PaNup: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

  • Reply
  • Print
_,,,^..^,,,_'s avatar
PaNup: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

Today I was thinkering with the "pyramid" LD capture, and, when I was looking for the files, I encountered an old test script for upscaling, abandoned two years ago. Idea was good, so I managed to improve it - as now I have more knowledge than at that time - and results are quite good.

The idea is simple: take two captures of the same content, one PAL, one NTSC, then merge them to "squeeze" every bit of details from it... everyone knows that a PAL capture has 576 horizontal lines, while NTSC has 480... now, when a movie was transferred to video, usually original resolution was higher than that (not all the times, but often); so, the PAL and NTSC "received" different lines of image... see the next image (obviously intentionally exagerated...):

As you can see, the red, green and blue lines have different thickness in PAL and NTSC; the aim of this technique is to combine those different lines to recreate an image closer to the original one.

To test my theory, I took some high definition images, resizez each dimension to 1/3 to simulate NTSC, and to 2/5 to simulate PAL, then I wrote a script to mix and upscale the simulated PAL and NTSC images. Here you are the close-ups of the results; PAL and NTSC are the simulated images upscaled with pointresize, PALup and NTSCup are upscaled using a bicubicresize, to simulate a simple upscaler, PaNup is my script (oh, how much I love acronyms - PaNup=PAL and NTSC upscaled) - no noise reduction is used:

(you can download original, simulated PAL and NTSC, and PaNup images here - 14MB)

Of course, the validity of this tests are questionable, as the PAL and NTSC images are simulated; nevertheless, these give an idea of what could be achieved using "simple and poor" low definition media, like VHS or better laserdisc, and DVD too! Not HDTV, OK, but still quite a good result.

The problem is, in real like, it's close to impossible to find a movie which has a PAL and NTSC version that match each other 100% - usually they use different masters, so cropping and color grading are different... but, in those almost-impossilbe cases where a PAL and a NTSC laserdisc (and VHS) are virtually the same, the ideal condition is to capture the PAL at 768x576 and the NTSC at 640x480 (actual letterbox images at 2.35:1 will be 768x326 and 640x272, at 1.85 will be 768x416 and 640x346); if the capture card could capture at 720x576/480, only the Y axis will benefit - this is also the case of DVD.

Real life test could be found in this thread.

Last edited on September 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM by _,,,^..^,,,_ (Reason: simple correction)

   "IT!. . . COULD! . . . WORK!!" 

 

released: SW:ANH [OT) | SW:ANH ['97) | Jurassic Park | The Lost World: JP | The Thing |

Chewtobacca's avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

That's an interesting concept.  Another potential pitfall is, of course, that a number of PAL LDs and DVDs use NTSC masters e.g. the SW and ESB GOUT DVDs.

_,,,^..^,,,_'s avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

I'm quite sure the THX PAL laserdisc don't use NTSC masters - as they often have more resolution than GOUT DVDs, but almost sure the original masters used are the same, as it seems there are the same faults...

The problem is it's almost impossible to align the PAL and NTSC perfectly... but that's "almost" is that what is interesting...

Take a look at the link I added to the first post to have an idea: the captures were not high quality, and not perfectly aligned, but result is everything but bad!

It will be interesting to find a movie which has not any HDTV version, but has PAL and NTSC versions - both laserdiscs or both DVDs - to test.

Anyone who happens to have PAL and NTSC versions of the same movie, that are perfectly spacially aligned each other, and want to share some clips (10/20 seconds long, lossless), please P.M. me as I'd like to test this script further.

   "IT!. . . COULD! . . . WORK!!" 

 

released: SW:ANH [OT) | SW:ANH ['97) | Jurassic Park | The Lost World: JP | The Thing |

Leonardo's avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

This looks interesting, Andrea, I'm impressed at how you were able to regain some details, like the numbers in the B&W test card. I think this script could prove very useful.

Do you reckon it could also be useful for VHS ?

  

 

... And they had 'The Empire Strikes Back', the fifth of the four Star Wars films. He is fucking with us numerically, isn't he! "Children, count up to ten." "Four, five, six, one, two, three, ten". No, it goes, four, five, six, one, two, three… No, it goes: four, five, six. One... Two and three have not been made." "Two and three have not been made! What should they be?" "What should they be? We do not know. All we know is that there will be a big floppy character in it that goes, squawk squawk squawk... who needs a punch up the bracket!"

_,,,^..^,,,_'s avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

It should work with VHS too, but, as it has lower resolution (especially chroma), results will be less impressive, but always better than "straight" PAL or NTSC capture... I'm working right now with another test, I'll post it soon (I hope...)

   "IT!. . . COULD! . . . WORK!!" 

 

released: SW:ANH [OT) | SW:ANH ['97) | Jurassic Park | The Lost World: JP | The Thing |

_,,,^..^,,,_'s avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

Here you are a "fast and dirty" real source test... I found into that old HDD two files; first is the PAL GOUT, second is a 1997 SE test that msycamore posted about a year ago...

GOUT is PAL letterbox, and myscamore's test is NTSC anamorphic; the latter has (obviously) a different color grading, and different cropping too... to match a bit the colors, I ColourMatch'ed the latter to be similar to GOUT, then I added some borders to trying to align spacially the two images... as you can see, this is one of the worst cases, as there are three major problems to solve (letterbox Vs anamorphic, color grading, different cropping)

I cut a small clip (32s) because after that the SE had different scenes; playing the PaNup video shows that many scenes are visibly off alignment, while others are almost in line, in particular the last one... here you are some screen shots:

(you could note some artifacts onto the NTSC due to ColourMatch script)

I eagerly wait to test PaNup with proper material...

   "IT!. . . COULD! . . . WORK!!" 

 

released: SW:ANH [OT) | SW:ANH ['97) | Jurassic Park | The Lost World: JP | The Thing |

drngr's avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

I have the original Matrix in both NTSC and PAL, same colors, but slightly different cropping and different sizing. Let me know if you want some clips.

_,,,^..^,,,_'s avatar
RE: PanUp: or, how to upscale PAL + NTSC capture and live (quite) happy...

As the BD exists, they are not nee... WAIT! As I have some problems with my "The Matrix" project, and I must replace some scenes with upscaled DVD, why not? I have the PAL DVD, all I will need are some NTSC lossless scenes... I'll let you know, thanks for your offer!

   "IT!. . . COULD! . . . WORK!!" 

 

released: SW:ANH [OT) | SW:ANH ['97) | Jurassic Park | The Lost World: JP | The Thing |

Members reading this topic: None