I would like to not use a 720p source... as it's quite surely not the original HDTV file - it should be 1080i...
Papai, as usual you - as a big JP fan - find useful info/links, and you are right about cropping.
I'm really proud of my work on JP1; considering that sources used are only laserdisc, watching it in motion makes me say continually "Isn't bad at all!"... but, unfortunately, I can't exclaim "This is very good!"... I face the reality: this is the best laserdisc-based version ever made, period. But it's the best version at all? Obviously not!
Here you are screenshots comparisons - top [ruLes] taken from VLC, resized at 75%, bottom WOWOW from the link above, resized at 50% - all via MSPaint:
Clearly, my [ruLes] here suffer from bad spatial alignement between the laserdisc captures - or indeed it was a laserdisc problem itself? I can't remember, really... oh, I'm getting too old... well, here we have different framing; the LD has more on top and right, WOWOW more on bottom and left; LD colors are not that good, clouds and trees are pinkish...
Here LD colors are better than the previous image, but have clipping whites problem; cropping are almost the same; WOWOW colors is better, maybe a bit too orange.
Here the LD cropping is better, having more image info on top, left and right, but again pinkish and clipping whites...
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
The ideal best version will have the LD cropping, with WOWOW definition and colors (slightly changed, maybe) - the latter should be better than the 2D BD, AFAIK; as it's not possible to do it, I must admit I'd prefer to loose some image portions, but have the best definition and colors, without clipping whites... I must remember to all that, when I started my JP1 project, I was not aware of the WOWOW HDTV, and I've done taking in accounts only the 3D BD.
Conclusion: do anyone needs to have JP1 [ruLes] into their collection? Only if you are a big JP fan that wants to have all the available versions, or is curious about LD soundtracks... if I receive more evidences that WOWOW is better than the 2D BDs, I could really think to do a new project using WOWOW video along LD audio soundtracks...
Could you please post some screenshot comparison links? In particular, between WOWOW, BD and (if available) LD?
IIRC, after I decided to do this (JP2) project, I noted that LD and BD have the same cropping; the JP1 3D BD is more cropped than LD, but probably it's due to the 2D->3D conversion... maybe JP1 2D BD has the same LD cropping; if it's true, the WOWOW should have the same...
well, more confused than ever now... (**/)
So, at the end, do exist open-matte HD versions of JP1 and JP2? If so, which are they?
The only one I found is this:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=36982
About color grading: a looong time ago (10 years ago or more) - and a loooot before I discovered this forum - that time I was only a "movie watcher" - the first time I watched ROTLA on DVD I said "Wait! I'm not sure those colors are right...", I took my LD, and managed to play them side-by-side (via PAP onto my CRT TV); the LD colors were way better than DVD... I should capture them, but my HDs are almost full...
dark_jedi said:
I do not have a video capture card on my new PC, I thought my days of LD video capture are done, so how do I rip just audio with VDub?
Don't know... I have video capture card into my PC(s) for the last seven years, so... (^^,)
although I would not mind finding a new video capture card for my Windows 7 Pro 64-bit machine just to have it, you know just in case, even though for now I do not think I will ever need LD video, are there any good cards out there that will work with my set up and will not break the bank?
To buy a video capture card is a good choice... even if you will not use LD video for your projects, it will help a lot when you have to sync LD audio if you have ALSO LD video - at least, this is my personal experience... I first sync LD video, than LD audio will *automatically* follows because it's just in sync with video.
I have not (yet) the WOWOW files, as this is only an idea, and (still?) not a future project.
Please explain: why I should use LD audio only with open matte sources?
And, regarding the 3D BD of JP1: if all my project is based onto the fact that the LD has better color grading than the BD, and you agreed and liked my project, why now the 3D BD has accurate color grading?!?
For my projects, I use only AviSynth through VirtualDub for all video (and many audio) processing... it's not easy at the beginning, though!
About JP and JP2 new projects (and extras, maybe), talking with zeropc I've had an idea: why don't use WOWOW video along with laserdisc audio? Also, if WOWOW color grading is off, I could always use the laserdisc for color reference... what do you think about?
I always use VirtualDub to capture laserdisc, both video and audio - AC3, DTS, PCM, analog... everything!
To capture DTS, just set audio capture to 44100hz/16bit stereo, and don't forget to set the right audio capture card!
Test it, and if you need further info, I'm following this thread so I'll try to help ASAP. Let us know your test results!
It is not possible to leave LD DTS "as is" if the final release will be BD, as LD DTS is 44.1KHz and BD standard is 48KHz; so, I had to decode to uncompressed, change sample frequency and re-encode it.
It could be possible to use untouched LD DTS with MKV container, and someone could think even to use BD video along with this LD DTS audio but BD and LD must have the same frame number, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, so... the only chance to hear untouched LD DTS with BD video is that you have to cut (or duplicate) BD frames, so that resulted BD video is frame-by-frame equal to LD, but in that case you should do AVC (VC-1,MPEG2, whatever BD codec used by the source)->uncompressed(or better lossless using HuffYUV or Lagarith)->AVC - and believe me, it's better to reconvert DTS audio than BD video...
I "borrowed" these links discovered onto the "raiders of the lost ark" thread - thanks dvdmike!
screenshot comparison - the chest
I strongly agree with dvdmike: if WOWOW has not the *right* color grading, surely it's better than BD - this is only my opinion, of course; but I'm not alone, as many prefer WOWOW over BD.
It seems to me that WOWOW has more details than BD - it could be used as source for a project, taking BD scenes (color graded) only when WOWOW has the *corrected* version.
BDgeek said:
I think it would be perfect to have the BD video with the wowow color timing!
And let's not forget the LD audio!
Of course, if I'll decide to do such project, I'll add LD PCM audio for english and italian too - I'm happy we had these trilogy on LD in Italy!
And, if our french forum friend have the three french laserdiscs and want to rip them (I'm pretty sure anwers are both positives) I'll add french LD PCM too!
Ciao Papai, I'm happy to hear you! I'm fine; finally here we could "breath" a bit, after really hot days! About JP extras: please forgive me, but I don't think to release them soon, as I'm planning several other interesting projects...
The next will be "The Matrix", and I'm almost ready to release "The Thing" - check them out!
I'm almost finished my "The Thing" project, and result is almost perfect (using HD-DVD as video and laserdisc as color reference)... what about using BD video and WOWOW color reference to obtain the best version? I mean, we could forgive some DNR on effect shots if we have right colors (or, at least, better colors), do you all agree?
dvdmike said:
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Take a look at this comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_sFW8grQtU
WOWOW has the original matte painting scene, don't know about BD (it should be the same); the bottom CGI scene could be found on HDnet.
You said the CGI was in the WOWOW then you change your mind with that clip while defending your position further?
It seems I wrote that the WOWOW has non-CGI scenes...
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Back to WOWOW: I'm sure that EP1 has original non-CGI scenes, while the BD has the *improved* versions...
Well, speaking about changes, the BD has the better version, right? I could live without glass reflection, by the way...
But - and we all agree on this - the BD has the worst color timing.
What about DNR, EE and film grain on BD?
Take a look at this comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_sFW8grQtU
WOWOW has the original matte painting scene, don't know about BD (it should be the same); the bottom CGI scene could be found on HDnet.
I'm sad because I have three similar PCs, all devoted (more or less) to video restoration projects, but two of them have their GPU burnt, so I must rely only on one of them... and most of the time, the last weeks it (and now, too!) it was busy on "The Thing" conversions... but I didn't forgot "The Matrix", at the contrary: now that I've done a lot of tests, I understood something more that could be used on it too... next days, I hope to start it...
Yes, they decided to redub Indy (maybe others? don't know) for the BD 5.1 italian soundtrack; while the dubber is very good, and I like it, his voice is NOT suitable for Indiana Jones... I mean, we (italian people) all grew with the original (dubbed) voice of Indy for decades, and now you (BD producer) would think to foolish us with a completely different voice?
I must admit they also include a 2.0 soundtrack... but its quality is really low...
Back to WOWOW: I'm sure that EP1 has original non-CGI scenes, while the BD has the *improved* versions... are you sure that there are NOT any other *improved* scenes on EP2 and EP3? Apart that, what about WOWOW's DNR and resolution? Color grading should be different, at least...
Last thing: WOWOW versions have japanese subtitles during all the movie(s), or only in the scenes with english writings?
Sorry for all these questions, but now I'm in and really curious! (^^,)
UPDATES:
Jonno has provided the english DTS-HD MA, along with the italian, french, german and spanish DTS soundtracks from the BD (thanks a lot!)
Today I finished to watch the last version of the video, but there were some frames with artifacts, so I must re-encode it (again)... I hope this is the last time! (^^,)
Apart those few frames (fixed using another color matching script), the whole movie looks really really good! I didn't think it was possible to obtain a so good results taking the laserdisc as color reference... so, I'm just thinking about the next projects...
There is one simple reason to not buy the trilogy on BD for us italians: they redubbed Indy with a new voice... this is NOT tolerable - apart the fact that there is DNR and that some scenes are *CGI improved*...
Were WOWOW versions available for all the three episodes (and for the fourth too)?
UPDATES:
I'm preparing the final video right now, using a bitrate of 20,000kbps (that should be more than enough to preserve the quality of the original HD-DVD); I prepared the subtitles: full and SDH for english, and full plus forced for italian, french, german and spanish.
FremenDar007 said:
Do you still want the DTS-HD MA audio?
At the end, I've left enought space (I think) to discard the DTS I've made from the HD-DVD DD+ and replace it with the DTS-HD MA... but it must be around 3.5GB... if so, please send me a P.M. with the uploading link - THANKS in advance!
BDgeek, thanks for the compliments! But without the help of the other members (Jonno in particular) this project could not be done!
I decided to drop the DTS-HD MA (if someone with the BD wants to use it, he just has to remux this project video with that audio); using all the soundtracks I listed, there is about 18GB for video, more than enough to retain the best quality available - think that the original HD-DVD video is about 12GB...
The video processing is finished, so I need only the total soundtracks data to know at which bitrate I should compress video to fit into the BD-25...
I think there is no need for the DTS-HD MA soundtrack, as the DD+ is good enough (I have converted the latter to DTS to be compatible with any BD player), and because two other soundtracks are present (Signature Collection LD PCM and Letterbox LD PCM).
But, if someone could provide the BD DTS-HD MA soundtrack, I'll use it instead the HD-DVD DD+ (kindly provided by Jonno); but please act fast, as I'd like to release it ASAP!
zeropc said:
i extracted the dts-hd audio to mono waves from the german blu-ray (same as the uk one) and compared them to the hd-dvd audio waveforms. the audio definitely goes out of sync. so it doesn't matter if one has the audio from us or european blu-ray, they both are affected in the same way.
A copy of the BD DTS-HD MA soundtrack (along with BD video really compressed, needed for synchronization) will be really appreciated... I *think* I could align it for my "The Thing" project.
zeropc said:
andrea, why don't you take the dts-hd audio from the blu-ray, instead of the hd-dvd dolby e-ac3? lossless vs lossy - i go for lossless ;)
Obviously the BD DTS-HD MA is better... but I have not it (yet); if you could provide it (along with some subtitles) I'll leave out the DD+ soundtrack.