perfect recipe for the Dark Side. Someone with incredible Force potential and unwieldy power, abandoned by her parents, having no friends or family to fall back on, stuck on an impoverished planet all but abandoned by the Republic. She’s worse off than even Anakin was. Both Rey and Finn have troubled backstories that should drastically shape their personalities and worldviews, but they just act ordinary.
As for Luke’s risk of turning, I’d keep in mind that the criteria for falling to the Dark Side in the OT seemed much quicker and easier than it was in the prequels. According to Palpatine, all it would have taken for Luke to fall was just one act of murder, even killing someone who deserved to die, and the Dark would have consumed him. (So going by the OT’s rules, Anakin should have turned right after he murdered a whole village.) Being a Force user seemed like a much more difficult balancing act that an emotional young man like Luke could easily fail at.
Its going okay Servii! The point I was trying to make is that although we are told about how seductive the Darkside is, we are never really shown it. So it is sort of a failure, for me at least, to set up some sort of tension that Luke might become a bad guy. I never felt that way, even once, about Luke. The prequels could have shown us this - so that younger people who maybe saw the PT first would have the same worry about Luke. Am I being clear about what I mean?
I like your comparison of Luke with Clark Kent. Never made that connection before
Random ideas follow:
Humanity is easily the dominant species in the galaxy, having come to sentience earlier than other species and thus had much more time to expand in power and population. The Mon Calamari are a distant second. Their entry on the side of the rebellion after the destruction of the Death Star-class Mobile Battlestation is a major boost to The Alliance to Restore the Republic.
The Sith are an order of evil Darkside Force users, former Jedi. They flee persecution into the Unknown Regions, where their ability to control the desires and ethics (but not specific actions) of others allows them to build up a great empire amongst the many non-human peoples of the area. Battle Meditation is a Sith invention and specialty. They are much less choosy in training others in Force techniques and powers. As a result the Armed Forces of the Sith, despite their vast numerical inferiority compared to those of The Republic, contains many more Force Users. As former Jedi, they wield the “lightsaber” or “laser sword”; A close combat energy melee weapon.
The Sith Wars:
Basically the same as Dark Horse Comics Tales of the Jedi, Dark Lords of the Sith, and the video games KOTOR and KOTOR2. With the difference being the above mentioned large numbers of Force trained warriors on the side of the Sith.
Darth Vader, a Dark Jedi in the service of The Galactic Empire, claims the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith millennia later, after rediscovering some of the orders techniques. He plans to restore the order, believing only a loyal order of Force users can restore order (no pun intended) to the galaxy, but fears The Emperor’s wrath should he put those plans in motion. The Emperor prefers a virtual monopoly on Force knowledge and techniques and, although he has learned many Sith techniques himself, does not consider himself the heir to their order.
The Mandalorians
They worship two things: war and technology
Powered Armour and semi-sentient Basilisk War Droids are features unique to their civilization.
Decimated after The Second Sith War, the Mandalorian Exodus occurs. Mandalorians disappear from Known Space until The Clone Wars
Best wishes to you and your family Warbler.
b) A fun, swashbuckling space adventure for kids
I think George forgot that Star Wars was for the kid in all of us, and not just for kids. Hence poop jokes in TPM.