sherlockpotter

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Hal 9000 said:

https://vimeo.com/523070856

I think this is one of those changes that works better as a concept rather than in actual practice. I just think the syntax of it is weird. If it was something like “A thousand generations live in you now… and we’ll always be with you… But this is your fight.”, it wouldn’t sound as wonky to me. But, I’m not sure if that’s possible.

😕

Agreed. Technically, it sounds like it’s incorporated well into the scene; but structurally, it doesn’t flow. It’s just a bunch of sentences without any flow between them.

jarbear said:

DZ-330 said:

Removing the “A thousand generations live in you now” line seems like the better option. Luke is implying that it is only her who can fight Palpatine and yet all the voices and ghosts appear. If it is Rey’s fight then why are they even showing up?!

Maybe removing that whole line and replacing with the below would be even better and lead to less contradictions?

“…someone who would finish her journey. We’ll always be with you. You’ll take both sabers to Exegol.”

To me it makes the Rey Skywalker scene at the end make more sense and is more personal. Luke is assuring Rey that him and Leia will always be with Rey, so when Rey sees them at the end of the movie it is just reassuring the familial bond they now have, and further reinforces why Rey is choosing her last name to be Skywalker. Plus, it removes the contradiction of it being Rey’s fight yet ALL the Jedi show up in spirit.

Whew… that was a lot lol

JEDIT: Plus it allows us to remove the last awful wig shot of Luke that jonh was having trouble with.

JEDIT 2!: It appears to show more of Luke providing wisdom to Rey rather than pushing off the fight on her.

Me gusta.

Sorry, Im personally not a fan of the whole "1000’s of generations of Jedi are in you … which is not true on any level. How many generations were in Luke? How about all the Jedi before? Wait, there wasn’t right? (yes)

Also, didn’t the whole “Jedi ghost stuff” appear due to the end of ROTS to be shown in the OT? So it wasn’t possible before? So … how can she have access to 1000 generations of something that isn’t there.

If I started recording something my room as of today … I don’t have access to any videos of my room prior to that since it didn’t start until recently.

SOrry … I just don’t get it and it completely dismisses/at odds with the movies before.

I don’t think it dismisses the previous movies. When somebody (i.e. Jedi) die, they move from the Living Force to the Cosmic Force. In Clone Wars, they explain that Qui-Gon is the first to manifest as a being in the Cosmic Force, but they rest of them are still a part of it.

My interpretation of the line is: “Rey, all of these Jedi are one with the Force, and we will all come to you when you need us.”

It ties back to “Be with me,” with the Ghosts showing up at the end, and with the “destiny of the Jedi” thingy that Luke was prattling on about two minutes earlier.

Look, I lothe TROS, but I truly don’t believe there’s anything wrong with this line, canonically or thematically.

For some reason it says the “With You” file is corrupted when I try to import it. Is that something wrong on my end?

Burbin said:

I think “a thousand generations live in you” works far better as setup for Rey hearing the voices of past Jedi, having them “stand behind” her (as Qui-Gon says), and Rey saying she’s “all the Jedi”.

Agreed. “We will always be with you” sounds so…personal. It sounds like it just refers to Luke and Leia. In this edit, Rey is going to see Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin without ever meeting them. Why should she care that they’re “with her”? Not to mention hearing Qui-Gon, Ahsoka, Kanan…

“A thousand generations live in you” better helps to foreshadow the scope of what’s to come, and gives more context for Rey personally.

But I still think it would be worth testing out “We will always be with you” as the final line of the sequence - it’s much more poignant than “You have everything you need.”

Maybe I’ll do my own mock-up tonight.

I can’t remember if I suggested this already, but something I’m planning on trying is cutting the Hux-Spy thing entirely. Tweak a few lines here and there, do some careful (but doable) edits in the Falcon on Fire scene, and just cut out the part where they’re re-captured on the destroyer. They rescue Chewie, bust out, and pop back up in the Falcon.

Sure it doesn’t give Hux much to do in the film (aka, the Rose Treatment), but I think it helps make Hux a more consistent character from the last two movies, and it helps correct a lot of pacing and tonal issues in the bargain. It’s a fairly radical change though, so I’ll understand if it won’t fit in Ascendant.

DZ, I think that would work well, but I’d still like to remove/replace the “Everything you need” line if possible. It just doesn’t carry the same weight to me.

Oh yeah, I don’t have a huge issue with “I think you’re okay” myself. My issue is more with the quipping about the spice running when they should be sad about Chewie’s apparent death, as well as retconning Poe’s backstory in a way that adds nothing of consequence to the story or character. It’s so blatantly superficial and-

(…Happy thoughts, Sherlock. Calm down.)

The lack of any extra frames or padding is a constant problem throughout the film’s pacing. The professional cut feels like a hatchet job. I think it’ll work better if it just cuts to “We don’t have much time,” even if it’s a little rushed. I’d rather a bit rushed (in yet another scene) than an abrupt halt and a massive tonal conflict. But I guess that’s more of a personal preference thing.

And I know Luke had an extra line in voiceover; but I was thinking more of a line said by the character in person, you know?

Jarbear, I always interpret that stuff as metaphorical. “I’m as powerful as all of the Sith!” “The Jedi are with you in spirit!” It’s garbage, but it’s not the worst thing in the film, imo.

A while back, someone (I think Jar Jar?) suggested adding Luke’s line from a trailer or something “We will always be with you,” into the scene somewhere. I’ve been thinking more about that line, and I think it would work really work well before Rey leaves the hut. Cut her exchange about “I can’t get to Exegol! I destroyed Ren’s ship!” “You have everything you need.” Just have her stand up, share a look with Luke, and head out. Somewhere in there, slip in the “Always be with you” line.

And because we all love reading essays on the slightest change, here’s another!

• It’s always struck me as a weird beat in the film. Rey finds her motivation to face Palpy, thanks to Luke. Then, she functionally loses her motivation (“Never mind, I actually can’t go because I definitely destroyed a ship.” (She doesn’t even know that the other Wayfinder actually exists, let alone that it’s ten feet away.) And then Luke immediately says “You didn’t destroy any McGuffins.” And Rey’s like “lol, okay. Bye.” That’s how you write tension, folks.
• It changes Mark Hamill’s final line in a Star Wars movie from something purely mechanical to something with both emotional significance and thematic relevance.
• It ties to the previous statement about “A thousand generations live in you now”; plus it connects to Luke’s next appearance, now even more so with the new Force Ghosts.
• It’s a fitting farewell from Luke/Star Wars to the audience as well.

Everything with Ahch-To is wrong in this movie. God.

EDIT: I also agree with Creation about the Hux spy slapstick and the “earn this saber” stuff. All of it can be cut down/out.

And Creation, we actually discussed a while back how all of that stuff with Zorii can be corrected - and the trilogy’s continuity can be improved - if we just cut it to “Babu only works with the crew. That’s not you. You, you’re the one they’re after.” I believe that was vetoed for some reason though.

Another take on “Luke was afraid.” I think the most elegant solution is just to cut around the line (if it matters to you, which it does me), but this is a slightly different, more technical approach. https://streamable.com/iejavt

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s the current list of changes for V2:

Completed or nearly:

• Make Kylo say “we’ve become a dyad in the Force” (sherlockpotter)
• Depict the Ach-To scene as taking place largely pre-sunrise (NeverArGreat - nearly finalized)
• Adjust Leia with Han’s medal insert shot in terms of placement and lighting (sherlockpotter)
• Remove Finn’s line “He wanted her alive.”
• Remove Palpatine’s lines “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here” and “…for my grandchild to come home.”
• Add Vader’s Castle establishing shot to opening as well as add the castle to background in later shot (21C Peasant, Movies Remastered)
• Due to popular demand, switch to Vader’s TIE for Kylo’s transport from the DSII (poppasketti)
• Remove 3PO’s line “from the Southern shore.”
• Gently restructure opening of final space battle (DominicCobb)
• Remove Rey’s mother calling her by name

Outstanding:

• Recolor the two lights on Rey’s yellow saber to blue and purple
• Depict the blue saber as fizzling out at end of DSII duel (to come, from Movies Remastered)
• Depict the two sabers as kaput after Exegol climax (to come, from Movies Remastered)
• Replace the Pasaana puppet show with visuals referencing Luke on Crait (being worked on by poppasketti, Movies Remastered, Rogue Leader, and/or snooker)
• Move Poe’s line “T minus 5” to before exiting hyperspace (possibly, if Movies Remastered can improve it, otherwise not)
• Depict Rey’s blue saber with a crackly visual effect (being worked on, will include work from kewlfish, Luka Frik, and Movies Remastered)
• Cut Luke’s hair (to come, from jonh or whomever wishes to correct issues with existing clip)

This all sounds amazing, Hal. Thanks for keeping track of everything!

And a massive thank you to everyone working on these shots! It’s seriously just incredible work.

To quote Grandpa Sheev: “Look what you have made.”

Agreed. Personally, I don’t think Luke looks bad in the final scene. Also, did they change the ghost effect partway through post production? Luke And Leia don’t look as obnoxiously blue as Luke does on Ahch-To. What’s up with that?

Okay, I’ve done it. I’ve finally cracked Ahch-To. I think we can all agree that this is the version we should use: https://streamable.com/1enw0o

DominicCobb said:

I believe it’s been pointed out that the ships look different anyway

Do they? God, what’s wrong with this movie?

ildiem, it was an idea that was being discussed on the Ascendant thread. People were theorizing that, now that Luke’s outlook on life and on the Jedi has changed, any “third lesson” he would give to Rey would change as well. I think it’s a cool idea in theory, but I wasn’t sure how it would work out in practice.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback!

Nev, that’s a fantastic way of looking at it. I love Luke’s arc in VIII, but it definitely would have been cool if TLJ leaned more in that direction, rather than just touching on it slightly.

*MISSING: ONE SITH DAGGER. IF FOUND, PLEASE RETURN TO OCHI ON EXEGOL*

No, but recoloring the engine glow really would be a solid way of differentiating the ships. Great idea!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

I think the scene would have a lot more power and carry a lot more weight if we allow it to stand on its own, rather than distracting the audience with, “Hey! Yoda’s Theme!”

I get where you’re coming from to a certain extent, but 2 changes in this project include music from the prequels (3PO and R2 theme, ROTS Palpatine as he drains dyad). It would be a shame IMO to not include such an iconic piece from the originals. Even if you remove the music, the scene is still an overt reference to Yoda. You can’t undo that. For me, I really enjoy the music there. It shows how far Luke Skywalker has come; he has taken the place of Yoda.

Yeah, I get the justification for the scene, but I think there are more reasons against using it than for it. Besides, this shouldn’t be a question of “We’ve included ‘music from the prequels’”; it doesn’t matter that it was “an iconic piece from the originals.” There’s no checklist for “pieces that we can bring back.” I’m looking at it from what suits this scene, this film, this trilogy, the best. Rey has no connection to Yoda, and this moment is about her. Luke did have a connection to Yoda, which is why Yoda (and his theme) were brought back for his arc in TLJ. But his arc is done. The scene is supposed to be about Rey. Not Luke, and certainly not Yoda.

Look, this isn’t just my opinion. This is John Williams’s. John Williams himself didn’t intend to put Yoda’s Theme into the film; the stupid music editor was the one who wanted it.

So unless y’all think that you know how to score a Star Wars movie better than John Williams…

EDIT: To be clear, I’m just arguing my viewpoint. I can only speak for myself (and John Williams, apparently); I begrudge no one who still wants to leave it in the film.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

sherlockpotter said:

When Luke lifts the X-Wing, what if we carry through the Rise of Skywalker Theme (which is already playing when Rey pulls the Wayfinder from Kylo’s ship) instead of transitioning to Yoda’s Theme? I get what they’re going for (namely: extremely obvious, hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-mace parallels), but…ehhh. Besides, even ignoring the Yoda disconnect, the Rise of Skywalker Theme is the key theme for this entire movie; and with the new coloring, this is the key scene for the film as well. There’s a lot of significance to pairing the two, instead of…Yoda’s Theme. I think the scene would have a lot more power and carry a lot more weight if we allow it to stand on its own, rather than distracting the audience with, “Hey! Yoda’s Theme!”

You know, I never had a problem with the Yoda music in this scene. But re-watching the current iteration of the “day to night” Ahch-To scene, I actually agree with you on just finishing out the TROS theme instead.

JEDIT: Just saw that Hal vetoed this. Lmao. Oh well.

Yeah, it definitely feels very abrupt and awkward when you listen for it. The music just…changes. No transition, no nothing.

It’s taking a scene that should be about Rey moving forward, and making it all about Rey(‘s Master(‘s Master’s)) past. Like…oof. Ah well. It’s not the first time I’ve been overruled on this film.

And MR, I definitely want to check out how you get Lando and Leia together. That sounds amazing!

Hal 9000 said:

I get why they used Luke and Leia’s theme for Lando and Jannah. It’s John Williams’ way to let us know they might (or may as well) have a family connection. To me it’s the only thing in the film that steers me away from “lol wtf smoothie Lando is hitting on this 19 year old.”

Oh god, you’re right. I always thought Billy Dee misread the line, and made it way too seductive. John Williams is the only thing in the film trying to push the “family” angle for them. God bless John Williams, trying his best to salvage the scene.

If I make my own version, I’ll cut the entire exchange; but I don’t think that would fly in this edit. 😉

NeverarGreat said:

That’s what I think would actually be powerful about burying the sabers, though. They are blue and purple, and in the next shot the saber activates with a flash of two colors - it seems odd that it would be anything but those colors if that message is to ‘read’, at least to me.

Also: YES I KNOW LUKE’S SABER IS GREEN AND I AGREE IT STANDS FOR HIS CHARACTER BUT IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENSE FOR THIS STUPID SCENE IN THIS STUPID MOVIE BECAUSE SHE ONLY HAS HIS BLUE ONE AND IT BREAKS EVERYTHING BUT WHATEVER I DON’T ACTUALLY CARE.

Ahem. Please continue 😃

I agree with Nev. The blue saber represents Luke in this trilogy more than the green, so it should be blue and purple symbolism. That’s why he projected the blue saber on Crait.

As for the sparks, I was just thinking of ways to cover up the lighting issue. I think the best solution visually would be to flicker the lightsaber when Rey looks at it (doing a color mask to hide the lighting discrepancy), then have it simply cut out before Kylo’s final strike.

Then have it spark out on Exegol, to show that it’s truly destroyed.

I want to lob two musical changes out to the group for consideration: when Luke lifts the X-Wing, what if we carry through the Rise of Skywalker Theme (which is already playing when Rey pulls the Wayfinder from Kylo’s ship) instead of transitioning to Yoda’s Theme? I get what they’re going for (namely: extremely obvious, hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-mace parallels), but…ehhh. Besides, even ignoring the Yoda disconnect, the Rise of Skywalker Theme is the key theme for this entire movie; and with the new coloring, this is the key scene for the film as well. There’s a lot of significance to pairing the two, instead of…Yoda’s Theme. I think the scene would have a lot more power and carry a lot more weight if we allow it to stand on its own, rather than distracting the audience with, “Hey! Yoda’s Theme!”

The other moment is in the Reunion scene at the end. Why is Luke & Leia’s Theme playing? Where are Luke and Leia? Get that s*** outta there. I was thinking it might be nice to play some of Rose’s Theme, as she sort of represents “The Heart of the Resistance.” Or the Rise of Skywalker Theme again.

For Ochi’s ship, I think it will work well enough if we just remove her saying “I’ve seen that ship before…” If anyone notices that the ship looks like the one from TFA, they can just assume that it’s the same model, but a different ship. Kind of like a car. Anything else would require swapping out CGI models either here or (more easily) in TFA.

YES! I’m super excited that the “lightsaber cutting out” effects are going to be included - I’ve been in love with the concept since I first saw MR’s tests.

Jar Jar is right, the way Daisy Ridley seems to be reacting, it’s almost like the shot was made for the saber to die.

To get around the lighting issue when Rey is standing, maybe it shoots a shower of sparks out as it flickers? The sparks would serve as the source of the light that’s in the scene, and Rey would then shake her hand as if the sparks have burned her. That also ties in with the idea that the lightsaber is unstable - it’s not just about to die, it’s about to explode. Violently. (Like Rey.)

Definitely agree that sound will be massively important for the effect to land.

Regarding Leia, I was toying with the idea of sliding the shots of her around a bit, so that her hand collapses as Rey is healing Ben. Then it would be like Leia is sending her lifeforce to Ben (through Rey) in order to save him; rather than Leia just “losing the will to live.” So that could also make Rey’s inner conflict more interesting - she was able to save Ben, but she basically had to condemn Leia to do so.

EDIT: hinventon, what are your thoughts on removing Luke’s line about being afraid?

Largely copying a post I made on the Ascendant thread:

I’ve mocked up four different versions of Luke’s exchange with Rey. All of them remove Luke’s one line of “It was fear that kept me here” for two reasons:

1. It was a major goal of Rian Johnson’s when writing Ep. VIII to make sure that Luke wasn’t acting out of fear. “I know the Luke that I grew up with is not a coward; he’s not sitting out there hiding. So I had to come up with a reason he was there that was one, active; and two, positive.”

“It was fear that kept me here.” It feels wrong to me to undo all of Rian’s work with a throwaway line.

2. Honestly, seeing it in practice, I like it even more this way - not only does it avoid ignoring Luke’s feelings of guilt in the previous movie; but it allows Luke’s declaration of “I was wrong” to hang in the air. The added space gives Rey (our protagonist) a moment of genuine self-reflection, one that is no longer interrupted by Luke’s prattling.

Version 1 - The Basic Trim: https://streamable.com/3qr20n
This version cuts out Luke’s one line, and then tightens the space around it a little to avoid excessive dead space. Space could obviously be tightened more if need be.

Version 2 - The Early Cutoff: https://streamable.com/wqo8f2
Luke interrupts Rey’s explanation, deciding not to entertain her flawed justifications. This version also plays with a slightly redone version of Luke’s “I was wrong” line, where I repitched it a little and made the word “wrong” a bit louder, to make Luke sound more forceful. (It’s less, "Oh yeah, I was wrong about that. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ " and more “You moron, don’t you remember that I was wrong? You’re the one who told me that in the first place!”)

Version 3 - The Early Lesson Three: https://streamable.com/muk1wo
Luke frames their entire conversion around his long-promised Third Lesson to Rey, the lesson he never got to give her in Episode VIII - finding her courage, and embracing her title as a Jedi. For this version, I decided to reverse the shot of Rey between “I was wrong” and “What are you most afraid of” - Now she looks up at Luke when he mentions “Lesson Three.”

Version 4 - The Later Lesson Three: https://streamable.com/4742xw
Luke talks about fear and courage, and then imparts one final wisdom to her as his Third Lesson.

Both Versions 3 and 4 feature a slightly retouched version of Jar Jar Brick’s “Lesson Three” cleanup, which was based on JXEditor’s design. I’ve run the “three” through a compressor to balance out the audio levels a little bit more, and I condensed/overlapped the gap between the words slightly to try and make it flow better. I also performed some noise reduction on the word “Lesson,” because there was some slight music in the background that I was noticing with the absence of music in the Early Lesson version. We can play with that though.

Different pieces of each could also be combined. I’m mainly just curious as to people’s thoughts.

Oooh, yeah, RogueLeader’s plan seems really solid conceptually. Plus, given her complete lack of biological family, it would make sense for her to feel so protective of her current “family.” It feels like a natural progression from TLJ.

So what scenes would actually need to be changed to remove the Palpatine lineage?

• Rey’s vision during Training - swap out shots of her parents/Baby Rey for shots of her friends dying.
• Kylo’s Quarters Fight - remove mention of “Palpatine wanted your parents dead.”
• Hangar scene - Kylo tells Rey that she will succumb to the Dark Side and take the Sith Throne. (Maybe comp in a line like, “The Resistance is dead!”)
• Post-Hangar scene - Cut Rey telling Finn, “Palpatine killed my parents. I’m gonna kill him.”
• Ahch-To - Cut Luke telling Rey “Because you’re a Palpatine.” Just make it about confronting her fears and facing Palpatine.
• Trim Emperor’s dialogue about “my granddaughter.” When he says “Weak, like your parents,” just have Rey stare at him, as the threat lingers in the air.

Is that it?

EDIT: dgraham414, maybe I’m just not remembering the nuances of the film super duper well, but I feel like it should be possible to shift it slightly from “Rey thinks she’ll fall to the Dark Side because Palps is her grandpapa” to “Rey thinks she’ll fall to the Dark Side because otherwise Palps will kill everyone she loves.” It’s just trimming some of the connective tissue that could pose a challenge.

That looks amazing, Nev! Seriously fantastic work.

Seeing the full scene like that, I do really wish we could have him say, “Leia told me that her Jedi path would end with the birth of her son” - there’s so much relevance to that, and it gives a better explanation why she would just stop her training - but if we can’ t find the audio to support it, it’s a moot point.