sherlockpotter

Looking at the De-Blued Luke comparison, I like the partially de-blued look (which I believe is what is in V1?). Maybe I’m thinking of the Special Editions or something, but I feel like Force Ghosts have always had a blueish glow to them. 100% de-blued just seems like, “Oh, hi Mark [Hamill]. I thought you were dead?” Seriously though, the wig looks so stupid after jonh’s haircut version. It’s like Podracing said - I never noticed it in the theatrical; but now that I’ve seen the improvement, y’all have ruined the movie for me.

With the Luke dialogue, what’s currently in V1 is: “Because you’re a Palpatine. Rey, some things are stronger than blood. Confronting your fears [blah blah blah]” yes? I think it’s fine in context. It’s implied that he means who she is (as a person) is more than just some DNA she inherited from her grandPalpy; I don’t think it has to be explicitly stated. I like Hal’s idea of “Some things are stronger than blood: your spirit, your heart. If you don’t face Palpatine, it’ll mean the end of the Jedi,” but I don’t think it’s necessary.

For the Ahch-To color grade, I’m inclined to agree with the others. Night looks really good so far (maybe we could make the Ghost Luke a little brighter, to show that he’s actually glowing against the darkness? Symbolism!!), but I don’t like the sunset. For one, it just makes the whole first part “orange sky, orange light, orange fire…” it feels very monochromatic. For another, the timeline feels very rushed. It feels like night only lasts about 25 seconds on Ahch-To. If it were all nighttime until the end, I think it would flow better.

Also, I still like the idea of a purple sunrise in honor of Leia, but that may just be me.

Regarding the Kylo/Falcon/Dice scene, I’ve created two variations. I originally posted the first one in Hal’s Ascendant thread - it features a new establishing shot I made of the Falcon interior, followed by a shadowy figure entering the cockpit and pulling Han’s dice (that we can assume Luke hung back up in TLJ) down from the Falcon.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QhWobZwNLY48z7lDrsKcqSNNTlUHlS2W/view?usp=sharing

I also was working on a Kylo-focused version, using the fantastic cleaned footage provided by 21C Peasant. The color grading I did could probably be cleaned up a bit, and the biggest problem would be tracking the red cracks onto Kylo’s helmet - I’d definitely need help with that, but the new shadowy coloring might help to hide any seams - and there’s an issue with the lights turning on behind the dice between cuts. But I dunno, maybe it has potential?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E_JDxFFn9ycFFok58v96-ilqEIhflDmn/view?usp=sharing

Interestingly, I realized that I don’t like it if we both see Kylo, and see the dice being taken down. It feels way too on the nose for me. So in the first version, there’s at least some visual ambiguity of “Oooh, who just took the dice?” In the second version, I inserted a shot I extended of the dice, and then cut to Kylo rejoining his officers. It’s then a question of “Did Kylo take the dice? Or did he abandon “Han” yet again?” After the Death Star fight, we’d see that, yup, he did take them after all! And that will be the key to Han appearing again.

Or, if you still hate the dice, the shot could easily be removed. (Which would make the sequence easier to edit, honestly.)

Movies Remastered said:

I’ve been trying to replace the Lando and Janna final scene with one of Lando by Leia’s bed side. Can anyone think of any usable dialogue to use here? The whole “give Leia my love” and Rey saying “You should tell her yourself” was never paid off but would’ve been such an easy and respectful scene to do.

First of all, I’m glad I’m not the only one who had an issue with the Lando/Jannah scene. Great idea swapping the other scene in!

Maybe he could say something like, “It was thanks to you, that’s how we won.” Or just simply “Thank you, Leia/Princess”?

NeverarGreat said:

Hal 9000 said:

If I recall correctly, Sir Ridley helped remove the timecode as well. It was some advanced, painstaking effort and far from automatic.

That’s correct. SirRidley did most of the work on the Leia scene timecode and I just tackled one complicated timecode shot in that scene. It’s really painstaking, and this page details how I did it with moving objects in the frame:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Force-Awakens-The-Starlight-Project-WIP-WORKPRINT-RELEASED/id/54912/page/7

There might be better technology now which can better automate the process.

Oh dear God, I had no idea the process was so painstaking. Hal’s right, we definitely shouldn’t worry about it for the Falcon scene in V2. That said, thank you for helping to make the other shot viable in TFA! It really adds a lot of context for the whole Resistance movement.

EDIT: Hal beat me to it. Let’s use his list, for obvious reasons.

Here’s everything I could think of that’s still in development/discussion for V2. Jump in if I’ve missed anything, and I’ll edit it into this comment:

• Pasana Puppet Show (In development)
• Potentially recoloring Ahch-To to go from nighttime to sunrise? (Discussion – I don’t think we decided one way or the other. I personally like the idea though. Plus, if the sky becomes purple at sunrise, it would symbolize Leia’s new lightsaber color.)
• Finishing lightsaber crackle effects (In development – God bless the heroes working on this one)
• Lightsabers fizzling out near the end of the Death Star battle, and after Palpatine’s defeat (In development, I think? I remember seeing a test clip, possibly done by MR?)
• Maybe incorporating the Kylo on the Falcon deleted scene, if we can figure out a way to add the red cracks in the mask.

Things that have been finalized after a lot of discussion the last few dozen pages, and that we don’t need to bring up anymore:

• Palpatine’s plan and the Snoke connection (Palpatine has been “Every voice” in Kylo’s head. Palpatine hasn’t “always” wanted Rey alive since birth; but he decides to use her as a vessel after Ben reforms.)
• Poe used to be a spice runner
• Rey and Kylo have “become” a Dyad - pending updates (basically implying that their connection has grown in strength since the last movie, rather than them being some arbitrary “Dyad” entity from birth)
• And whatever else has already been incorporated into V2.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

Well I don’t know how to do that, Jar. Jar. Sheesh!

Just know for future reference that when I use the word “you” I’m sometimes not referring to the actual person I’m messaging. I just use that word sometimes as a replacement for “somebody”. Should probably get out of that habit to avoid misunderstandings like that lol.

Oh yeah, I know; I’m just messing with you. No worries!

bbghost said:

sherlockpotter said:

My headcanon of the scene was that Kylo was kind of sneaking onto the ship to get the dice that Luke left there, because he didn’t want anyone in the First Order to see his “weakness.” So he went in, hood up.

STORMTROOPER: “Huh. Wonder who that could be.”

Force users + hoods = complete anonymity. How many people recognized Palps as Sidious when he put his hood up? Obi-Wan on Tatooine? Kylo’s just keeping up the tradition lol.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

With or without the dice, like I said, “remastering” the deleted scene to be TROS-compatible is beyond my skill set, but I’d love to help how I can!

I’d imagine all you would really need to do is add some glowing red cracks to his helmet, as well as change the snowy exterior in the Falcon’s cockpit to something like a First Order hanger bay. Would be a really cool scene to include imo.

Well I don’t know how to do that, Jar. Jar. Sheesh!

Of course, there would be a couple of problems that likely couldn’t be solved:

1. Kylo’s TFA outfit is slightly different than his TROS one. Also, he isn’t seen anywhere else in TROS with his hood up.
2. Why are there snow troopers on the falcon? Of course, you could argue they are there because Kijimi is cold and they are troops from Kijimi. But I’d imagine the troops boarding the falcon would be returning from their mission on Pasaana, not Kijimi.

My headcanon of the scene was that Kylo was kind of sneaking onto the ship to get the dice that Luke left there, because he didn’t want anyone in the First Order to see his “weakness.” So he went in, hood up. There’s a shot in the deleted scene of him pulling his hood down. You’d replace the shot of the Stormtroopers with that establishing shot of the Falcon interior I created, cut to (Luke’s) back as he approaches the cockpit, cut to the deleted scene of Kylo pulling his hood down. Grabs the dice that Luke hung up. Badda bing, badda boom. You’ve got a character beat.

Hal 9000 said:

That’s a pretty nice idea! I’m sure you understand, but I don’t wish to include the dice in TROS:A. Luke retrieved them in TLJ and they paid off. At best it’d be one more thing to strain between 8 and 9.

But man, how cool would it be to contrive a scene of Kylo entering the Falcon using the deleted scene from TFA? Essentially serving the same purpose even, just two films later.

If there’s one deleted scene I’d love to have it’s Kylo facing Chewie during that section of the movie.

Fair point, although…do we ever see what happens to the real dice? Luke is holding them on the Falcon; I could be wrong, but I don’t think we see them again until Crait, when they’re just Force Projections. Maybe Luke kept them in his hut on Ahch-To; but maybe he left them on the ship. In which case, it might be a cool through-line - Kylo wants to take the dice at the end of TLJ, but he’s denied. He finally gets them back now, but at what cost? Has his journey been worth it? Where will he go now?

Cue Han on the Death Star.

With or without the dice, like I said, “remastering” the deleted scene to be TROS-compatible is beyond my skill set, but I’d love to help how I can!

As a slight tangent to the Dyad stuff…

I was feeling inspired by MR’s inclusion of Han’s dice in this scene (which I abolutely love, MR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueu_fV8lbac&t=6m47s But I wanted to take it one step further. The goal being both to connect backwards to TLJ through the dice, and also to paint Kylo in more layers before his ultimate redemption.

I’ve put together the following clip, and I’d love to know what you think. For now, I’ve included an introductory shot from earlier on, and then I do a quick dissolve to a later point in the film where the edit itself would take place; I just thought it would be valuable to have this context in mind when watching the edit.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QhWobZwNLY48z7lDrsKcqSNNTlUHlS2W/view?usp=sharing

The intention is, after the Death Star duel, we should show the dice again before Han shows up, exactly as MR does in his video.

Heck, Kylo talks to Palps in a hallway, then leaves through a door; and the next time we see him, he re-enters what looks like an identical hallway. What was he doing in that other room, I wonder…?

I was testing a version that uses shots from the “Kylo visits the Falcon” deleted scene from TFA, and the shots fit nicely in terms of framing and camera work; but I would need help with the color masking, and someone would also have to help add the red cracks to Kylo’s helmet.

Icecream2448 said:

He’s saying “come” in ‘become’ too softly? But you did say that was intentional to have it flow better. So, I dunno. I guess it is impossible to nail it right. I’d love to hear the full 5.1 audio, I really hope that does it for me!

The “come” part was actually something that I re-pitched. I can play around with making that part louder though! Thanks for the suggestion. And I used the 5.1 mix on the Steamable clip I posted.

Also, Creation, thank you for catching that pop! The word “We’ve” was actually layered from a couple of different sources (from “We’re), so it was hard to spot the blip between the different tracks.

I do think it should stay “Dyad in the Force” though. At least then we know that it’s some weird Force thingy, rather than a “…what did he say? A Diode? Huh?”

Honestly, after he says “A Dy-,” I didn’t do any other edits. If “in the Force” doesn’t flow right, we’ll have to blame that on the original sound editors.

A couple of things on The Line™:

It’s not really a matter of cramming more words into the same tight space - if you line them up, the new line does last longer, but we can fudge that since Kylo’s lips don’t move - the problem is just that we’re taking voice clips from like 3 or 4 different sources. Cutoffs between syllables don’t line up, inflections are different, timing is off…getting it to flow perfectly is next to impossible.

It will, however, sound better in the context of the film than as an isolated audio clip, for a number of reasons. First, the clip is only center channel audio; the full thing will have louder music and sound effects, which will help to mask the seams. The image will also help to distract viewers. (Which is why I shared it originally as a video clip.) Also, people aren’t going to be listening to the one line 30+ times on repeat, trying to pick out the holes. Quick half second, and it’s gone.

I think, conceptually, it’s worth keeping it in even if it’s not quite 100% perfect. What it adds to the continuity and the nuance of the film is worth a slight blip, in my opinion. I can definitely twiddle with it more though, and see if I can make it any tighter.

krausfadr said:

sherlockpotter said:

Hal 9000 said:

sherlockpotter will solve this or it’ll just remain poop.

Oh god, Hal himself just hinged the success of whole project on me. Fuuuuuu…

How does this sound for a v2 of the line? If it’s not perfect yet, let me know; but I’ve been listening to the same two seconds of audio for the past few hours, and I’m starting to lose objectivity. I’ve heard it so many times - and I’m hyper aware of where the different seams are - that I’m not sure if it sounds fluid or not. I need an fresh set of ears!

I’ve added an extra layer to smooth the transition a little more, re-pitched a couple of syllables, and I’ve been shuffling the different pieces around by a few thousandths of a second to make it flow better. Thoughts? Be brutal.

https://streamable.com/dwfbr9

Sherlock, could you please post your final clip for everyone in a WAV file? Excellent work.

Also when you say you “added an extra layer” what does that mean precisely?

Whoops, sorry. Sent the line to Hal in a PM at first. Here’s the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jOfypfXSDVkf7Z0p2xVB2ktg0RfwdxRW/view?usp=sharing

So, the extra layer was kind of weird. One of the problems I noticed was that there was a harsh cutoff between “become” and “A DYad”. I tried just lowering the volume of “A DY” a bit, but it still sounded uneasy to me. So I isolated the “mm” sound from “become” and layered it in a bit sooner. Then I blended it in with the “A” sound more. The end result (hopefully) was that it would go phonetically from “become. a Dyad.” to “become [ma] Dyad.”

Rather odd all around. I’m glad that it seems to have worked!

I like the Palps line, but I don’t quite like it while he’s frying the fleet. To me there’s a disconnect between currently electrocuting them (present tense) and saying this “will be your undoing” (future tense). I also get a weird implication where “coming together” is only bad because it means he can Chain Lightning them at once. If it’s possible, I think it works better where DZ suggested: “The life force of your bond, a dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. Your coming together will be your undoing. And now, the power of two restores the one true Emperor.”

Hal 9000 said:

Man, that’s perfect. Sincere bravo to you. As much as I sometimes think “hey I’ve gotten pretty good at sound mixing for edits” things like this remind me that I haven’t skimmed the surface.

That’s wonderful. Once you’re happy with it please just send it along.

JEDIT: And I just looked; you’re quite a new member, too! Where the hell’d you come from? Thanks for everything so far the last month or so.

Thanks so much, Hal! I’ll upload the wav and send you a PM. I actually only made this account to participate in the Ascendant discussion and track the progress, so I’m just glad I could help! And I’m honestly a novice - some of the edits and effects you guys have produced have absolutely astounded me. Trust me, you far outclass me in terms of editing ability. I could never put a full film together like this.

The whole community here should be enormously proud of what we’ve accomplished!

Hal 9000 said:

sherlockpotter will solve this or it’ll just remain poop.

Oh god, Hal himself just hinged the success of whole project on me. Fuuuuuu…

How does this sound for a v2 of the line? If it’s not perfect yet, let me know; but I’ve been listening to the same two seconds of audio for the past few hours, and I’m starting to lose objectivity. I’ve heard it so many times - and I’m hyper aware of where the different seams are - that I’m not sure if it sounds fluid or not. I need an fresh set of ears!

I’ve added an extra layer to smooth the transition a little more, re-pitched a couple of syllables, and I’ve been shuffling the different pieces around by a few thousandths of a second to make it flow better. Thoughts? Be brutal.

https://streamable.com/dwfbr9

Movies Remastered said:

I’ve actually removed all the Rey Palpatine references/storyline. I feel it leaves a bit more mystery than shoe horning the family link to Palps.

Oh that’s brilliant, MR! I was just wondering how the community’s progress on Rey Nobody was coming, since Hal was waiting until a blueprint for it could be conceived. Maybe you could share the techniques you used in the main Rey Nobody thread?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hal, to be honest, I’ve completely forgotten how we landed on this topic again LMAO.

Yeah, sorry, I think that was my fault. I was thinking about how much I liked Burbin’s suggestion of “become a Dyad” (even if I couldn’t remember to whom the idea should be credited), and I was just wondering if anything had happened with it yet.

I guess at this point…

Am I the only one who thinks it’s funny how we’re all frying our brains trying to make the trilogy make sense? Lol it’s great.

Reading over the last few posts, and mulling it over some more, I think what would have made the most sense is if the Rey/Kylo connection was very explicitly established in TFA. Something like, Rey senses Kylo when he arrives on Jakku, and she sets off intentionally looking for BB-8. Then Snoke plays on that innate connection in TLJ, and it all comes to a head in TROS, where their connection becomes so powerful that they can teleport lightsabers to each other like it’s nothing.

The problem is, J.J. hadn’t thought of the Dyad in TFA (or at least, he didn’t make it clear). So Rian comes in and artificially creates a connection between the two of them (a connection which they even question, like, “Wtf what’s happening?”) as a tool for character building, not a grandiose plot point. Then J.J. comes back and says, “Nah, that was a ‘Dyad’ all along! DYAD!!” I can’t see a way of making it work without A) Doing massive recuts to both TFA and TLJ, and B) Finding new scenes for TFA that never would have been filmed.

If I can get it to work, I think “becoming a Dyad” is the most elegant solution, something that’s vague enough to appeal to both sides of the aisle. I was playing with it more on my lunch break…I should be able to post a second attempt later this evening.

I’ll work on it more tonight. No guarantees, of course; but you never know. I’m determined, darn it! lol

Also, I think you said there were two instances of Kylo saying “become”? I was working with the one to Max von Sydow at the beginning of TFA. What’s the second?

That’s fair, Hal. I can work on it some more, see if it can be cleaned up at all. Although like I said, now I’m wondering if it wouldn’t just be easier and more logically consistent to cut the term entirely, like Eddie said.

RogueLeader said:

Somehow, Kylo realized they were a Dyad offscreen at some point independent of Snoke, and Palpatine didn’t realize their connection was a “Dyad”-level connection until they were together.

It’s just dumb because the Dyad is never really explained outside of what Palpatine says at the very end of the film. We don’t even learn how Kylo knows they’re a dyad. I would almost suggest cutting the term to just not add to the confusion, but I feel like that specialness is necessary to explain how Palpatine can just drink Rey and Kylo’s Dyad Milkshake and get that Sith sugar rush.

I’m kind of leaning towards Hal and RogueLeader here. If we just ignore the specific term “Dyad,” the whole thing becomes a lot less confusing. We know that they have a bond, and that it’s super-powerful anyway, given how they can transfer objects between themselves; so it’s not wholly unbelievable that Palpy could harness that power for himself. How much does it add to the film to say, “This is because ‘Dyad.’ Buy the TROS Visual Dictionary to find out more about ‘Dyad’!”

That being said, here’s my stab at “becoming” a Dyad. I kinda don’t want to use it now lol; but in the interest of fair play, I’ll offer it as a suggestion: https://streamable.com/uorkfi

(Also, which line are we talking about by poppasketti?)

And Jar Jar - we already knew that their bond survived after Snoke’s death. At the end of TLJ, there’s that moment when Kylo looks up, and “sees” Rey entering the Falcon. And then she shuts the door in his face both figuratively and literally.

EDIT: We see in TLJ (before ‘Dyad’ was a thing) that their connection was ongoing, and that it could transfer matter between locations (the raindrops). Expanding on the Rey/Kylo connection was one of the few bits of connective tissue that J.J. tried to incorporate from TLJ, and it honestly works really well…until he felt the need to re-contextualize the whole concept under an arbitrary title.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

It’s the same reason why I don’t like Rey Palpatine. It makes her special because of what she is, not who she is. At least if she “becomes” a Dyad along the way, that’s mitigated somewhat. If she’s born a Dyad AND a Palpatine, she becomes a double-chosen one.

I believe our disagreement here can be figured out by how we view Star Wars.

If you were to take a look at old myths and legends, you would find that most of the time the characters that were written about were special because of what they were, and not necessarily who they were. George Lucas wrote Star Wars while taking inspiration from many of these old myths and legends, and that is why I advocate for elements of the story which might reflect this.

From what I understand, you take Star Wars from a more modern-day storytelling approach. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with it. But I find this other element of Star Wars is what makes it unique compared to most other stories you find today.

Totally fair and valid interpretation. I guess in my mind, Luke was special, Anakin was literally The Chosen One. It’s been done before. So I really dug Rian Johnson’s modern take on self-made heroes, not mythic ones. Let’s shake up the formula a bit. Make it a little more (in my mind) thought-provoking.

But I think that’s why I’m holding out for Rey Nobody, and you’ll probably stick with V2, eh?

RogueLeader said:

It could be along the lines of the theory that Palpatine/Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin/the Chosen One. They thought they could use him, but in the end it was their undoing.

Maybe Snoke did bridge their minds, which inadvertently solidified their bond and made them become a Dyad in the Force. So Snoke/Palpatine’s own machinations led to their undoing once again. I mean, we basically get that theme already since Palpatine indirectly made Rey by having a child of his own.

Yeah, this is basically a kinder, less unhinged version of what I was getting at lol. Snoke bridge “becomes” a Dyad. So things build on the films that have come before.

I’m gonna get an ulcer from this film, guys.