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theprequelsrule

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2-Jun-2011
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28-Feb-2021
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Post
#1411419
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

screams in the void said:

there was also speculation that Obi-Wan might be a clone of the real Kenobi . The theory was that Obi-Wan was Obi-1 .

Where and when did this happen? It has been mentioned in another thread, but when was this theory making the rounds in fandom? In the 80s? The lead up to the release of TPM?

Post
#1411414
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Servii said:

I like what you’re doing here. It looks like you’re creating a chronology using the OT as your basis. It’s a neat idea.

Thanks! I am perfectly willing to use good ideas from the Legends and even (dear God) the PT as long as they don’t contradict the OT. As an example; I certainly like the idea of powerful quasi-military organizations (such as The Trade Federation) developing towards the end of the Old Republic.

Were the Sith being persecuted by the Jedi or just the Republic in general?

The Jedi only. Put out a spark instead of a fire is the idea. The way I see it the Jedi who become the Sith essentially feel that they should rule due to their greater knowledge and power via training in The Force, whereas the Jedi prefer to remain advisors. A Gandalf vs. Saruman kind of thing.

At least at the start. I think later the Jedi become more integrated with the Republic Armed Forces as an elite corps (kind of like Delta Force, SAS etc. in our own world). This process would be gradual, but then accelerate during The Clone Wars.

I like the idea of Palpatine not being a Sith. He strikes me as someone who is so egotistical that he wouldn’t hold allegiance to any religion or culture at all. He would see himself as above that sort of thing.

A correct assessment of his character. No way would he ever lower himself to use a lightsaber!

To be honest, I’m not totally sure about the name “Xim the Despot.” Maybe something a little more grandiose sounding. I’d like to hear more about his character, though.

Mentioned in passing in the old Daley Han Solo novels from the 80s. The background info that I have for him is directly from those books.

That’s an interesting choice to have the Calamari as the second most developed species. I don’t remember which species has that position in canon, but I had assumed it was something like the Muuns or the Bith. I’m not an expert on that, though.

They provide the main capital ships for the Rebellion at The Battle of Endor, so it made sense to me to give them an extensive interstellar civilization. Sadly the design of their ships happens to be one of my least favourite designs from the OT. They look like giant space turds! 😁

Post
#1411159
Topic
Prediction for Star Wars X, XI, and XII
Time

Servii said:

I’m guessing that Lucasfilm will move away from numerical films in the future. I do think, eventually, we’ll get a set of films set in a post-TRoS galaxy (probably much further in the future) and those will basically be considered sequels to the Sequels, with the events of the nine episodes having all passed into legend. I’m betting the cast will be all new, but the story will likely fall into the same tired mold of “Dark Side rises again in some new form, heroes rise up to defeat it and restore balance.” The tone will probably start to move closer to the tone of the MCU, and the galaxy will be depicted as run down and fractured and Wild West-like rather than having a successful Republic.

This is almost a certainty. I honestly believe that they will reboot the whole franchise at some point - like “Ultimate Marvel” back in the day (is that still around?).

Post
#1411150
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

How’s it going, theprequelsrule.

In a way, Luke is like the Clark Kent of Star Wars. He’s a paragon of virtue with a humble upbringing. Rey definitely had the potential to be a darker, more interesting character, since her backstory gave her basically the perfect recipe for the Dark Side. Someone with incredible Force potential and unwieldy power, abandoned by her parents, having no friends or family to fall back on, stuck on an impoverished planet all but abandoned by the Republic. She’s worse off than even Anakin was. Both Rey and Finn have troubled backstories that should drastically shape their personalities and worldviews, but they just act ordinary.

As for Luke’s risk of turning, I’d keep in mind that the criteria for falling to the Dark Side in the OT seemed much quicker and easier than it was in the prequels. According to Palpatine, all it would have taken for Luke to fall was just one act of murder, even killing someone who deserved to die, and the Dark would have consumed him. (So going by the OT’s rules, Anakin should have turned right after he murdered a whole village.) Being a Force user seemed like a much more difficult balancing act that an emotional young man like Luke could easily fail at.

Its going okay Servii! The point I was trying to make is that although we are told about how seductive the Darkside is, we are never really shown it. So it is sort of a failure, for me at least, to set up some sort of tension that Luke might become a bad guy. I never felt that way, even once, about Luke. The prequels could have shown us this - so that younger people who maybe saw the PT first would have the same worry about Luke. Am I being clear about what I mean?

Yeah, I get what you mean. Watching RotJ as a kid, I did genuinely feel scared that Luke might turn because of what Palpatine was saying to him, but watching as an adult, he really seems like the least likely character to actually fall. The only thing he has going against him are his attachments to his friends, but besides maybe his choking Jabba’s guards, there’s no real dark streak to him. He was always upstanding. And I love Luke for that, but it makes the danger of him falling more difficult to take seriously. That, and we really never got to see the Dark side’s corruption at work in any major way.

I always thought “Force Choke” was a neutral battle technique - like using a lightsaber, or “Force Push”. It was only in the 90s that it became a “darkside power”. Timothy Zahn did this I believe - and he also put the “Jedi Mind Trick” into the darkside arsenal too! The video games, and obviously the ST, made that one a neutral power again

Nerdgasm!!!

Post
#1411148
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

Servii said:

That’s interesting how Obi-Wan was intended to be older. It sort of reminds me of Aragorn. Ewan McGregor did a good job in the role, but it was an odd choice for George to cast someone so young.

I don’t know how closely Lucas and Alan Dean Foster (who Ghost Wrote the novelisation) worked together. The novel was based on the second last screenplay draft, if memory serves. So we can never be sure of Obi-wans intended age on Day 1 of shooting SW77 in '76. So the whole Luke being surprised that Obi-Wan was old enough to have fought in the Wars thing might have been gone by then. I know that it was often assumed Palpatine’s aging was accelerated due to his abuse of darkside powers. Stated specifically in some 90s EU if memory serves (Shadows of the Empire). So maybe using The Force “properly” extended your lifespan. LOTR was almost assuredly an influence on Star Wars, so the whole humans with an extended lifespan thing might have come from there. Please note there is no canon source that states “lightsiders” live longer than regular people.

I do wonder what George was picturing when he thought of the Clone Wars. I suppose he just came up with the name as a way of intriguing the audience with unseen backstory, giving us a sense of some crazy wars off in space back in the olden days of the Republic. And when the time came to write the prequels, he had to figure out what the term “Clone Wars” actually entailed. I doubt he intended back in the 70’s for the clones to be the army protecting the Republic. I do wonder, though, at what point he came up with the idea that the Clone Wars were orchestrated by the Emperor to gain power, since there’s nothing to suggest that in the OT. Maybe originally, the Clone Wars were just a series of conflicts unrelated to the rise of the Empire, which just happened to occur around the same time.

It is almost a certainty that The Clone Wars were originally envisioned as either a battle against clones or a battle between opposing forces in which both sides had their manpower based on cloned soldiers. The Heir to the Empire Trilogy, whose story was carefully monitored by Lucas himself (or so rumour has it), certainly portrays one or the other. The rapid accelerated rate of maturity of Clones (perhaps increasing as opposing sides became more desperate - an arms race of a sort) is stated as producing “clone madness”. So you had a third force of crazy clones just killing anything or everything they could. It was often assumed that The Mandalorians were allied in some way with whomever was opposing The Old Republic. Were they clones as well?

So it seems likely that Lucas did not intend for Clones to be solely Republic forces until, at the earliest, he began writing TPM in '94.

Post
#1411145
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

How’s it going, theprequelsrule.

In a way, Luke is like the Clark Kent of Star Wars. He’s a paragon of virtue with a humble upbringing. Rey definitely had the potential to be a darker, more interesting character, since her backstory gave her basically the perfect recipe for the Dark Side. Someone with incredible Force potential and unwieldy power, abandoned by her parents, having no friends or family to fall back on, stuck on an impoverished planet all but abandoned by the Republic. She’s worse off than even Anakin was. Both Rey and Finn have troubled backstories that should drastically shape their personalities and worldviews, but they just act ordinary.

As for Luke’s risk of turning, I’d keep in mind that the criteria for falling to the Dark Side in the OT seemed much quicker and easier than it was in the prequels. According to Palpatine, all it would have taken for Luke to fall was just one act of murder, even killing someone who deserved to die, and the Dark would have consumed him. (So going by the OT’s rules, Anakin should have turned right after he murdered a whole village.) Being a Force user seemed like a much more difficult balancing act that an emotional young man like Luke could easily fail at.

Its going okay Servii! The point I was trying to make is that although we are told about how seductive the Darkside is, we are never really shown it. So it is sort of a failure, for me at least, to set up some sort of tension that Luke might become a bad guy. I never felt that way, even once, about Luke. The prequels could have shown us this - so that younger people who maybe saw the PT first would have the same worry about Luke. Am I being clear about what I mean?

I like your comparison of Luke with Clark Kent. Never made that connection before

Post
#1411143
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Random ideas follow:

Humanity is easily the dominant species in the galaxy, having come to sentience earlier than other species and thus had much more time to expand in power and population. The Mon Calamari are a distant second. Their entry on the side of the rebellion after the destruction of the Death Star-class Mobile Battlestation is a major boost to The Alliance to Restore the Republic.

The Sith are an order of evil Darkside Force users, former Jedi. They flee persecution into the Unknown Regions, where their ability to control the desires and ethics (but not specific actions) of others allows them to build up a great empire amongst the many non-human peoples of the area. Battle Meditation is a Sith invention and specialty. They are much less choosy in training others in Force techniques and powers. As a result the Armed Forces of the Sith, despite their vast numerical inferiority compared to those of The Republic, contains many more Force Users. As former Jedi, they wield the “lightsaber” or “laser sword”; A close combat energy melee weapon.

The Sith Wars:

Basically the same as Dark Horse Comics Tales of the Jedi, Dark Lords of the Sith, and the video games KOTOR and KOTOR2. With the difference being the above mentioned large numbers of Force trained warriors on the side of the Sith.

Darth Vader, a Dark Jedi in the service of The Galactic Empire, claims the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith millennia later, after rediscovering some of the orders techniques. He plans to restore the order, believing only a loyal order of Force users can restore order (no pun intended) to the galaxy, but fears The Emperor’s wrath should he put those plans in motion. The Emperor prefers a virtual monopoly on Force knowledge and techniques and, although he has learned many Sith techniques himself, does not consider himself the heir to their order.

The Mandalorians

They worship two things: war and technology

Powered Armour and semi-sentient Basilisk War Droids are features unique to their civilization.

Decimated after The Second Sith War, the Mandalorian Exodus occurs. Mandalorians disappear from Known Space until The Clone Wars

Post
#1411124
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

JackNapier said:

Judging from the fact that a lot of the posts from the second era, which I caught the finishing two-three years of, were quite antagonistic at times, I for one prefer that people are nicer and tamer.

It is interesting to see different takes on the online world. Certainly most of us are willing to put up with some things online that we would not do so at work or home, but it seems that difference is shrinking (for better or worse). I wonder if it is a generational thing. Personally I think we should be able to take a little bit more antagonism from anonymous strangers online.

But we can all agree that if a site has rules and you repeatedly flaunt those rules, then you can expect consequences.

Post
#1411118
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

Simply, Rey is not Luke, despite the films treating her like she is, and I honestly think it’s a reductive treatment of her character. She has a different personality, different goals, and different relationships.

Evening Servii.

Luke is the farmboy from Kansas, raised with the good simple virtues of the farmer. Rey is a scavenger in a much more harsh “dog eat dog” world. The obvious way to make Rey different is to show her as a much more hardened, cynical character as a result (more Han, less Luke). Disney probably worried this portrayal would not make her likable. It didn’t hurt to make Tony Stark a bit of an asshole in Iron Man…but I digress.

The point is Rey should have been far more tempted to the Dark Side then Luke because of the environment she was raised in. Come to think of it, in SW77, Luke is pretty much a golden boy. We never get a sense that he could ever be “seduced” by the darkside. We are told in the later films of the dangers, but I honestly never felt there was real tension in ESB or ROTJ that Luke would turn evil, at least until Vader threatened Leia right at the end of the Trilogy.

Post
#1411114
Topic
Prediction for Star Wars X, XI, and XII
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the proposed domination of the author." - Tolkien

A nice quote. A reviewer once praised Star Wars for its concepts BECAUSE they were so vague. That allowed it reach the widest possible audience. This was particularly true in regards to The Force (at least in the OT). The concept behind it was so vague that person could read any religion into that suited their egos…er, I mean spiritual journeys.

Post
#1410956
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Absolutely. Finn was by far my favorite character in TFA. It’s a shame what they did to John Boyega. His character had so much potential. Plus, who better to fit the message of “Heroes can come from anywhere” than a former Stormtrooper?

What happened to Boyega?

I just mean the way they deliberately sidelined his character, in later drafts of TFA as well as in the next two sequels, after JJ initially cast him to be the male lead. There’s a great video that goes into detail about it by this guy called Okiro. The video’s called “Finn, the Lost Protagonist.”

Yeah, he certainly seemed to be poised as Rey’s love interest at the end of TFA. Then they just dropped that whole angle in TLJ and tried to (sort of) put it back in ROS…but not really

Post
#1410954
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Absolutely. Finn was by far my favorite character in TFA. It’s a shame what they did to John Boyega. His character had so much potential. Plus, who better to fit the message of “Heroes can come from anywhere” than a former Stormtrooper?

What happened to Boyega?

Post
#1410951
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Post
#1410950
Topic
Which Vader vs. Luke Duel is Better?
Time

Servii said:

Personally, however, I prefer the RotJ duel because of what’s at stake in the moment. The scene isn’t really about the physical fight itself. It’s a spiritual battle between Light and Dark. The sword swinging is really just a backdrop to the struggle in both Luke and Anakin’s hearts against the absolute evil of the Emperor. And I always get chills when Luke shouts “Never!” and the chilling music starts. The choir that sings both during Luke’s outburst and when Anakin is about to save his son is really stunning.

Me too! I also love the music - the weird synthesizer when Vader (holding Luke’s lightsaber BTW!) is looking for Luke in the shadows, then the chorus when Luke unleashes his anger.

Post
#1410946
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber and it doesn’t matter that he is getting senior citizens discounts. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

Post
#1410944
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

A huge issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss. But time heals all wounds I supposed. I totally dismiss the PT as canonical, and have done so for a long time. I already dismiss the ST the same way in my mind, but not yet in my heart. Not yet. Follow me?

Post
#1410940
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

TLJ Luke would have been fine if it was an alternate timeline/interpretation of the character, rather than being labelled as the definitive, hard canon Luke. The Scorsese film The Last Temptation of Christ was very controversial among Christians for its depiction of a flawed, confused, very human Jesus. But the film goes out of its way to make clear to the audience that its an alternate interpretation of Jesus as a way of exploring deeper concepts through the character. The film doesn’t claim to offer the definitive, most Biblically accurate version of Jesus that everyone must accept as canon. It’s just one director’s hypothetical take on the character in a standalone film. The divisive reaction to that movie reminds me a lot of the divisive reaction to Luke in TLJ. But the difference is that TLJ is a sequel, and it leaves no alternative versions available. It’s been set in stone as the official canon fate of Luke Skywalker. That’s a big part of why so many people have rejected that version of Luke.

In theory, many of the Special Edition changes are fine. The problem is just that they are poorly implemented and that the mid 90’s CGI has aged so badly. If there was any time that Lucas should have made and released the Special Editions, it should have been after the prequels were made instead of before, with the original version of the OT ideally being shown in theaters a year or so before TPM as a sort of recap.

Each trilogy is best treated as its own complete story rather than lumping them all together as a Saga that often contradicts itself with very different creative visions. (Even young George Lucas and old George Lucas aren’t really in accord with one another on a lot of things.)

Lucasfilm should loosen its approach to canon, so that the franchise can be treated as more of a loose mythology rather than a definite sequence of hard canon events. In fact, it might be a good idea to bring back the idea of “levels of canon” like we had with the old EU.

I like you Servii and I hope you stick around this place. Did you know that Arthur C. Clarke specifically said that each of his 2001 sequels existed separately from each other in their own universes?

Some of us, including myself, feel that SW77 is really a separate entity from EVERYTHING that followed.

Post
#1410938
Topic
George Lucas: Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist...
Time

Servii said:

I always liked the idea of the 6 films being Anakin’s story, but after rewatching the OT, it became the clear that that was never meant to be the case originally. If the prequels had been made first, the OT would have been written extremely differently, especially the character of Vader. Vader in ANH is not really at the center of the story. And there’s nothing in the OT to suggest that Vader is a child of prophecy. He was simply a powerful Jedi who betrayed the Order to the Empire, and also had a son and daughter that were hidden from him and the Emperor. His importance to the story came from his high ranking in the Empire, his status as a traitor to the Jedi Order, and his relationship to Luke. It was the prequels that tried to attach much greater importance to Anakin and to make him the center of the story and main character of the saga. But the Anakin we were given wasn’t strong enough to really fill that role. Even George himself at one point said that Vader was meant to be ultimately a pathetic character. A sickly, deformed man in a metallic suit who betrayed everything he’d once stood for and made enemies of his best friend and his own children.

The 9-part saga feels very disjointed now, because the PT and ST both try to redefine the saga in ways that don’t line up with each other or the OT. Lucasfilm has tried to push the idea that the saga is about the Skywalker family as a whole, but in the end, they’re mostly irrelevant to the final outcome of Episode IX.

As Ewan McGregor correctly noted, there is the OT…and then there is everything else. And everything else mostly sucks.