skyjedi2005

I would just say its 2 dudes own personal opinion if that opinion was not echoed on every Lucas worshiper site like an echo chamber.

They are like ditto heads.

Not saying ot'ers are any better, but they are for suppressing film history and are on Lucas side, we are for presevation and saving the movies that made movie history.

We want the films to remain how they were, they want changes and have wish lists of what they want changed in any next release.

Even though i am not a faneditor or fan edit watcher, i cannot fathom the comparison of them to Lucas are they billionaires, are they destroying art and a cultural legacy by permanently altering original camera negatives and replacing them with bad 1080P locked in cgi versions?

They are the TFN guys peoples around on this site mock mercilessly for believing Lucas stories of his original vision.

His original vision he now changes every five to seven years, now no longer every decade or every twenty years.

Can we seriously Hope the 3-D is the last step in the erasing of a classic film series and replacing it with whatever you want to call this butchered mess is that is no longer the film that won academy awards and lasting appreciation from fans.

Tobar said:

So the Forcecast released a new podcast today. It's pre-recorded and they apparently only had heard the first two audio leaks from the blu-rays. I have to say it's pretty sad listening to them try to justify the changes while you can hear the disappointment in their voices. You can listen to the podcast here.

Here are some highlights:

54:32 They first start discussing the blu-rays

76:54 They discuss rumors of the ewok eyes being changed and Jason confuses the 2004 release with tweaks done to Greedo in "Star Wars: Revised"

79:59 Jason reveals his love for Hayden in ROTJ, Jimmy reveals his disdain for the change in pacing with the added shuttle and changed dialog in ESB

91:38 Jason reveals he had never noticed the Emperor's slug before and neither of them had ever heard the term "Emperor's Slug" before

93:16 Jason extolls the fact that George changes the films in each release and that to him it's like Christmas

94:33 They discuss how they learned a year ago from Matt Wood that in 2007 he, Dave Accord and Tom Myers had gone back into the audio to "clean it up"

95:50 the start of Matt Wood's discussion

99:25 They play the leaked audio of the new Krayt yell and quickly try to justify it, call it cool and ominous

101:01 They spend two and a half minutes trying to set up and justify the new Vader dialog before finally playing it

104:21 After the clip they both kind of pause and stumble before launching into justifications

111:25 They hint that maybe the vader scene isn't real anyway

WOW i thought TFN was pathetic before but occasional they can be critical if an EU book sucks or whatever, but this kind of sucking up to Lucas is beyond pathetic.  Its like a cult and they have found out their "god" cult figure of worship is a fraud but don't want to even believe it.

Either they get free stuff from Lucasfilm like review copies of books and DVDs blu rays and don't want to blow that or they really are drinking the cool aid.

I see with the star wars revisited comment they are making a dig at Adywan if that is what your revised transcription means, i won't even bother to listen to the forcecast they have jar jar and jedi rocks as opening themes on it its headache inducing.

I love how these Luca$h lovers always bring up Adywan as if Adywan is the reason Lucas violated and butchered three classic films three fucking times already and won't put out the originals, and is preparing to ruin then again in another 5-7 years in 3-D.

Do we really need 3 more goddamn fake original vision version of the same damn films and no release of the originals, my god this has gotten beyond the pale of ridiculous.

Darth Vader.

Who i am completely sure Lucas never understood since he ruined this character with those prequels.

Episode III had you rooting for Obi Wan to put that whiny little bastard in his place, instead of caring you laughed as he burned in the lava.  That sociopath psychotic child killing bastard deserved it.

Seems what you are looking for is Lucas apologist. Cannot get anyone better than Ebert.

Not going to be me to say anything positive about them prequels or indiana jones IV, excommunicated i know.

I can say something nice about howard the duck, Lea Thompson is in it,lol. 

I can even say something nice about the star wars holiday special the fett cartoon was the only good part.

What is cool in the prequels would have been someone of Christopher Lee's talent not being used in such a poor way.

The amount of talented actors, minus Hayden and the non performances and wooden acting Lucas got has to take a kind of talent, no other director could have had Terrence Stamp, Liam Neeson, Ewan Mcgregor, Natalie Portman, Ian McDiarmid and get terrible performances from them all.  Add in Christopher Lee starting in Episode II and III, and its almost a crime.

He managed to also get terrible performances from Frank OZ, someone who did great performances under the direction of Jim Henson, Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand.

How in the hell do you mess Yoda up or Darth Vader for that matter, such widely known iconic characters, Lucas even got Chewie wrong in Episode III.

Maybe if they put out Kotor 3 and Battlefront 3 on the 360 i would have fun, but that makes no sense at Lucashfilm, lucasharts etc.

Did not someone in another thread talk about Luke's Neverrrrrrrrrrrrr!, and thats not true its impossible. noooooooooo!

Supposedly the defense of the prequels is Lucas was just copying Hamill's whining with hayden and the bad acting was to match.

Then there is the NO I am your father.

 Also the emperor in Sith, no you will die,lol.

When i think of Luke whining i think of the power converters thing or having to stay on another season, when i think of Hayden Anakin whining i think of its obi wans fault hes holding me back and throwing the wrench, telling padme he commited genocide on sand persons.

I find it hilarious that we now need a 2004 prservation because they changed things on the blu ray.  What every five to seven years we will get new changes of these movies, its patehtic.

Now WookieGroomers releases have a reason to continually exist.  They will be the only way to watch the 2004 in HD quality.

I am surprised fans who liked the 2004 do not want a fixed 2004 version and not this 2011 pig in a poke.

As much as i hate cgi redoes if i owned an ultimate set what i would have liked beside the oot is the 1997 and 2004, fuck the noooooooooooooo vader saga set.

As a side question who is not tempted to get the set just for the deleted scenes prequel and original trilogy and documentaries?

Like someone who is a fan of the novelizations or screenplays and has a favorite scene that was axed.

Lucas knows that oot fans have wanted the deleted scenes and vintage documentaries  for years, he is now selectively releasing them, but he still has fans by the balls by forcing them to buy the 2011 special edition and prequels to get them, they will not be sold separately or in a set that includes the oot restored and only with those as special features, or nor commentary with hamill, ford and fisher. 

Instead he used archive stuff. and gave us this crap we did not want.  We have to buy a sandcrawler, or death star sized barge of horshit just to get those deleted scenes and non restored documentaries.  Lucas could not even afford to transfer them from existing film prints or use the o-neg, like the gout they are archived old digital video tapes from the 90's.

Oh so he allowed them in house to transfer the deleted scenes in HD well ladie frickin dah.

I want THX 1138 with the original walter murch mix, and the same with graffiti on blu ray or DVD.

The new fake 5.1 or 6.1 is garbage the new color timing and dvnr is garbage because it erases the gritty grain structure of techisccope and takes away that documentary feel.

I want the original monaural and stereo mixes.

Some of course appreciate the HD video look and the fake new cooked up mix, i do not.

Every one has their own tastes.

I would rather have original even in worse quality with original audio.  To restore would be to change nothing only to bring it in the blu ray format quality, minus dvnr and new audio created that did not exist when the film was made, but they can always add the 6.1 or 7.1 on there as long as the real audio track is not missing.

Sorry for derailing your thread X0.  Just wanted to point out my feelings on how i watch a film.  I refuse cgi revisitations of movies, i refuse them even if they are tastefully done like the blade runner final cut. 

I don't mind owning the redoes if the come in a set with the original or are not a replacement and i have the choice.  Something Ridley Scott and Spielberg get, yet Lucas is not making sense about.

He does not get that film-goers especially in the USA vote with their wallets, that we should have the choice that it is fundamentally an American ideal and Democratic to have choice.  He seems to think directors are like dictators or like Stalin and can say we cannot watch the original version of the film we paid to see already and which frankly made him a billionaire multiple times over with all its merchandising and the fans loyalty to the brand.

No Dark Jedi believe me LD and DVD look like shit on a 1080P screen.

My brother has one.

I just don't feel the need to replace all of my stuff even if i get an HD set most of my movies are laserdiscs, which will have to be replaced with the DVD or blu ray.  But I refuse blu rays that have new remixed audio, new cgi added and or new color timing or dvnr.

In fact the bigger the screen the more horrible dvnr is.

a 42 inch screen makes a film ruined be dvnr look like a smeared video.

dark_jedi said:

LOL, like I said, some here have HUGE boners over these laserdiscs still, and it cracks me up, and to think the X0 is SO great is funny to, I looked at the raw captures of Star wars(I think Zion is the one that upped it) and it is NO different than my raw capture after IVTC from my Pioneer Elite CLD-79, but some just think they are going to make a "Grail" from this, well that is cool, I CAN'T wait to see a laserdisc capture masterfully upscaled to 1080p with this so called, black magic, gray magic, white magic process, too funny, my opinion only, well it seems I am not alone in it.

Laserdiscs had their purpose a few years ago, now they serve NO purpose but for audio, or special features, or maybe a scene or two, or color examples, etc. these just look like pure SHIT on nowaday systems, and if you don't think so, then YOU don't have a nowaday HDTV setup, unless it is in the 20 inch or smaller range.

Laserdisc still serves a purpose it is the only place outside of vhs you can watch the original American Graffiti or THX 1138, and we all know all the gout was a laserdisc master ported over.

Lucas is probably the only person i know of outside of Disney who keeps their classics altered without offering choice.

Well there are younger fans of the clone wars cartoon like my 11 year old nephew who think the prequels were absolute garbage.

His favorite scene comes from the phantom edit bonus material, where jar jar dies by falling over the waterfall in the bongo.

I see everyone is nostalgic over that vaporware project.  Formerly known as X-0 or X Zero.

I Love Multiverse, but then again i am a fan of Micheal Moorcock, and i am interested in the science around multiple universes co-existing or multiple worlds.

There are certain things that do annoy me though like inconsitent rules or canon.

I agree for star wars though multiverse is daft. so is time travel.

In Star trek it works.  In Marvel Comics or DC it works.

When you are trying to write a cohesive saga of 9 films, a family saga like the Skwalker saga it makes sense to not do multiverse, but now we have such a thing because the oot no longer exists and nor do the sequels or promised prequels which were never made and what was made was completely inconsistent with the established universe.

I was just showing an Irony that happened in 1996, Lucas thought the scene was good enough already.

If it had bothered him i am sure we would have gotten some really bad cgi Walker Replacement.

Had he redone it today he would try and tie it in with the attack of the clones walkers.  I hope he leaves it alone.

I meant Owen Lars as Obi Wan's brother not Anakin's.

Read the Jedi novelization that was canon before Lucas changed it in attack of the clones by making anakin the step brother of Owen, and that whole cliegg side story and dumb part  where Anakin's mom dies.

So the 130 Million he personally  put up for menace would not hurt as much with merchandising involved?

Even Peter Jackson who calls himself an independent needed studio backing for lord of the rings.  Lucas funding the prequels for whatever the total cost before gross profits is pretty much unheard of as far as i know.

This is why he had to keep costs down, use cgi and do them cheap, and streamline the process so he used Video on clones and sith instead of film.

I am sure in the beginning it costs more but as he went along he would save in the long run?

We know he had fox put up the money for the 1997 special edition restoration, the prints and distribution costs handled by them.  they gave Star Wars copyright back to Lucas too all in exchange for the right to distribute the prequel trilogy,  the last part never confirmed but certain.

I can sort of see Lucas thinking on Clones and Sith, let skip a step instead of digitizing the film and then editing it digitally, since the final product is going to be digital anyways before printing back to film, if not projected DLP, then why not skip the whole film process altogether.

Though i am personally against the use of digital instead of 35mm i think digital looks like video.

I did not feel any different with Avatar either.

I will wait to see P.J.'s Hobbit before i make my review of the red digital epic camera capable of 5k resolution.  Better than film.  But does not mean without the grain structure its going to be as nice as film looks to me at least in terms of aesthetics.

just wanted to point out to anyone interested that the old style analog machines like the teac, are very expensive if you can find one in working order.

Also these reel to reel tapes on magnetic can be very brittle and also warp in storage.

Just a heads up not a buyer beware.

I am sure their are perfect copies out there.

Well Lucas did not replace Tippett's stuff with cgi did he?

The Walkers are still the same.  The Rancor is the same only recomped, the tauntaun has not been changed as far as i am aware not even on the blu ray.

Muren thought the Walker sequence in empire should have been completely redone in cgi and Lucas said it was not necessary, it was Lucas who saved the original scenes from being violated by cgi.

When Tippet said this was he talking about the prequels?

"Pepsi Cola or whatever, paid him $3 billion to do the next three movies as long as he worked and directed it, so..."

If that is true it puts them in an entirely new perspective.  And proves something i have known all along he only returned to do star wars as a money making venture, and for a nest egg for his children after he is gone.

Also to keep his companies afloat, films like Howard the Duck, radioland murders, or the young indy show don't exactly make the bucks.

For the Phil Tippet's and Richard Edlund's of the world history has turned against them with the replacement of real practical effects and models with cgi.  And Dennis Muren is one of the culprits.

Still The guy who kept the old ILM in business under another name had to go bankrupt right?  Lucas with his billions could have kept it open as an idiosyncrasy or as a kind of window to the past or museum, but that is not good business.

Wasn't it called Kerner optical or something?

Well they did omit Obi Wan's longer narrative that mentioned More about Anakin, and that Owen Lars was his brother.

It is in the novelization though i doubt it was ever filmed, i am not even sure it made its way into the shooting script.

I do know it was something Lucas, Kasdan and Marquand talked about in the  sessions where they worked on the story.

Hopefully the transcriptions of those verbal story brainstorm sessions will be on the book by rinzler on ROTJ.

You could be right about one thing though Lucas as control freak he backseat directed Jedi and that just barely came out okay, he backseat directed Crystal skull and it was horrible.

Zombie i don't trust Spielberg not after War of the Worlds, Indiana Jones IV and Transformers 1-3.

He clearly has no idea what quality is anymore, just like Lucas.

Last good film Minority report, or saving private ryan.  And even those are no, jaws, close encounters, e.t. or raiders.

Of course that is my opinion and everyone has one.

Also don't forget he directed the cgi for the mustafar lightsaber duel the one over the lava, and said episode 3 made him cry.  Neither Spielberg or Ford had the integrity to challenge Lucas supersized ego on Indiana jones IV they just caved, the whole we refuse to do Indiana jones and aliens thing since 1993, they just showed up and phoned it in because they owe Lucas a personal debt, and are friends with him.

captainsolo said:

Sky, do you remember that asking price? I'm curious as to what people would ask for SW. I've seen some IB prints on collector listings sell for usually several thousand or so.

I think it was like 2 grand or something.   Too much for me .

Now all we need is a truthful telling of the making of the film, and i hope Fans hold Rinzler to that, to a certain point i mean.

Not to the point it would get beardy mad at him and get him fired.

You can bet the matter of Marcia and the divorce will be skipped over, even though that is a huge reason for why star wars is as it is today post 1983.

Like a pro she finished her editing on Jedi even though she and George were done.