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theprequelsrule

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Join date
2-Jun-2011
Last activity
25-Jul-2021
Posts
814

Post History

Post
#1441268
Topic
Going away? Post so here!
Time

Like the song says, I just came back to say goodbye.

I am done with Star Wars. It really no longer holds my interest (with the exception of my annual KOTOR 2 playthrough). I can’t be bothered to follow news about upcoming releases, could not care less if the OOT ever gets a proper restoration or release etc. etc. I can’t remember the last time I even had the urge to watch the OT.

I won’t ask to have my account closed…just in case I hear that they decanonize the ST and let Mark Hamill direct the REAL Sequel Trilogy.

It has been fun. Take care folks.

Post
#1417597
Topic
RocketJump's Video on Star Wars "being saved in the edit" is Literally a Lie
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

I wouldn’t call myself “pro-George” nor am I anti-George. That video (How Star Wars was saved in the edit) has been around a few years and I’ve posted it several places.

I see a lot of people on two sides where George is either a saint or the devil incarnate. That video is a conversation starter for both. I see comments claiming it’s misleading because George was actually hands on during the editing process and oversaw their work, while others use it as an example of how the people around George actually created Star Wars more so than he did.

Everyone references this or that article or interview, book and video. My interpretation is the truth falls somewhere between, as often is the case.

George’s star got really bright, and the creative contribution of some others got overlooked. Is this George’s fault? I’d say somewhat. They say every time you remember something, your brain changes it a little. It’s been over 40 years. George probably thinks a lot of things happened ways they actually didn’t.

Did George create everything or just chose what he wanted from the creative work of others? Did he invent technology or just push others to create it? Again, probably some of both.

I wish George would share the creative spotlight a little more and stop revising history. I wish he would be more of a brand ambassador like Stan Lee was for Marvel. But it is what it is. Star Wars wouldn’t be what it is without a lot of important people. Not sure you can remove any of them and be where we are today.

Agreed. George was the driving force behind it all…with Kurtz as wingman. There are a lot of quotes from George in the 1976-1984 period that show he understood how to make a great movie and was aware of his own deficiencies in certain areas.

As an aside Rodney, I also thought George was an uncredited editor of the final edit too. Can anyone clarify?

Post
#1413688
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

SparkySywer said:

My unabashed love for TLJ incoming: I think, though, that TLJ is the closest thing to the very knowledgeable deconstruction of Star Wars we’ll ever get. Despite what the youtube comments section will tell you, Rian Johnson knew his shit when he was making the Last Jedi. Although I’m not going to turn this into a long ramble about TLJ.

KOTOR2 deconstructed Star Wars 13 years before TLJ, and did a much better job of it IMHO.

The Last Jedi actually addressed and added to the ideas and themes of the Star Wars Trilogy, and it’s almost certainly the most divisive movie of the decade. Possibly the most divisive movie of the century so far, but don’t quote me on that.

See above. Yet, KOTOR2 never received the venom many spit at TLJ. Perhaps if released today it would. 🤷‍♂️

There are a lot of people who want Star Wars to be shallow popcorn action-adventure movies. There’s nothing wrong with that, there’s a need for that in cinema, and it’s all a subjective matter of opinion anyway so who am I to say that’s wrong. But if you want Star Wars to recapture its magic, and for it to no longer be an imitation of itself, they are your main adversary.

Or, maybe I’m just being a moron. I might also be falling into the “Episodes 4 5 6 and 8 were totally indie arthouse kino flicks and Episodes 1 2 3 and 9 were soulless corporate garbage” sentiment, which is also wrong.

In the end, if Star Wars can have any claim to being art, in addition to being such a source of joy and inspiration to others, is because it came from an authentic place within George Lucas. Whether or not it’s a “popcorn” film is irrelevant.

Post
#1412956
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

SparkySywer said:

When it comes to the fall of Rome, historians will typically say something about how Rome never really fell, it slowly faded away over centuries, but if you really need a specific date, here are some good candidates (235 AD, 476 AD, 1453, etc). One of these is usually used as THE date Rome fell (476), but almost always with the clarification that that’s not actually how it worked out.

Another Roman history buff? Excellent! My personal view is that Roman civilization disappeared starting with the The Last Persian War of 610-628 and then the Great Islamic Invasions 6 years later. The state that emerged at the end of this period a century later was not recognizable as Roman civilization any longer.

Maybe it could be something like that with the Galactic Republic/Empire. Here’s the date where the Jedi were officially declared enemies of the state. Here’s the date where the position of Emperor was created. Here’s when the Republic began imperializing the Outer Rim. Here’s the first major policy shift away from democracy toward autocracy. Et cetera.

My own attempt to create a backstory for the OT that I am working on in the script writing/re-writing section takes this approach. It starts with government corruption and economic difficulties (a widening gap between rich and poor), then comes The Clone Wars, then comes The Emperor. Even in the official canon we get a glimpse of this idea; in TPM Shmi effectively tells Padme that Republic authority has ceased to exist on Tatooine.

Maybe the date where the Jedi were declared enemies of the state is the 476 AD of the Republic/Empire. Generally accepted to be the turning point, where yesterday you had the Republic, today you have the Empire, but it’s just a convention created millennia later. Not all that much actually changed, and other historians in other contexts would use different dates for different reasons.

It would seem likely that the Jedi would not accept the end of democratic rule sitting down. So the destruction of the order would have to take place before, or almost concurrent with, Palpatine’s assumption of the title of Emperor. However; in the novelization to Star Wars Obi-wan talks about “the later corrupt Emperors”. This opens the possibility to the idea that there was an initial Emperor who was perhaps a benevolent despot - seizing power in order to save the Republic. Perhaps the Jedi served, albeit grudgingly, under the initial Emperor.

Problem is, all of the above would seem to contradict the novels opening crawl where it states that the Jedi had been exterminated at the behest of the corrupt government (the Moffs and Grand Moffs I would guess), that Palpatine declared himself Emperor (implying there were no prior Emperors). Here is the relevant text:

Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.

This also implies that Palpatine might not be completely evil. The line that “the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears” seems to imply that he was being kept in the dark (no pun intended) on what was going on in the Republic. The Moffs and Grand Moffs were the true rulers of The Galaxy Far Far Away.

Post
#1412793
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Supreme Commander, Grand Admirals and Warlords

Grand Admirals are an innovation of Palpatine. They are not necessarily in command of any particular Sector or Fleet but, similar to Grand Moffs, are put in charge of specific areas or specific missions as needed. They exist outside the traditional Imperial/Old Republic Naval hierarchy and answer only to The Emperor; their authority is his authority and disobeying their commands carried the crime of High Treason - which in the Imperial era was codified in law as an attempt to overthrow The Emperor. Summary execution (without trial) was the penalty.

Unlike Grand Moffs, Grand Admiral rank was permanent and would not cease to exist once their mission was deemed complete. A Grand Admiral outranked a Grand Moff in the Imperial Hierarchy.

Supreme Commander of the Republic forces was typically promoted from the High Admiral or Field Marshal ranks of Republic service. He had overall command of all Republican forces. Under The Empire the rank became mostly bureaucratic in nature as Palpatine would not risk a rival who had such forces under his command.

Warlord was a ceremonial title given to victorious commanders under The Empire. Only the greatest victories that brought great wealth and/or eliminated a major threat to The Empire could result in the title being granted. The recipient was allowed to wear gold piping on their uniforms. It also carried a substantial yearly allowance from the Imperial coffers.

Post
#1412663
Topic
do bathrooms/toilets exist in the SWU? discuss
Time

jedi_bendu said:

I don’t think anybody’s posted an image from this scene yet - in ‘Double Agent Droid’ from Star Wars Rebels, Wedge is about to the use the ‘refresher’ when AP-5 walks in on him. We don’t see that much of the room, though.

I always liked that term “refresher”. I think I am going to start using it in real life! 😃

Post
#1412661
Topic
Best Performance by an Actor/Actress in the Star Wars Movies
Time

bigalroz said:

Personally I think that Mark Hamill is superb in all the original films and doesn’t get enough credit for his acting, from naive farm boy in Star Wars, to a Jedi student in Empire finding out Vader is his father on Cloud City, then to mature Jedi Knight in ROTJ. The dual between Vader and Luke on the 2nd Death Star is easily the best light sabre dual in all of the Star Wars movies, not because of the choreography but because of the rage in Luke.

I agree. If anything, ROTJ suffers when he is not on screen. Ford and Fisher were so no wooden in it. Prowse/Jones are also great as Vader in ROTJ.

Post
#1412395
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Moffs and Grand Moffs

A rank that originated during The Clone Wars which combined civilian and military authority in one role. It was an emergency measure during a time of chaos that was need to coordinate both areas of authority. Moffs were thus either former High Admirals (who command Sector fleets) or Field Marshals who now gained civilian/judiciary powers in their Sector.

A Moff was in charge of a Sector, the largest unit of governance within the Old Republic. Grand Moffs were placed in charge of multiple sectors. These groupings were called Oversectors and the amount of territory (the number of Sectors) each one comprised could change as needed. Only where there had been an almost complete breakdown of government control in multiple Sectors would Oversectors be created and Grand Moffs be appointed.

Crucially, Grand Moffs are created via executive order of The President of the Senate and answer directly to his authority.

Post
#1412087
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

imperialscum said:

rocknroll41 said:

Welp, now we’re just going in circles here.

Agreed. I think we are not going to achieve anything by keep trying to make him/her see some sense in this matter. 😃

Well, I think there is an interesting philosophical discussion to be had in regards to establishing the quality of a piece of art. Or whether or not there can be good taste and bad taste in art etc. But that is beyond the scope of this thread.

Post
#1411910
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

I think the question we have to ask is if Truth can only be measured scientifically (that is - measured in a quantifiable manner), or if there is another manner of coming to it. There might be truth and falsity in art, but we can’t approach uncovering it like we would in engineering, medicine etc. We need, perhaps, a different vocabulary all together.

Post
#1411786
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

imperialscum said:

theprequelsrule said:

imperialscum said:

SparkySywer said:

rocknroll41 said:

Servii said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve already seen opinions of TFA and TLJ improve.

The OT is revered because it’s a well made set of films.

Art is subjective. If the OT was as objectively well-made as you say then why did places like Time Magazine and Empire Magazine shit on ESB when it was new? We also mustn’t forget that a lot of people also crapped on RotJ up until TPM was released.

Art is subjective, and the quality of a movie is subjective. But the OT is undeniably popular, and not simply just because it’s old or because le Star Wars fans are le dumb. It’s also incredibly influential, in a way the PT and ST, like them or not, never will be.

Agreed completely. As I stated so many times on these forums, films are purely subjective, there are no two ways about it.

Still OT has something special that extremely few films ever had or ever will.

To say “purely subjective” is a rather extreme position. There may be an element of subjectivity, but there objective elements. Is Britney Spears as good a musician as Mozart?

I think you do not understand the basic concept of objective/subjective. As a scientist and an engineer, I have a very clear idea of what objective and subjective is. The definitions of objective and subjective are actually pretty simple. Objective is something that can be quantifiable by a metric. On the other hand, subjective is something that cannot be quantifiable.

Are there some elements of films that can be quantifiable by certain metrics? Yes, there are. For example, like how many words from the script were faithfully reproduced in the actual dialogue in the film (you will get a percentage score). However none of the elements that are quantifiable really matter when we think about “how good the film is”. When we say “how good the film is”, we pretty much think of purely subjective elements. So what I said still essentially holds true.

And yes, Britney Spears can be as good a musician as Mozart, since it completely depends on an individual opinion. Music is also an art and therefore completely subjective thing too. Unless you will come up with objective metrics, such as “notes per second”, to quantify “goodness”, which does not make sense at all, as it does injustice to some of the great minimalist composers, like John Adams.

So taste cannot be measured? Talent can’t be measured? At least not by any quantifiable metric? Editing skill and decisions in film making, the pacing of the script, quality of special effects, composition of shots? These are all subjective by your definition, yes?

Post
#1411715
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

imperialscum said:

SparkySywer said:

rocknroll41 said:

Servii said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve already seen opinions of TFA and TLJ improve.

The OT is revered because it’s a well made set of films.

Art is subjective. If the OT was as objectively well-made as you say then why did places like Time Magazine and Empire Magazine shit on ESB when it was new? We also mustn’t forget that a lot of people also crapped on RotJ up until TPM was released.

Art is subjective, and the quality of a movie is subjective. But the OT is undeniably popular, and not simply just because it’s old or because le Star Wars fans are le dumb. It’s also incredibly influential, in a way the PT and ST, like them or not, never will be.

Agreed completely. As I stated so many times on these forums, films are purely subjective, there are no two ways about it.

Still OT has something special that extremely few films ever had or ever will.

To say “purely subjective” is a rather extreme position. There may be an element of subjectivity, but there objective elements. Is Britney Spears as good a musician as Mozart?

Post
#1411669
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

The Hutts

controlled a large mercantile Empire in the Midrim

Slaves, slaves, and more slaves. The Jedi led a crusade which smashed Hutt control and freed the slaves. The Hutts are great survivors though and quickly recovered to dominate the intergalactic grey market. 1000 years later, when the Republic declined, they came to be the de-facto rulers of much of The Outer Rim territories and slavery once again became common. Many a Senator was on the payroll of the Hutts, and his promise to stamp this corruption out was one of the main reasons Senator Palpatine was elected President of the Senate.

Post
#1411665
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Servii said:

I was wondering if the name was ironic, or if you used to think the prequels ruled until you had a change of opinion lol.

Cognitive Dissonance is a hell of a drug. I used to believe Lucas was a genius, so of course The Prequels had to be great! But by the time I joined this form I completely loathed them. Then I got excited about The Sequels…

Post
#1411657
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Servii said:

The planet celebration montage added in the RotJ Special Edition is stupid and doesn’t make sense. It wraps up the story too neatly to the point of being unrealistic, while the original version is more open-ended. Palpatine is defeated, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Empire is. And I always liked the EU version of events where the Empire falls apart due to infighting, but still exists in a fragmented, diminished form in later stories, being just one of many factions at work in the galaxy. That feels like a more realistic progression than that whole “Operation Cinder” business ending the Galactic Civil War within just a single year.

I can see a way in which the war ends quickly - but it depends on how loyal the military is to the ruling regime of Emperor, Vader, and the Moffs. If not very, then I can see massive defections quickly bringing back a Republican form of government. Or if the military is apolitical. But like you, I enjoyed the Legends EU take of the post-Endor situation, in which the military were strong supporters of the Imperial style government.

Then again there is post-TPM Legends and pre-TPM Legends EU - which differ on the composition of the Imperial military.

General Grievous is ridiculous. He should have never been brought over to live action.

There have been very few menacing droid designs in Star Wars, sadly.

Post
#1411651
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like what you’re doing here. It looks like you’re creating a chronology using the OT as your basis. It’s a neat idea.

Thanks! I am perfectly willing to use good ideas from the Legends and even (dear God) the PT as long as they don’t contradict the OT. As an example; I certainly like the idea of powerful quasi-military organizations (such as The Trade Federation) developing towards the end of the Old Republic.

Says the guy whose username is “theprequelsrule”.

Well, I thought I was being funny at the time. Possibly I was drunk. 😃

Post
#1411450
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

screams in the void said:

theprequelsrule said:

screams in the void said:

there was also speculation that Obi-Wan might be a clone of the real Kenobi . The theory was that Obi-Wan was Obi-1 .

Where and when did this happen? It has been mentioned in another thread, but when was this theory making the rounds in fandom? In the 80s? The lead up to the release of TPM?

^ In the 80’s , I was around for it ( first generation fan ) A lot of sci fi magazines and the people who wrote in to them speculated on it . Some of it carried over into the 90s before the prequels . Publications like Cinescape etc .There was also an issue of Star Wars official poster monthly that came out around 1978 or 79 that mentioned that the Storm troopers were clones .

Very, very interesting! I did not know that there was official material released so early on which established that the Stormtroopers were clones. I thought it was still speculation right up to sometime between the release of TPM and AOTC.

Post
#1411447
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

lightsabers and their relatives

At one time a popular melee weapon amongst elite forces throughout the galaxy due to tales of the Jedi’s prowess with them in battle

Yes, they can deflect blaster bolts if the user has sufficient reflexes.

Plasma blades are a similar technology utilized by The Mandalorians.

-Unlike a lightsaber, they generate significant heat

-they also draw much, much more power than a lightsaber, requiring the user to be in powered armour

-Often used by Assault Troopers during boarding operations

-The blades have a much more wild, jagged appearance

-members of the infamous combat unit known as The Knights of Ren was particularly renowned for their use of the plasma blade

Post
#1411442
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Servii said:

I like it. The idea of the Republic using droids makes more sense to me, since it’s more humane than using clones. I’ve tried doing my own prequel rewrites before, and I always got stuck on how to define the connection between the clones and the Mandalorians. Your idea makes sense, though I want to hear more about these Clone Masters.

As you are aware the PT introduces these other powers within the Republic: The Trade Federation, Banking Clan etc. The Clone Masters are one of these; geniuses when it comes to genetic engineering

-Maybe they create supersoldiers
-Maybe The Mandalorians, in their later years, are these supersoldiers
-Maybe The Republic rejects them when offered by The Clone Masters to replace Droid armies. Then the Clone Masters decide to take over the Old Republic. Or…
-Maybe The Republic was always based on clones and The Clone Masters revolt when the Republic plans to replace clones with droids - essentially putting The Clone Masters out of business.

Many possibilities 😃

I think I will name the species the Clone Masters belong to as the Spaarti.

Post
#1411437
Topic
If you had to keep one Special Edition change…?
Time

Original#Fan1 said:

Yes! We would have to say the fly over Cloud City by The Falcon would be the one we would like to keep. The Flyover gives a scope of the city buildings that you dont see in the original version.

Forgot about that. The exterior Cloud City scenes were quite nice I always thought. Dare I say that ESBSE would be almost good if Lucas had not included the damnedly pointless sequence of Vader returning to the Executor?

Post
#1411435
Topic
Ultimate Star Wars Saga: Tribute to DuracellEnergizer
Time

Clone Wars. Droid Wars (?)

The Republic will not use Clones, but fight against them. I like the idea of the Republic forces being based on droids with with live troops in a supporting role. The Jedi act as elite forces - specializing in both aerial/spacefighter combat and infantry engagements (two seemingly opposite areas of warfare).

Arrayed against them are The Clone Masters. They employ clone forces, genetically manufactured war beasts (like the xenomorphs in Alien), and later ally themselves with the Mandalorians to act as a counter to the Jedi.

Post
#1411431
Topic
Despecialized or the Special Editions; Which do you prefer - and why?
Time

Servii said:

Hey, man! Those were some rough years when the GOUT was my go-to way of watching the trilogy. As a kid, I had been so excited for the Blu-ray release. Then, after the Blu-ray came out, I heard about the new changes, and saw the clip of Vader shouting “Nooo!” in RotJ. That was the last straw for me regarding the Special Editions. I had accepted every change up until then, but that one was just too much. So I stuck with my 2006 discs for the longest time, only getting the Blu-rays so I could enjoy Harmy’s works of art.

Lol, well as an older teenager I looked forward to the 1995 THX remastered release. This was on a format known as “VHS”. 🙂

Before that the only versions I had were taped from network TV - often edited for time! And they were taped on a Video Cassette Recorder (VCR for short) that my family would rent from our local independently owned video rental store.