spoRv

Here you are:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/p2ay9p (119MB, 20mbps, no sound)I think that lowering a bit the saturation will lead to a better result, but I need your feedbacks anyway.

Give me the frame number or time, and I'll do it now; also, would you like to see two clips, or one clip with half screen corrected BD and the other 50/50 mix?

Yes, I know it has some problems, but this was only a fast test to compare color grading; hope to have few problems with the final version; hope it will be more like Halloween than The Matrix! (-^,)

50/50 seems the best way to go - "In media stat virtus!" - but I'd like to receive some feedback more...

Thanks for your opinion; I agree with you.

Color grading issue... I found that the BD and the DVD have completely different color gradings, but... which is "right"? I'm aware that the BD seems more natural; but Twohy used some warm grading in his movies (Pitch Black, Riddick) and I feel that the BD has too "cold" colors, while DVD has too "warm" ones... maybe a balance between them is the grading to use for the final project.

What do you think?

From top to bottom:

• untouched BD;
• corrected BD;
• 50% mix between ColourMatch'ed BD using DVD as color reference, and the corrected BD;
• DVD.

http://s27.postimg.org/oxmcieitf/The_Arrival_002948.jpg

this time the BD is warmer and DVD is cooler; following the "SnowWhite rule", I should choose the mix here!

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http://s27.postimg.org/s5qtvg537/The_Arrival_010679.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/8y3oyumrn/The_Arrival_017320.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/n9ilq0fk3/The_Arrival_049852.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/jfp5guy83/The_Arrival_054294.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/v8rjytk1v/The_Arrival_066139.jpg

this reminds me "Jurassic Park"... following what most people think about JP 3D, that it has the "right" color grading, then the DVD has almost the same one, so I should go for it...

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http://s27.postimg.org/6kh5u3iyr/The_Arrival_092344.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/mu7bwztmr/The_Arrival_146199.jpg
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http://s27.postimg.org/j1nth9e4j/The_Arrival_155981.jpg

Still continue to think that the mix has the best overall grading, not too cold nor too warm. But of course opinions are needed, as I'd like to start to work on this ASAP.

What if we make a single list? At the end, the movies with variable aspect ratios are so few...

bigrob, doubleofive, thanks; list updated.

What about the other list I mentioned in post #7, any interest in it? I thought to integrate it with this list, plus movies that exists in open matte (4:3 and 16:9) in high definitions and could be worthful to preserve, like Gladiator or The Matrix.

doubleofive said:

I'm pretty sure the thread is for movies that CHANGE ratios during the runtime of the movie, and if those changes made it to home video. That's how I understood it?

 Yes it is, but the movies bigrob is talking about could be integrated in the list I have mentioned before.

Done, thanks!

Galaxy Quest will worth a restoration in HD only for this (from IMDB):

The DVD release includes an alien soundtrack option, that allows viewers to watch the movie dubbed into the strange alien language used in the film!

Any interest in a list of Blu-ray titles with altered aspect ratios? Data will be "stolen" from here:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=180163

and maybe delete the 1.85:1 to 1.78:1 because the list is not updated anymore, and many of them are simply open matte - or I could do two lists.

I think it could be useful for our forum.

rockin said:

There is an open matte hdtv version of Gladiator around somewhere. I never found it, but it was shown with screenshots on the avsforum.

So this imply that you will be happy to see a Gladiator restoration using open matte for the whole movie, or variable aspect ratio? I think it could be cool, in both cases.

bigrob said:

Add Hunger Games Catching Fire to that list as it switches from scope to re-formatted IMAX sequences throughout

done.

one i would like to see would be Apollo 13

that was opened up for the IMAX version (but shortened as well due to technology contraisnts at the time). I have disc two from the R1 DVD set that contains the IMAX version and also had a 1.78:1 HDTV rip of the full theatrical cut as well on my laptop

bigrob, thanks, you have always interesting ideas! Can you tell me (or check) if the IMAX version AR is 1.78:1 as well? The HDTV version could be integrated along with the HD-DVD 2.35:1 when (if) the former has p&s shots instead open matte...

EDIT: merged this list with that one:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/List-of-movies-with-altered-aspect-ratios/topic/16466/

it will be not updated anymore, so please continue the discussion there, thanks!

List of movies with variable aspect ratio (in theaters AND in Blu-ray if not otherwise noted):

• Biutiful
• Brainstorm
• Brother Bear
• Enchanted
• The Dark Knight
• Galaxy Quest (3 ARs in theaters, 2 ARs in BD)
• Hunger Games Catching Fire (theater)
• Mission Impossible : Ghost Protocol (theater)
• Scott Pilgrim vs The World
• Star Trek - Into Darkness (theater)
• Transformers - Revenge of the Fallen (IMAX Edition)
• Tron: Legacy

don’t know if there are more, or any on DVD or other formats; if so, please let me know.

I watched only (Batman) The Dark Knight and at the beginning I was a bit confused; then I realized that with this presentation method I could see more than a “simple” 2.35:1 version, and I started to think about some movies that could be preserved using different sources, like open matte and letterbox for example.

I’d like to know what do you think about a movie released with variable aspect ratio, and if you like the idea of a fan preservation using this, let’s call it, variable aspect ratio method.

Never do I! New master quality is really astounding in comparison; is it HD or SD?

AXIS-ALIGNED POLYGON ASPECT RATIO™

What is the Axis-Aligned Polygon Aspect Ratio™ (or AAP A/R)?

It is an unconventional aspect ratio to represent a motion picture, using sources taken from different media, in an axis-aligned polygon enclosed inside a conventional aspect ratio screen.

How does it work?

If a motion picture is displayed in a screen with a different aspect ratio than the original - e.g. a film on tv, a 4:3 show on a 16:9 tv - there are different methods to do it. Of course, if the aspect ratio of both screens are the same, nothing will (should) be done, and the motion picture will be displayed "as is".

Letterbox

http://s12.postimg.org/f5fvl19t9/killbill03.jpg

Display A/R: 1.78:1 (or 16:9) < Source A/R: 2.35:1

If the display A/R value is lower than the source A/R, black bars will be added on top and bottom sides of the picture.

This method preserves the whole image AND the original intended aspect ratio.

Pillarbox


http://s12.postimg.org/717rgane5/Regular_SD.jpg

Display A/R: 1.78:1 (or 16:9) > Source A/R: 1.33:1 (or 4:3)

If the display A/R value is higher than the source A/R, black bars will be added on the left and right sides of the picture.

This method preserves the whole image AND the original intended aspect ratio.

Pan & Scan

http://s11.postimg.org/tt6k76v43/sw_scope1_33.jpg

Display A/R: 1.33:1 (or 4:3) < Source A/R: 2.35:1

If the display A/R value is lower than the source A/R, the only way to avoid black bars is to choose the most important part of the actual shot, and discard the rest.

This method does NOT preserve the whole image NOR the intended aspect ratio - as you can see in the bottom picture...

http://s11.postimg.org/732u0gmir/sw_scope2_35.jpg

Open Matte (or Full Screen)


http://s12.postimg.org/jz483mvot/Open_Matte_Rob.png

Display A/R: 1.33:1 (or 4:3) < Source A/R: 1.85:1

http://s13.postimg.org/ij36nv51j/se7enframing.jpg

Display A/R: 1.33:1 (or 4:3) < Source A/R: 2.35:1

If the display A/R value is lower than the source intended A/R, but a full frame version exists, is it possible to show the whole picture to "fill" the screen.

This method preserves the whole image BUT NOT the original intended aspect ratio.

Sometimes the full frame version is not available in the consumer market, but only at production level; with it, it could be possible for example to produce several versions with different aspect ratios; if someone would like to see as much picture as possible, there are two possibilities:

1. Obtain the original full frame version - if still exist, and is possible to obtain it
2. Make a "patchwork" using different versions that exist in the consumer market.

This is the aim of the Axis-Aligned Polygon Aspect Ratio™ (or AAP A/R).

Theoretical examples

"Ideal" AAP A/R - both versions fill the horizontal and vertical space:


http://s15.postimg.org/olxgq3mm3/Axis_Aligned_Polygon_Aspect_Ratio_0.png

More real example - one source fills the vertical space, while the other leaves black space on the left and right sides:


http://s15.postimg.org/v0whmrtbv/Axis_Aligned_Polygon_Aspect_Ratio_1.png

Here one source fill the horizontal space, and the other leaves black space on top and bottom of the image:

http://s15.postimg.org/74tcuzltn/Axis_Aligned_Polygon_Aspect_Ratio_2.png

Wrong application of the AAP A/R method; all four sides have black spaces, while only one axis should have them:


http://s15.postimg.org/nv4qkbk8r/Axis_Aligned_Polygon_Aspect_Ratio_3.png

Practical examples:

http://s13.postimg.org/fl1mgf807/aspectratioeq.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/u6x8ieu6f/bigjacket.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/3yhifakp3/21519.jpg


http://s28.postimg.org/d4hoz2u7x/05450.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/bialhcdvr/Rescuers2b.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/p31dggton/armchair_comp_jpg.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/44v7idttz/deep_focus_cave_comp_jpg.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/4dss8b6mf/Live_Hi_Res_Boxes.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/ci0wd1t1j/Seinfeld_HD_vs_SD_framing_compared.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/55vg7iatj/58872423.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/83h5okxsf/matrix_PLUS.jpg

It is possible to obtain an AAP A/R using not only two, but also three different sources!

http://s13.postimg.org/r8voayx53/bourne_identity_02c.jpg


http://s13.postimg.org/xchu8mcsn/bourne_identity_01b.jpg

(all images are 640 pixel wide only to be visually uniform, but some have the wrong AAP A/R)

Conclusion

This is only a tentative method; the only real examples are found as images on the net; as far as I know, no fan project using AAP A/R is existence, probably because the aspect ratio of each source is not fixed, but variable, and it will be really hard to adjust a whole movie scene by scene or shot by shot or, in the worst cases, frame by frame! Of course, colored thin lines will not appear in the final version of the AAP A/R version... (-^,)

If someone knows any project using AAP A/R - released or in progress - please post more info here.

Further reading: Slice Technique

I agree, 'classic' it's the best name IMHO.

Theatrical version with Cinema DTS track, eh? MMhh, interesting... but, will it differ (a lot?) from the BD DTS-HD MA track?

'normal'=perfect balance for my tastes!

...now you have *just* to do the full de-specialized edition... (-^,)

Thank you very much! I'm thinking about to use this method to make "The Abyss" using both PAL non-anamorphic and NTSC R6 anamorphic DVDs; but, just to "spice up" something more, I want to try to add also the NTSC non-anamorphic DVD and see if I can squezze some details more!

Added test clip to post #2 - it includes three shots from the PAL and NTSC DVDs, as seen in post 4.

Feedbacks are needed.

I watched every .m2ts file in the US BD... they aren't there... they simply (or intentionally?) forgot to put them in the production process.

Difference is subtle, but I spotted it in previous comparisons... (^^,)

Maybe a really-little-tiny decrease in saturation in the 'normal' version could be OK, but as it is now, it is not mandatory IMHO.

Another example: Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/63368

Feedbacks are welcome.

I used the PaNup method to improve a bit the quality of the upscaled DVD shots that will be used to replace the non-unrated same shots in the BD.

Here you are the difference between NTSC (DVD simple bicubic upscale) Vs PaNup (PAL+NTSC DVDs mixed, upscaled, denoised + grain plate) - WARNING: it's a rather gory screenshot!

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/63368

and this are the non-unrated version from BD and unrated version from DVD:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/63367

@DoomBot: don't know, from my PC everything was OK, but from my android smartphone it is the same as you noted... I edited the post, hope it will work now.

Thanks for your help! I kindly ask you to post your settings here too:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Final-encoding-which-software-do-you-use/topic/16425/

so there will be a one place for encoding settings.

Thank you very much! I like it best, overall color now seems perfect. Good job!

I suggest to post both 'normal' and 'technicolor' versions here:

http://screenshotcomparison.com

so anyone could see differences between them "on the fly".

May I ask you to post some screenshots from the 'normal' version?