theprequelsrule

Broom Kid said:
Zahn wrote a Star Wars trilogy that is really more like a 6 or 9 film series in terms of how much story is packed in there, and the tone of it is definitely more like a crime procedural and a military fantasy than the space opera Star Wars is.

It was Zahn writing a great sci-fi military adventure using Star Wars characters. But I don’t know that it would work as an animated Star Wars story. It’s why they’re plucking out the star character and reinterpreting him instead of bringing the whole thing to bear.

I think it just wouldn’t fit with what the sequel trilogy is working with.

It is a different take to be sure…but he handled the OT characters so well. They spoke with the right “voice”. And more Wedge content!

I liked the idea of Leia redeeming her father in her own way too. The notion too, of a strategic and tactical military savant as a counter to force users is interesting as well. Thrawn is almost too perfect…but he isn’t. For all his genius his commitment to lies and deception and his ignorance of the force undoes him in the end.

DominicCobb said:

theprequelsrule said:

DominicCobb said:

like too how the EU novel Labyrinth of Evil sets up that Anakin has basically been, unbeknownst to Obi-wan, slowly but surely tapping into the power of the dark side as a means to help win the Clone Wars. What if Anakin’s whole goal was to end the war, and really kinda thought he was a good man, trying to bring peace to the galaxy (words that ring hollow in ROTS as is), which is why he agreed to quickly wipe out the Jedi so that they wouldn’t quickly fall into another war? It’s funny because you can see that’s sort of Lucas’s intent but it ends up as subtext, at best.

We are never shown the implied addictive character of the Darkside are we? You start to use it because you feel you need the power, but in the end it masters you. There is an implication that it is a malevolent force that twists it’s users to pure evil even if they had noble goals. Palpatine is the end result of the process; power for power’s sake.

Yes, that’s exactly how it was portrayed in the OT and then Lucas dropped the ball. Just look at the scene where Anakin kills Dooku - instead of instinctively killing him after unleashing his anger to best him, he has to be goaded into doing it after he’s already admitted that it’s not the right thing to do. So stupid.

Garbage acting and directing as well. Compare it to the scene it “rhymes with” in ROTJ and there is no comparison. The emotional impact and physical ferocity (man, is Luke pissed off!) in ROTJ are miles beyond the ROTS scene.

edit: forgot to add that the music in the ROTJ scene is much better too.

DominicCobb said:

Broom Kid said:

I think it’s off the table primarily because if they ever actually wanted it to be on the table they’d have made an exception to it’s being de-canonized like they did for Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir.

Not sure I understand what you mean, I didn’t think Son of Dathomir was ever not canon.

theprequelsrule said:

DominicCobb said:

theprequelsrule said:

DominicCobb said:

Considering they seem to have been careful not to retell any stories from the EU (besides when it’s something mentioned in the films, like RO and Solo, where things are done completely differently from the EU), it’s hard to imagine them doing an adaptation of an EU story. But never say never I guess.

Give it time. Think about it; you have a very popular story arc and character - so you have a built in audience for it. You have many fans, including myself, who want to see our OT heroes in their prime again. There are many scenes from those books that I would love to see in live-action (Luke’s fight with the Noghri for instance).

As I said years ago in an earlier thread, a mini-series of a dozen episodes or so would better suit The Thrawn Trilogy then trying to compress it all into 3 films.

We’ll see. I don’t think it’s an impossibility. Certainly something like the Thrawn trilogy must seem tempting, considering the character is now canon. But do they adapt it as close as they can, considering current canon circumstances? Or do they just do a very vague ‘OT heroes vs Thrown’ sort of thing?

For me, I’m kinda with Broom Kid. Not that big a fan of Zahn’s take on the franchise, so I’d hope if they did tackle it, they’d change some things.

What aspects of Zahn’s take do you dislike? What aspects, if any, do you like?

Well, I should clarify I’ve only read HTTE. It was more a matter of perspective/genre than of specific aspects, Zahn treated the series like military sci-fi, which just felt very wrong to me and made it hard to get into the story. I’m not a big fan of Thrawn as a character, but what can you do, he’s in the canon now either way. The ysalamiri were pretty dumb too, just as bad as midichlorians honestly.

What about Thrawn bothered you? I understand your reservations about the ysalamiri; an idea a little to “sciency” for SW (felt like something out of Star Trek instead). However; the payoff was great.

DominicCobb said:

like too how the EU novel Labyrinth of Evil sets up that Anakin has basically been, unbeknownst to Obi-wan, slowly but surely tapping into the power of the dark side as a means to help win the Clone Wars. What if Anakin’s whole goal was to end the war, and really kinda thought he was a good man, trying to bring peace to the galaxy (words that ring hollow in ROTS as is), which is why he agreed to quickly wipe out the Jedi so that they wouldn’t quickly fall into another war? It’s funny because you can see that’s sort of Lucas’s intent but it ends up as subtext, at best.

We are never shown the implied addictive character of the Darkside are we? You start to use it because you feel you need the power, but in the end it masters you. There is an implication that it is a malevolent force that twists it’s users to pure evil even if they had noble goals. Palpatine is the end result of the process; power for power’s sake.

DominicCobb said:

theprequelsrule said:

DominicCobb said:

Considering they seem to have been careful not to retell any stories from the EU (besides when it’s something mentioned in the films, like RO and Solo, where things are done completely differently from the EU), it’s hard to imagine them doing an adaptation of an EU story. But never say never I guess.

Give it time. Think about it; you have a very popular story arc and character - so you have a built in audience for it. You have many fans, including myself, who want to see our OT heroes in their prime again. There are many scenes from those books that I would love to see in live-action (Luke’s fight with the Noghri for instance).

As I said years ago in an earlier thread, a mini-series of a dozen episodes or so would better suit The Thrawn Trilogy then trying to compress it all into 3 films.

We’ll see. I don’t think it’s an impossibility. Certainly something like the Thrawn trilogy must seem tempting, considering the character is now canon. But do they adapt it as close as they can, considering current canon circumstances? Or do they just do a very vague ‘OT heroes vs Thrown’ sort of thing?

For me, I’m kinda with Broom Kid. Not that big a fan of Zahn’s take on the franchise, so I’d hope if they did tackle it, they’d change some things.

What aspects of Zahn’s take do you dislike? What aspects, if any, do you like?

The first shot from Episode 2 is now up. The art style is certainly looking more refined (and closer to the comics IIRC).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-SFVHLRorE

TavorX said:

“Blast! I hate flying!”

“Flying is for droids!” I believe is the correct quote.

FreezingTNT2 said:

theprequelsrule said:

Anakin’s fall to the darkside was terrible. The whole notion that he was tricked into believing that the Jedi were attempting a coup etc. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

How would you have handled Anakin’s fall to the dark side instead? What would you have done instead of having him believe the Jedi were evil?

I’m not sure to be honest, but give me a decade or so (the time between ROTJ and 1994 when Lucas started writing the PT) and I could come up with something that was at least OK.

Obi-wan failed to give Anakin proper instruction - as he told Luke. But we never see that in the PT. Obi-wan always tries to make Anakin a proper Jedi. Anakin is just shown to be an arrogant prick, and borderline mentally ill.

Here is an idea - the PT starts in the Clone Wars with the Republic losing and the Jedi order decimated and desperate for more Knights. Anakin is not suitable morally, but Obi-wan is convinced it is worth the risk due to his great skill in the force and as a warrior in general. He is convinced that he can reform his ethics, but fails to do so.

DominicCobb said:

Considering they seem to have been careful not to retell any stories from the EU (besides when it’s something mentioned in the films, like RO and Solo, where things are done completely differently from the EU), it’s hard to imagine them doing an adaptation of an EU story. But never say never I guess.

Give it time. Think about it; you have a very popular story arc and character - so you have a built in audience for it. You have many fans, including myself, who want to see our OT heroes in their prime again. There are many scenes from those books that I would love to see in live-action (Luke’s fight with the Noghri for instance).

As I said years ago in an earlier thread, a mini-series of a dozen episodes or so would better suit The Thrawn Trilogy then trying to compress it all into 3 films.

Anakin’s fall to the darkside was terrible. The whole notion that he was tricked into believing that the Jedi were attempting a coup etc. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

nowt said:

Clip from TROS. Oh dear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPiBWrIaSI&feature=emb_logo

Yikes. Folks, we are looking at PT level attempts at “humor” here.

I saw Star Trek Beyond only recently and was surprised to find it to be the best of the Pineverse films. Good movie: a solid 7/10.

mykyta-R4 said:

Why not a film or series friend? Is it difficult to do beacuse of the book content - or chance of ‘messing it up’?

Messing it up.

Part of the charm is it’s 1950s (or earlier) sensibilities and dialogue. No way those things make it intact in any modern adaption. Can you imagine a modern adaption of Star Wars today in which Han calls Leia “sweetheart” or the scene between the two on the Falcon where they first kiss? No way those things make it into a movie today.

I refuse to let this thread leave the main page until all forum members and lurkers watch the web series!

regularjoe said:

A great idea - Christopher Lee as a rogue Jedi
Failed execution - see above

and while talking about bad (and badly executed) freakin’ ideas:
General Greivous.

I like the idea of a Sith who is a sophisticated gentleman on the outside but inside is evil to the core; Lee played Dooku always calm and in control on the surface and I wish Lee had been given more screen time.

Greivous was very well executed in that Clone Wars microseries, but yes his conception was a silly idea. One of the prequels problems was that Lucas kept introducing a new “main” villain every movie. What would have been wrong with Darth Maul as the main antagonist for the entire PT?

TV’s Frink said:

I stand corrected.  I officially encourage everyone to protest the blatant racism in Star Wars by never watching it again.  We should all probably stop coming here as well, since this site apparently supports a racist movie.

It’s now 2019. I bet there are a lot more people out there who actually think TV’s Frink (too bad about the ban) is making a serious suggestion worthy of consideration.

oojason said:

Eva Green

Not only did she steal scenes in Penny Dreadful - she stole the whole show.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1200692/

You show much better taste here.

oojason said:

Fiona Hill - with a beautiful northern accent still, too.

Very masculine looking IMO. No thanks.

Tack said:

I feel like ESB did more harm than good for Vader. I came across an article in an old issue of Famous Monsters of Filmland (around 1978) and it had a really interesting point about the code of honor which Vader seems to exhibit in the original Star Wars, and it read quite a bit of character into him that is easy to imagine being a reason for the spike of popularity he achieved between 1977 and 1980. I’ll try and post it if I can find it again. It made some interesting points.

Anyway, in Empire Strikes Back I feel like the nuance of Vader’s characterization was almost entirely lost. The constant killing of his subordinates (to a degree it almost becomes a running gag), the comparatively angry delivery of his lines versus the more soft-spoken delivery of the original, and the fact that his dialogue becomes considerably more blunt. He has his moments of greatness, certainly, but I feel like from the outset of development they were too far gone into making him over-the-top evil rather than the comparatively mysterious and intimidating figure he was in the original film.

I’m actually curious, does anyone else think this?

An interesting opinion, and I think you are on to something. ESB Vader is not someone you can imagine having a conversation with but in SW, yeah if you were of sufficient rank, I can see it. In SW he is far more of a human being rather then this uber-powered Sorcerer/Dark Paladin type character. Of course the Jedi themselves were conceived very differently too.

On of the most interesting things about Vader in SW77 is the question of his position in the Imperial Hierarchy. Apparently Vader does not outrank a Grand Moff nor, in all likelihood, other senior military commanders and government officials. Admiral Motti is certainly not afraid to express his poor opinion of Vader’s abilities and religious sensibilities; and in a very disrespectful manner. Deleted scenes from ROTJ, as well as early drafts of both it and ESBs scripts, show that he is not the unquestioned successor to Palpatine. Interesting stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p23mA2VV0A

TavorX said:

I’m more interested in how potential DLC pans out. As much as I really wanna pull the trigger on buying it, I know it will be smarter to wait and see how it polishes up.

Correct. And you need to go back to your Visas Marr avatar!

Reading Masters of the Vortex. Great stuff, and the influence it had on Star Wars cannot be overestimated. I NEVER want to see this made into a film or series by Hollywood though.

TavorX said:

regularjoe said:
All this talk of sidelining OT characters, do you think these people are going to live forever and keep reprising these roles?

If you want more and new Star Wars you’re going to have to make your peace with new characters, new story lines, new actors, new stories.

I was totally on board with Rey, for example. Very excited in fact. But just because I initially liked her character in TFA doesn’t automatically mean I’m happy with how they handled her and basically every character in this ST thus far. Who knows, maybe TROS will magically make me appreciate what they’ve been trying to do all along, but seems highly unlikely. It’s not so much having to make “peace” with the new stuff, I’m all for new stuff. It’s more so that in a lot of our eyes, they are squandering both old and new characters. Thus it all falls apart.

Ridley brought some nice spirit to Rey. She is pretty in an unconventional way too. Those scenes on Jaku showing her typical monotonous/pointless day were my favourite scenes of the TFA, and they show the potential in her as an actor and JJ as a Director…but it has all been squandered away I fear in the name of Girl Power and $$$$.

Spottyfriend said:

Slavicuss said:

Qui-Gon Jinn wasn’t necessary. All that was needed was Obi-wan and Anakin. The prequels could have begun with them already Master and apprentice, building their bond right from the beginning of Ep. 1 - instead of pissing away the first chapter on a little boy and his mom.

Obi-Wan should have been older, and already a Jedi Master in Ep. 1, and Anakin, a teenager not a small boy.

Lucas traveled too far back into Anakin’s past for the prequels. We could have been spared all the childish crap that swamped Ep. 1.

Completed agreed. That’s why I am a fan of (much of) Clone Wars - it does what the Prequel Trilogy should have been all about: Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship. Also, this is why the Machete Order is the superior watching order - it skips Ep. 1 and is better for it!

Interestingly, early drafts of the TPM did not include Qui-Gon (according to various sources). Man Liam Neeson was awesome as Rob Roy though! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_76dg61ns

It’s a faaaake!

Best line ever. Best Star Trek series ever.