twooffour said:
The problem is, in many cases they neither show nor tell ;)
Bingo. You just gave an insightful review of the prequels in one sentence!
It's probably not a good sign if you are saying "huh?" or "what?" to yourself while viewing a Star Wars movie. During the prequels we were saying these things constantly. When we were awake.
twooffour said:
Well, the prequels and explanations... they don't explain what the TF wants, they don't explain what Separatists want, they don't explain the Syfo-Dias nonsense or whatever... they're just really sloppy about providing exposition where it's needed.
Yes. George's 1970s films were always structured to require minimal exposition. Show don't tell was his philosophy - one that was inline with his skill-set as a director.
grisan said:
Ziggy Stardust said:
grisan said:
(never understood why a few seconds of force lightning should kill him).
Because the lightning caused his breathing apparatus to malfunction.
I have read that explanation several times and it makes sense, but I still think it should have been mentioned better in the movies or the damage by the emporer shoudl have been made more obvious. That's why I listed it as one of my main flaws of ROTJ.
No. This is stupid prequel logic: "We need to explain everything!"
I never questioned that the full powers of an evil, powerful, sorcerer could kill even Darth Vader.
People forget the impact of that scene at the time - the lightning came out of nowhere. You were not expecting it. Force lightning was badass...until ruined by AOTC.
TV's Frink said:
Was that similar to (sequel? Prior?) X-wing? I loved that game, even though I sucked at it.
Sequel. As you might have guessed you play as an Imperial. It makes you sympathetic to the Empire in an effective and reasonable way. It came with something called the Steele Chronicles; fiction about the character you play as.
Just get the game Frink. You won't regret it. And get KOTOR too. It will make you love Star Wars again.
I am feeling a strong desire to play TIE Fighter again. Man, that game was amazing. I miss the 90s.
TV's Frink said:
lol
There's always the Random Star Wars Thoughts Thread ;-)
Thanks Frink. I'm heading over.
I am still stunned at the fact that there are some people who rate TPM and ROTJ equally. I even respect some of these people. Can anything in TPM (or any of the prequels) match the following scenes?
- our first look at Jabba
- Luke's battle with the Rancor
- the battle at the sarlacc pit
- the death of Yoda
- the speeder bike chase
- the exciting three part finale (that does not feature a retarded duck-amphibion comic relief character defeating enemies that jedi could not defeat)
- Vader's death
- Ian McDiarmid's performance as the Emperor
C'mon Skyjedi, back me up big guy!
Okay, maybe it was not that interesting.
I think http://www.slashgear.com/how-lucas-ruined-star-wars-and-how-to-save-it-3095953/ makes an interesting point when he talks about how all the actors in the prequels had already seen Star Wars. I don't remember seeing that critique anywhere else.
*sigh* These movies just should never had been made. Like redlettermedia pointed out - this was not a story that needed to be told.
One of the worst inconsistencies is the changing timeline. In the original trilogy it is implied that The Empire has been around for a good while; at least 40 or 50 years. The Star Wars novelization provides an interesting "alternative" history of the fall of the Old Republic and rise of the Empire. A much better one that the that which is presented in the prequels, I might add.
skyjedi2005 said:
I could not get into choices of one it sucked.
There is stuff in there that seems out of continuity with the other Zahn novels like Mara meeting Luke in this book, when she only casually sees him once in jabba's palace and misses a chance to kill him according to the Zahn trilogy, and only meets him after palpatine is long dead and working for karrde.
I also don't buy her being duped into thinking palpatine and the empire is good in the way it is done in the book, just like the troopers in this book and allegiance.
The moral relativist crap is beyond retarded and has no place in star wars pre prequels, the prequels made star wars crappy shades of grey where their were no good guys even the jedi were as bad as the sith.
Zahn started to fall in love with his own creations - many of whom were Imperials - so that is where (I think) a lot of the relativist crap came into play. It began to creep into his work in the Hand of Thrawn duology, but not enough to ruin them (fortunately). Like you, I don't like it.
As an aside, I always thought the final chapter in Vison of the Future was wonderfully written. It made a great ending (Mara coming full circle etc.), and I wish Star Wars had ended there. Then came New Jedi Order...
canofhumdingers said:
theprequelsrule said:
your opponent should always be threatened by your weapon position
You said it better & simpler than me. EXACTLY. And exactly why the prequel fights look so fake (well, one reason).
theprequelsrule said:
Something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln94E9AGYTc would have been nice in the prequels.
That was awesome. I've always been interested in the medieval combat techniques, but know little about them. The weapons there are very different from a japanese sword (having two sharp edges changes things drastically) and yet it still looked SO familiar. The core concepts of how to fight really don't change from weapon to weapon, just the finer points which are adapted for the particular weapon at hand.
Glad you liked the clip. I am dying to try European longsword, but there are no clubs within a reasonable distance. Below is a clip of Tetsuzan Kuroda, the head instructor of one of the few surviving kenjutsu schools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqCE1o02B4I&feature=related
Amazing speed.
Darth Bizarro said:
skyjedi2005 said:
Somehow maybe i just figured this out but i think fink is a prequel gusher, no wonder he hates my prequel loathing.
Very Very interesting.
I highly resent the term "prequel gusher."
I want the original versions of the trilogy to be released just as much as everyone else here but not everyone on this site loathes the prequels and that shouldn't be a prerequisite.
I agree with this. Grudgingly.
ChainsawAsh said:
I believe it was written and shot one way, then at the last minute George changed his mind, rewrote it, and reshot it before release.
I'd like to see the original version.
Where's Zombie when you need him?
Maybe worse than Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar combined was the reprehensible manor in which George had Anakin fall to the Dark Side. Was it supposed to make us like Anakin more? If so it completely backfired; I hold him in even more contempt. Just terrible.
Something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln94E9AGYTc would have been nice in the prequels.
TV's Frink said:
How can I like you when you won't tell me what my previous avatar was? :P
The one of Professor Frink of course. "The theoretical...THIRD dimension".
canofhumdingers said:
Ultimately I guess I have to say "to each his own". It's difficult to discuss on a msg board specifics about why the prequel sword fights look so much faker than the OT sword fights, especially to someone who doesn't have experience with real sword weilding martial arts.
Ultimately, despite what most people might think, the OT fighting is actually much more aggresive and threating b/c of the techniquies and posture/stnaces used. A major concept in both Kendo and Fencing is "controlling the center" which, is reall too complicated to explain here. But the essence of it is to keep your sword in lined up with the center of your opponent's body, with the tip pointed directly at their throat. In this way, if they try to move in, they do the work for you by skewering themselves on your sword. Any time you deviate from controlling the center, you open yourself to attack. This is a significant part of the concept of being willing to sacrifice yourself to defeat your opponent in that you MUST give up at least some control of the center in order to strike.
While neither OT or PT fighting is truly realistic, the PT in particular really throws out the idea of maintaining an aggressive, threating posture until you see an opening in which to strike. They are constantly doing things like twirling, spinning, etc. that leaves themselves SUPER wide open for attack. The reason watching it in slow-mo still looks like it "works" is b/c it's all coreographed to MAKE it work....
But, like I said, to each his own. I can willingly suspend my disbelief while watching swordfights in movies & defer to what looks good onscreen, but only to a point. The prequels go far beyond that point for me too many times in their fights. And of course that point is going to different for each person.
And talking about controlling the center, here's a good video of two hachi dan (equivalent of 8th degree black belt, the highest rank in kendo that literally takes over 30 yrs of training to reach) fighting in slowmo. They are each trying to control the center & force the opponent to make an opening until one of them spots an opening and attacks it. If you watch, what creates the opening is the guy on the left dips the tip of his sword & brings it around to the other side of his opponent's sword in an attempt to find an opening (probably to strike the right wrist of the guy on the right). This opens the head of the left guy for attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYttYhzZZX8&feature=related
This is another really neat one that shows some of the deflecting techniques including two very effective uses of the hand guard (you never really "block" in kendo so much as just slightly deflect your opponent's blows off target)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMB_8KyW-5E&feature=relmfu
I am somewhat knowledgeable in regards to martial arts, including weapon arts. I agree with you; the lack of aggressiveness in the combat stances (your opponent should always be threatened by your weapon position) really sucks tension right out of the PT duels.
xhonzi said:
TV's Frink said:
And you'll have to forgive me for "already said in this thread" moments. I don't read hal posts very closely, if at all.
Actually (literally) it was from a well respected member of this board. No, not bkev, but Bingowingo: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/anothe-example-of-lucas-changing-things-to-appeal-to-a-new-generation-lightsaber-dueling-styles-of-OT-vs-PT/post/458520/#TopicPost458520
Am I well respected yet? I've made some witty posts! And I think Frink likes me!
Bingowings said:
Twirl, twirl, twirl, twirl, twirl.
^ That part was so stupid. The duel had been pretty good (not great) until this point.
I think that in the original films, due to budget constraints, primitive CGI, and lower audience expectations, they did not do (and could not do) as much superhuman type stuff. Of course this just made it more awesome - they were unique.
The lesson is, as always, that with any sort of stunt/special effect LESS IS MORE.
But movie studios always feel that they have to one-up the last blockbuster or they will lose money. It is easier to attempt to one-up them with a special effect than a good story I suppose.
TV's Frink said:
Which one?
The one immediately prior to the avatar you are currently using.
TV's Frink said:
This is what happens when you ignore the ball rating system. Everything falls apart.
Perhaps. I miss your old avatar.
I went with the 8 point system because I think a lot of other ratings systems have redundant levels (like an 8/10 for great and a 9/10 for excellent). I feel that calling a film "great" or "excellent" or "outstanding" is basically saying the the same thing. I suppose I could have had a 0 for a film with no redeeming features. On the other hand the 4-star rating system seems too basic.
timdiggerm said:
Wookieepedia said:
The canonicity of the events depicted in the original Star Tours experience has been disputed for many reasons, the most obvious being the inclusion of the Death Star. Since R2-D2's presence onboard the Starspeeder 3000 precludes the events taking place during the Battle of Yavin or the Battle of Endor, the Death Star seen in the ride video has been considered by some to be the Death Star prototype, as seen in Jedi Search and Champions of the Force and its destruction to be a depiction of the prototype's destruction at The Maw. However, it does not match that prototype's skeletal construction and R2-D2 is accounted for during that event, as well. Also, the Star Tours Death Star is very close to Endor, far from the Maw's location. This may indicate it is a so far unrevealed Death Star, or that the ride's events are simply not canonical. Others have suggested that the Death Star is one of the modified habitation spheres seen under construction over Coruscant. Leland Chee has tentatively named it the Death Star III.
FML.
