spoRv

...or, try to put colors in the right sequence, and discover if you have problem recognizing colors (or if your display should be optimized):

http://www.xritephoto.com/ph_toolframe.aspx?action=coloriq

My score is 0, and this is the best possible score... so, my display should be optimized enough to let me see colors in the right way, and I'm not that old as I thought (at least, not about color vision)...

Now, i'm fully qualified to do any color grading project... (^^,)

Take a look, do your test (five minutes to complete) and post your score here!

I'm in no way expert on HDTV streams, but I admit that WOWOW versions are the best! I don't discard HDNet either - have not seen any others, could you post a comment with more info about OTA and sat HD channels?

I like D-Theater quality too... everyone today seems to be "codec masters" and says that MPEG2 has awful quality when used for HD, and H.264 is perfect. I agree that, at any (normal) given bitrate, H.264 is better than MPEG2, but when the latter has an enough high bitrate, it is capable to deliver very very good pictures, with not visible artifacts - or I'm simply watching my tv from too far, and I'm getting too old... (^^,)

captainsolo, thanks for your very informative comments: it's good to know that laserdisc PCM soundtracks still have remarkable qualities!

I have two italian PCM laserdisc version of ROTLA: the older is from Philips, while the newer is from Pioneer; maybe the old Philips soundtrack is like the NTSC P&S... I should find some time to capture both of them, and compare their soundtracks.

On WOWOW video; I have not the BD to compare, but I like all three very much, and despite what many think about MPEG2 compression used by the HDTV streams, the quality is really good!

So, what about the WOWOW video, with modified scenes replaced with the one from BD (color corrected to match the rest of the video) and PCM soundtracks from laserdisc?

I resume this old thread because I've discovered this webpage, and I found very interesting this paragraph in particular:

This paper presented listeners with a choice between high-rate DVD-A/SACD content, chosen by high-definition audio advocates to show off high-def's superiority, and that same content resampled on the spot down to 16-bit / 44.1kHz Compact Disc rate. The listeners were challenged to identify any difference whatsoever between the two using an ABX methodology. BAS conducted the test using high-end professional equipment in noise-isolated studio listening environments with both amateur and trained professional listeners.

In 554 trials, listeners chose correctly 49.8% of the time. In other words, they were guessing. Not one listener throughout the entire test was able to identify which was 16/44.1 and which was high rate [15], and the 16-bit signal wasn't even dithered!

That's why we all love so much laserdisc PCM soundtracks...

Could have been worst! At the end, what do you think about its video quality? I mean, it seems the BD has some EE, what about the HDTV?

I'm really starting to think to spoRvify this movie! (^^,)

I'm curious if this project is going on... and about HDTV properties (resolution, fps, codec, mbps) - is its video (apart color grading) equal or better than BD?

Thanks for the hints.

I solved problems like Tank scene, but the sky artifacts in the last scene is present also in ColourLikeFBF... if you watch carefully, the DVD is the cause - I'll try to solve it too.

Missing frames are at the end of the scene where Fuchs talks to MacReady in the snowplow, and at the beginning of the next scene where Windows walk in the room. At least, those frames where absent in the US HD-DVD I had available, but still present on LD and DVD... infact, it was strange that LD and DVD actually had more frames than HD-DVD...

Thanks for the compliments, these "things" (will I stop to write "things" in this manner in the whole thread? maybe not!) keep me going on, and start other new projects - talking about new projects...

Well, honestly I've tried to upload it to uploaded.net, but I gave up almost immediately... infact, I calculated that it will take more than a week to upload it, and only then people could download it (another day or two); with torrent, when a (relatively) lot of people are downloading, then it should download the file(s) faster... or am I wrong?

I strongly hope that, when finished downloading, watching and liking my work, someone with a fast internet connection will do it for you and for other users - I encourage it!

_,,,^..^,,,_ presents The Matrix [spoRv] project

The Matrix [special preserved or Restored version]

Project mission: restore The Matrix color grading using PAL DVD as color reference.

Video sources: luma from BD, chroma from PAL DVD.

Audio sources: from BD, plus the Cinema DTS soundtrack.

Subtitles sources: from BD.

The Matrix [spoRv]

Source Material

Video:

• The Matrix (BD) - from Ultimate Matrix collection
• The Matrix (PAL DVD) - first release

Audio:

• The Matrix (BD) - from Ultimate Matrix collection
• The Matrix - Cinema DTS soundtrack

Subtitles:

• The Matrix (BD) - from Ultimate Matrix collection

Processing setup & info

Hardware:

• Sony Vaio VGX-XL202 PC - CPU Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz, 3GB RAM, 250GB+320GB HDDs, BD-RE 
• Western Digital Elements 1TB - external USB HD

Software:

• VirtualDub and AviSynth for video editing
• Foobar2000 for audio conversions
• AVIdemux and tsMuxeR for demuxing/muxing

Project status: RELEASED - Final format: BD-25 

Video treatment:

BD VC-1 and DVD MPEG2 are converted using the Lagarith lossless compression (YV12); BD is used as frame reference; PAL DVD has the same frame numbers. ColourMatch avisynth script is used to match the DVD colors; where there are compression artefacts, or the cropping are different for the two sources, the upscaled and enhanced DVD will be used for those shots.

BD-25 video track:

• the original video format is 1920x796@23.976 2.40:1, average bitrate around 17mbps, video codec VC-1; the final video will have the same features, as it's useless (IMHO) to use an higher bitrate; of course, I will use X.264 because it's the best AVC encoder around, and should compress better than the old VC-1 encoder used years ago for the original video.

Audio treatment:

All the BD soundtracks will be left untouched; I will use all of them, except the TrueHD english soundtrack, and the AC3 japanese one, which was hidden. Instead, I'll add the Cinema DTS soundtrack, taken from the original theatrical CDs, converted to 48KHz, 23.976fps.

BD-25 audio tracks:

• English DTS Cinema, DTS 5.1 1510kbps, 48KHz, 24bit
• English AC3 5.1 640kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• French AC3 5.1 640kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• Italian AC3 5.1 640kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• Spanish AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• Portuguese AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• English commentary (track 1) AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• English commentary (track 2) AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• English commentary (track 3) AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• English commentary (track 4) AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit
• English commentary (track 5) AC3 2.0 192kbps, 48KHz, 16bit

Subtitles treatment:

the BD subtitles will be left untouched; will be used all the ones that reflects the soundtracks, plus the japanese and the dutch ones.

BD-25 subtitle tracks:

• english
• french
• italian
• spanish
• portoguese
• dutch
• japanese
• english for commentary track 1
• french for commentary track 1
• italian for commentary track 1
• spanish for commentary track 1
• portoguese for commentary track 1
• dutch for commentary track 1

Special thanks to:

nirbateman for invaluable help to find out shots to fix, and further help. Without you, this project could not be the same! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Credits:

• Jetrell Fo and DoomBot for the Cinema DTS soundtrack
• all the forum members supporting this project from this and from the other thread

Self comment (originally posted on July 20, 2013):

It's time to save "The Matrix"... sadly, the Wachowski brothers (ehr... brother and sister now?) decided that their masterpiece should be *corrected* to be more in line with their sequels, so they were *forced* to color-grading the first episode "greener than green", to match the sequels... who likes the whole trilogy think that it's a good thing, while the rest of us that think that there is only one MATRIX (the others are simply *extras*) want its original colors back!

While I'm not totally sure that the DVD colors are the most close to the theatrical version, this is the best color reference available at the moment. And, because it's nearly impossible that "The Matrix" will be re-released without its new "green tint", I thought to take the BD luma, the DVD chroma, a kitchen mixer and... wait, no, actually the method I used is *a bit* different... (^^,)

First tests: just overlay the BD luma to the (upscaled) DVD chroma. It worked... well, sort of, because the upscaled DVD cannot match perfectly the BD, even when the cropping are the same, and worse, the cropping are often NOT the same... so, I decided to give it a try with the avisynth plugin ColourLike. It worked... well, sort of, because yes, resulting colors are better than BD, but not so close to the DVD... then, AntcuFaalb posted a modified version, called ColourLikeFBF (where FBF stands for Frame by Frame), so I tested it, and... yes, you know, it worked (sort of), as colors are more closer than the classic ColourLike, but still not there...

At the end, I tested my ColourMatch script (the version I have NOT used on "The Thing"), and... BINGO! It worked... almost perfectly!

But let's see the usual comparison shots, in order of appearance (reduced 50%) - ColourLikeFBF made a good job, but ColourMatch made it better!

The latest ColourMatch version produces very good results, but because the BD has clipping whites, it produces some artefacts too (but way less than the first version)... so, the shots with artefacts will be replaced with... (horror!) upscaled DVD! Well, the final result is not that bad, check the test clip!

TEST CLIP (78MB, 4000kbps, no audio: sendspace)

Comments are welcome, as usual!

I LOVE "Event Horizon" ("Punto di non ritorno" in italian, that means "Point of no return"... why they change titles in that way, it's a mystery to me...)

If I have well understood, dvdmike wants to use the uncut VHS as reference, while using the BD and/or DVD deleted scenes as actual footage, right?

It will be a lot of hard work... so, count me in! (^^,)

Jonno have both the UK HD-DVD and BD, and he said that the DTS-HD MA matches perfectly; I think the problem could lies in the fact that the US HD-DVD has 12 missing frames in the middle of the movie, while the UK HD-DVD has the same frames than the BD... Jonno was really kind to capture those missing frames, sent to me, and I add them into the right place, so voilà! the DTS-HD MA is perfectly in sync... obviously, I had to change ALL the audio I made before, but this is another story... (^^,)

I've watched the whole movie twice before releasing: one, to discover WHERE in the movie were the artifacts - and almost of the movie was really beautiful; the second, to discover IF I have forgotten to fix some scenes - two, brief but annoying... so, the movies was 99% perfect, and I was so happy to re-watch "The Thing" ("La Cosa" in italian) and see that yes, this time the dog is black and white, the snow is white and not blue-violet-pink etc. I obviosly fixed that 1% that has artifacts, and watched it after fixing, so yes, the movie should be flawless... I suppose... well, 99% was perfect, 1% was fixed and replaced the wrong 1%, so it MUST be perfect! (^^,)

Should I start the next project ("The Matrix") right now, or I could have some rest, let's say a day or two?!?

To make a good job, the original 1080i MPEG2 (and not 1080p X264) should be used; maybe the 720p is good *enough* to be watched, but not enough to work on it...

First, I must to know exactly which version has the best resolution; it seems that WOWOW has the best, so I could use its video, and borrow the changes scenes from BD, re-grading only them; I'll add for sure english and italian, as these LDs are present in my collection. PDB nicely offered the soundtracks from the first two episodes, taken from analog P&S LDs, that are different from the PCM of the LB LDs.

If any other would like to add other languages from LD, I'll be very happy! The trilogy were available in german, french and spanish.

As I wrote before, the whole saga was redubbed in Italy *thanks* to George Lucas (and I strongly suspect it happened for other languages)... despite the fact that the new dubbing is not that bad, it changes completely the voice of a saga known here for more than 30 years!

If someone is curious... YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE6V6KU-q40

At least, they *made us a gift* including the 2.0 original sountrack present onto the DVDs... but if I'll start a restoration project, I'll include the original LD PCM soundtracks!

I'd like to know if the same happened for the english soundtracks.

@DoomBot: there is an HD trailer... I have it, but it's not color regraded (yet?) - as every bit of upload speed is taken from "The Thing", I'll post it later.

@Dark_Jedi: I updated the first post, you could see the last comparison clip or this final clip (dog)

@The Aluminum Falcon: thank you!!!

Papai, is there are 1080i HDTV proper version without logo?

You can see my PC configuration in the first post; when working with HD files, it's easy to use about 200-300GB of HD space, plus the video conversion took often a day or two!

dvdmike said:

The WOWOW has no DNR or EE and despite being only 2k can show more detail than the new 4k master.

They are slightly sharpened being made for TV, but that would be dialed down 

What kind of avisynth script would you suggest to reduce sharpening? What about WOWOW's grain?

UPDATE:

I'm proud to announce that "The Thing" is ready... you can find onto the usual place - you know what... I'll seed it for the whole week, before I'll go to vacation, so grab it... NOW!

...

I strongly wanted to release it with a proper menu, maybe animated, but I didn't find a free BD authoring - other than MultiAVCHD, but it has some problems onto my PC, probably caused by the computer, not the program... so, I decided to release it as movie-only, because there are a lot of people that could wait no more (including me)!!!

Anyway, if someone would like to do a proper BD menu, let me know - I'd like to add the HD trailer, and my "spoRv" video logo... (^^,)

Well, if you can't use that

 shitload of LD's

you could always think to donate them... to me, perhaps? (^^,)

Have you tried to capture via VirtualDub, without actually capturing video? Set the capture device to screen capture, set the audio input to digital/SPDIF, set audio RAW format to 441000hz/16bit stereo and test it - it *should* work.

penguinofgreatness said:

An easier way to do this (if you didn't want to completely recolor the blu) would be to to use the WOWOW as the main source, and replace altered shots with the bluray (these shots would of course be color corrected to what the WOWOW looks like).

It's difficult to say if WOWOW is better than BD, without a direct comparison with the BD... I've taken a brief look at WOWOW versions, and, apart some grain (that is perfectly acceptable for old movies like these) I like them very much - colors, details...

If the BD has less grain, due to the newer 4K scan (that should be applied only to ROTLA) and no DNR (apart in some effects shots), it will be better to use BD as video, and WOWOW as color reference.

If the WOWOW has no DNR and/or EE, and the grain is the same of BD, it's easyer to use it as the main video, replacing altered shots with regraded BD scenes.

PDB said:

It is similar but clearly the widescreen LD was re-mixed to be a bit more aggressive. I have it if you want it, just drop me a line.

Thanks for the offer - just please wait until the things will be more clear... if you can provide also video along with audio, it will be great, as it's easyer to sync. What about the other two movies, have you them, and do they sounds different from their widescreen counterparts too? And, right because we are here, what about P&S colors Vs LB colors?

dvdmike said:

I didn't pot the link, I made the link and took the shots 

I didn't know (or I didn't read about it?!?) Well done, you deserve the credit!

By the way, WOWOW looks really better... what about the THX WOW HD? Did you take it from that facebook video?

what about SKYHD or HDNET? do they exist?

dvdmike said:

Found or I posted, made and uploaded the page before last?

?!? sorry, I can't understand what do you mean... if it's because you posted the link before and I forgot to credit you, please forgive me, but as I'm following right now several Indiana Jones threads (one has nearly 2000 posts) and screenshot related pages, I had forgotten your post here... until now! (^^,) by the way, I've found it really by myself: http://screenshotcomparison.com/search typing "Raiders of the lost ark" (I was using it for "Jurassic Park" the minute before...)

PDB said:

Hi Andrea,

      If you do go forward with your Raiders Project. I can give you the PCM track from this disc:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/11024/LV-1376-WS/Indiana-Jones:-Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark-(1981)

which you probably already have but I also have  the analog Dolby Surround for this disc:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/11029/LV-1376/Indiana-Jones:-Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark-(1981)

which has different dynamics/surround mix. Let me know if you want it and good luck on the project if you decide to go forward.

Thanks for the help - you are right I have this along with the other two movies; but I was not aware that the analog soundtrack had different mix!