sherlockpotter

Just to be clear, I have no aversion to including the “Finn is Force sensitive” idea on its own; I just don’t see it as a “necessary” inclusion. It’s a fine idea, but a naff execution of it. So, like, the potential benefits of streamlining the Nav Tower gobbledygook are worth losing “I’m slightly Force sensitive” to me. But hey, if you want to keep Finn with his thing, that’s fine too. God knows he didn’t get anything else worthwhile in this film.

“REYYYYYYYYYY”

Thoughts though on the “Trapped for just a few minutes” line, and the “Leia Death March” clip?

DominicCobb said:

If we’re throwing in things to consider that the community might be able to help with (ideas that have been thrown around before here and elsewhere)…

• Adding lava to some of the Mustafar shots.
• Change Rey’s line to “I will earn your FAMILY’S saber,” which just makes more sense on a few levels.
• Add a line for Leia after saying “no” to Rey going on the mission. Something like “You’re not ready.” Scene feels a little awkward.
• Add Finn saying to Jannah “We all have to fight” so it seems like he had some influence on her decision to join the resistance (paying forward his TLJ arc).
• Change Luke’s line to “Leia sensed the BIRTH of her son,” which seems more fitting.
• Give Rey a different outfit in the final scene, either all black or grey, or partially black or grey.
• Recolor the saber burial cloth to be black and add a hole so it appears to be Ben’s sweater, so she’s burying things that belong to all three ghosts.

I’d definitely be willing to work on “Family saber” and “birth of her son,” but I couldn’t find any clips that matched. If someone can track down those audio clips, or can think of possible alternatives, we’d be in business.

Love the idea of recoloring Rey’s clothes.

I think Leia says “Be patient” earlier in the film, so that could work in theory. (“I have to go to Exegol!” “No, be patient…” “Nah, I’m going. Try and stop me!”) The quote may have to be massaged a bit to fit in seamlessly though.

Hal 9000 said:

Reintroducing Palpatine in song would certainly be an improvement from “The dead speak!”

The navigation tower makes a certain amount of sense. I think if the changes you suggest were made, it may as well become the self-destruct button. The way it is here, they’re buying a window of time in which to open vulnerability to the fleet. It’s unclear whether other ships than the lead could take over that role. By simplifying this aspect of the plot even more I think it would make it feel dumber rather than less dumb.
It’s not my intention to remove Finn’s Force sensitivity altogether, just the awkward “OMG RAY I NEVER TOLD Y—“. He still has his conversation with Jannah, senses the nav tower change, and senses Rey’s death. There are more hints besides, and hopefully we get stories to come that capitalize on them.

I wouldn’t mind changing the line to “I will earn your family(‘s) saber,” and I think “the birth of her son at the end of her Jedi path” might work. Dunno if either are feasible with what we have at our disposal.

Darkening the color of the saber burial cloth is a good idea, I’m glad you brought that up again. I don’t know about Rey’s clothes though; it’d make more sense to me to have her wear black until that scene instead.

To be fair, Star Wars is no stranger to self-destruct buttons. “Fire a torpedo at this exhaust port and the Death Star will explode!” “Destroy the core and the Death Star II will explode!” “Fire on the Oscillator and the Death Star III will explode!” It’s just a staple of the universe. And the tower is already inherantly a self-destruct button anyhow. How is it less dumb that there’s a fully working tower on the ground, and no one thinks to reactivate it? I’m just trying to streamline the concept and chip away at the obfuscations.

Heck, even the Prequels, in all of their convoluted glory, kept their space battles pretty straight forward. “Blow up the donut ship’s core and every droid on the planet will shut down!”

And as for Finn, just because we don’t directly imply that he’s Force sensitive at this exact moment, doesn’t refute any Force sensitivity that might happen down the line. And since John Boyega said he’s done with Star Wars at this point, that’s a big “might.” I’m not saying let’s have Rose slam Finn against the wall and scream “You’ll never be a Jedi!” while slapping him across the face; you can still read Finn and Fancy Free down the line, where Finn Force Pulls a lightsaber to him, and it won’t ret-con anything already set up. (Kathleen Kennedy’s very big on not ret-conning anything.) Besides, you removed Yoda using a lightsaber in your Prequel edits - doesn’t that implicitly contradict existing Expanded Material things (like Clone Wars), where he uses a lightsaber a lot? Not just some hypothetical future project that may-or-may-not actually happen. Why draw a line here?

I’m just saying, doesn’t it make more sense to try and make the most cohesive story possible here, rather than trying to set up hypothetical future projects for Disney down the line? Whether it’s introduced here or later on, Finn’s Force sensitivity comes out of nowhere with absolutely no setup; why force that crutch onto this story, rather than one in which it’s actually relevant?

Well, that’s my opinion, and Hal’s opinion. What does everyone else think?

Ed Slushie said:

Sherlock, I think the way the nav-tower works is that they didn’t blow it up, they blew up the power source for it, which delayed the ships taking off. Though it’s not at all clear in the movie, I’m pretty sure that was their plan all along - to just stall the fleet long enough for Lando & Co to arrive (because if deactivating the tower is enough to stop the fleet then why do they need Lando’s help at all?). It isn’t until Finn & Jannah destroy the command deck that the fleet gets stuck there for good.

So…the First/Final Order just needs one of its millions of personnel to find a battery, and they’ll be able to recharge the tower and be on their way? Does the tower on the ground plug into the same power source as the tower on the space ship? And why would destroying one ship (the command ship) cause the rest of the fleet to be stuck (unless it’s in charge of their navigation signal)? The command ship wasn’t the Resistance’s target - nor was it of any importance - until it assumed navigational control. And they didn’t even know for sure that anyone would show up, so their plan wouldn’t have deliberately hinged on whether or not they got reinforcements.

This is all kind of expanding on the problem I pointed out - this Nav Tower idea is so messy that it’s hard to follow both the goals and the stakes of the battle. If we streamline it to “Take out the navigation tower on that command ship and the fleet will be stuck,” we avoid all of this confusion.

Hey all, I’ve thought of more potential changes! Woo hoo! (Hal’s gonna have me banned, I’m sure of it.) I’ve provided mock ups.

• Removed Poe saying that destroying the Nav Tower will trap the First/Final Order on Exegol “for just minutes.” It directly contradicts how the battle is only won because the command ship is destroyed. (“The fleet is stuck here! They’re toast! We don’t have to worry about them ever again!”) J.J. and Chris hinged the outcome of the entire war on this plot point, and they messed it up. I mean, Jesus Christ…
• Recut Leia’s Death March - Why does she hobble away leaning on Billie Lourd for support? Why is she so weak and feeble? She hasn’t even done anything yet! Can’t Leia’s final moments be a show of strength?
  • Plus, it removes Maz looking directly at the camera and telling us, “Leia’s about to kill herself. Just FYI!” If we can remove more unnecessarily overt dialogue, I’m all for that.
  • This is also our last time seeing Leia’s actual face; and now the whole scene is focused around her… Instead of Maz? A character that has never even been in the same shot as Carrie Fisher? That’s…meaningful, I guess?
• Reworked the Resistance arriving on Exegol so that Pryde doesn’t switch over the Nav Tower controls.
  • This section admittedly involves a lot of recutting, but that fact does give us more room to play around with, if you want to reorder some of the scenes from how I’ve laid them out here.

There are a number of reasons for doing this change:

1. If the movie is going to establish that the Nav Tower control can be switched to different towers, why not just switch it to a different one after the command ship goes kablooey? If we can imply that there’s only one usable Nav Tower, we can eliminate one of the 63,398 plot contrivances surrounding the Exegol Battle.
2. With Pryde no longer busy playing hot potato with his navigation signal, it feels instead like he’s ready to deploy the fleet at any moment, raising the tension and the stakes of the battle.
3. Switching the Towers willy-nilly is the “culmination” of the “Force-sensitive Finn” “story “arc”” which has been cut from Ascendant up to this point. It feels strange to leave in the last piece of that underdeveloped trash heap without the rest of it. (It felt strange with the rest of it included too. It’s just strange.)
4. Minor gripe - in the wide shot (before the binocular zoom), the Nav Tower is visibly firing ion shots at the Resistance fighters. This is either another visual continuity error, or another plot contrivance - why doesn’t the tower have any defenses when the Resistance is right on top of it? Seriously, what the heck is this?

This movie is going to kill me. 😄

Nah, I don’t think a 3+ hour cut of TROS would be any good. It might be better - maybe they’d let some scenes breathe more, open up the pacing, maybe even add some good scenes in; but in my opinion the film is just fundamentally broken. Its biggest failures aren’t “This needed to be explained more,” it’s that things are over explained, and the presented ideas are just arguably dumb. Bringing back Palpy? Dumb. The fetch quest that’s rendered pointless when Kyle* destroys the MacGuffin? Dumb. Ret-conning Rey’s parents? Dumb. You’d have to write a whole new script.

That said, that Ascendent is even watchable, let alone good, is nothing short of miraculous. (I’m still holding out for Rey Nobody though!)

As for Kylo’s TIE, it’s a massive continuity error, sure; but it might be tricky to change ship enough to be obviously different, while still staying in line with the First Order aesthetic. Short of designing a whole new 3D model…

If anyone wants to try, I’d definitely be interested in seeing what they come up with!

*That was autocorrect, but I’m leaving it.

Oh my god, the color grading looks amazing! Nev, seriously, mad props to you. I think the pinky/purply sunrise looks beautiful (granted, I’m biased). Even if it’s not the most commonplace of sunrise colors, it’s not unnatural; and it also just feels that much more magical and special (which is exactly what this scene needs).

And Nev, the way you got the burning fire on the new establishing shot? Just brilliant.

Agreed with MR, if the new line could be balanced a little more, that would be perfect.

Hal, regarding the Sith Whispers and The Dagger™ and the Wayfinders, that’s a fair point if we want to distinguish the two MacGuffins. In my mind, the whispers are just manifestations of the Dark Side, trying to lure Kylo/Rey to Exegol. The tools through which they manifest don’t matter so much as do the essences themselves. Different strokes; but your implementation is totally valid.

Also, ThisIsCreation said something that caught my eye:

ThisIsCreation said:

I hate when rey say’s ‘i destroyed ren’s ship’ because it’ adr’ed terribly (the worst in the whole movie) & it treats us like dumbies, i like Luke’s reply and think if the line about the ship was removed it would feel much better, but that’s a scripting issue rather than a visual issue

I actually think the problem with the line goes deeper than what Creation said though. (Oh boy, here goes Sherlock, over-analyzing the script again.) At this point, Rey should be convinced enough to go to Exegol. One of the reasons we wanted to cut “Take both sabers” was because we wanted to give Rey more agency. But right after, it sounds (to me, at least) like she’s just rattling off more excuses to get out of going. “Oh no, I can’t go to Exegol! I don’t have a Wayfinder! And…I destroyed the ship! And, uh…”

With different music, it would actually be comedic in how it’s scripted and edited. She takes a moment to steel herself. She stands up, she faces Luke. She takes a breath…and immediately shakes her head and says she’s out of options. The whole character beat is just…off to me. This may just be my interpretation of the line, but if she just complains about the Wayfinder, that sounds like she’s asking Luke for advice. If she lists more reasons beyond that, she’s making excuses. I feel like she’s ignoring the past five minutes of motivational speeches Luke has been spewing. (On that token, I’d like to cut “I can’t get to Exegol” too and just focus on the Wayfinder conundrum, but I think that one would mess up the flow too much. “Ship” is just ADR anyway.)

So…do we want to cut “I destroyed Ren’s ship”?

EDIT (in response to Hal below): Mo-mo-mo-Mockup!

I dunno, I don’t think it sounds that off, but I’ll leave it up to the rest of you to decide.

I definitely don’t think Kylo’s twitch works. But I do like the idea of starting the Sith Whispers earlier. If they just start when he opens the doohickey, it feels like “Oh, I guess the pyramid thing is making noise now.” If it starts earlier, it’s like the Dark Side is calling out to Kylo (similarly to how the whispers will “call out” to Rey on Endor). Creates a nice little connection.

sade1212 said:

I think the pages of discussion over single lines are a consequence of two things. Firstly, there’s very little material to work with for TROS: no deleted scenes and a really tightly edited movie to begin with. Secondly, it’s one of the more underwhelming Star Wars movies, and the new ending of the Saga too, so there’s a strong drive to try to improve it. It winds up with everyone getting a little desperate.

To add to this, in my opinion, TROS suffers not just from a bad story, but also a pretty awful script. I’d say the majority of the lines are either awkward, or stupid, or they ret-con stuff that’s already established. So a lot of this discussion has been trying to find the worst offenders (and everyone has their own opinions of what the worst offenders are), and then trying to determine if they can be changed or removed without breaking the entire film.

And for a film that’s already being held together with twigs and paper clips, that’s a very fine line.

What’s already been accomplished is nothing short of staggering.

Icecream2448 said:

Them falling into each other isn’t the problem. Randomly stopping like that for a guy, out of nowhere, who only speaks after they’ve stopped makes no sense lol.

And it’s not that convenient how Kylo finds them. It’s a use of their dyad being able to send things back and forth ability. Showing how much can be literally sent over now (more than just droplets of water) and thus a set up for the end with the lightsaber. And having a point to him taking the necklace too, not just him randomly grabbing her… for intimidation or something? I remember being weirded out by that for the first watch, but having a wave of realization that he was using the necklace for this purpose.

Point is, I think all of this is needed in the way this movie works, we can’t get rid of it. How it’s currently edited in the edit works well enough by letting this breathe better.

He’s a mysterious stranger, in unique armor, staring specifically at them, holding a crossbow, in the middle of a party. Wouldn’t you be a little weirded out?

If the necklace stuff works for you, then that’s great. I would have preferred it to be a character moment/intimidation tactic, but that’s just me. I don’t speak for everyone.

Like I said, my original point was just asking whether or not anyone here thinks it will be odd to have the locals mocking the First Order directly in front of the First Order troopers. That’s the question I’m offering for debate. Yes or no.

Icecream2448 said:

The way they comically Scooby-Doo gang slide into each other is way too sudden makes no sense now. And they’re following a guy who looks like an evil bounty hunter or spy? That makes them look like gullible fools.
I just see it as The First Order just patrols planets at random. Might be on a red flag list for whatever reason. It doesn’t really matter. We are losing the plot here.

I mean, I didn’t change the timing of them sliding into each other. That’s exactly how it is in the Theatrical.

My original point was just that it feels weird that the Pasaanians would put on a puppet show mocking the First Order, directly in front of the FO troops. If there are no patrols, we avoid that. But I was curious if people even felt that that would be odd in the first place. If it’s just me, then it’s a non-issue; but I thought we might want to consider that angle.

Also, personally, I just find it super duper convenient that Kylo was only able to find Rey because an alien pig child gave her a necklace 95 seconds earlier. I’d rather not know how he found her, personally, if that’s the alternative. Takes some of the mystery out of it; but that’s just my preference, and largely a separate issue if we cut that one guy out. We can still cut the one guy and leave the tracking in. That’s cool too.

Hal 9000 said:

And about the “random First Order patrols,” I think if you removed that line from the sequence the way we have it laid out, it would make the trooper come out of nowhere even more so than in the original. And that trooper has to be there because it’s how we meet Lando.

If you removed the line and reverted the sequence to the theatrical, suddenly the First Order are able to arrive comically quickly after analyzing the necklace.

I think the current implementation is the best approach, all things considered.

I think we can work around that, honestly. I did this really quickly, so as usual with my mock ups, the audio would need a bit more work to smooth out, but check this out:

https://streamable.com/xup8e2

I mirrored the shot of Lando to match the eye lines, and cut the Stormtrooper. You’d just need to carry over the “suspense” music cue and you’d be set.

So picture it: Kylo tells Rey that they’re about to catch them, grabbing the necklace as a symbolic gesture, rather than a plot contrivance. The Trio start running for it, when they’re intercepted by this mysterious stranger. Is it a First Order operative? An ally? Who knows? He hasn’t done anything to help or hurt them so far, so we have SUSPENSE!

Ideally, I’d love to add some voice over about “The First Order is looking for you,” or maybe a line from the Trio about “Who are you?” And cut the “Leia sent me a message” to keep his intentions uncertain until he takes off the mask.

EDIT: Maybe trim up Lando’s turn in the first shot too, so that he doesn’t change direction with the mirror.

EDIT 2: Same idea, but mirrored the shot of the heroes running instead of Lando. I don’t think anyone would notice the weapons changing sides, given how frenetic the shot is anyway; plus, this would have the added benefit of normalizing the screen direction. Now the sequence goes:

Rey runs to right -> Heroes run to right -> See Lando to the right -> Follow him to the right

Rather than the original sequence of:

Rey runs right -> Everyone turns around and heads back to the left -> Sees a Stormtrooper that way -> Lando shoots from behind them and back the way they just came at the right?? -> Lando is now magically behind them to the right??? -> Follow Lando ahead and to the right, I think? Or they just go back the direction they just came from?

What…? Where is any of this occurring in space? Where are they going? Why can’t any of this action be tracked visually?

https://streamable.com/0lx0hr

I think Merry’s line is fine. As was stated above, he’s supposed to be a Sith/Palpatine expert or whatever. Just because he knows about Grandpa Sheev doesn’t mean everybody knows. Granted, the line is stupid as hell from a generic writing perspective; but that’s not a good enough reason to have an abrupt cut in the middle of the scene. I say leave it alone.

As for the lightsaber, I think it makes more sense narratively to just cut Rey forfeiting the saber to Leia; but Hal said he’s not worried about it, so we shouldn’t worry about it.

I will say one more thing about Pasaana though: even if we keep the “necklace tracking” thingy, perhaps we should still cut Poe’s line about “There are always First Order troops around these parts.” Mainly because, if the First Order has been hanging around for a while here, and their presence is known, Why are the locals putting on a puppet show about Luke defeating and humiliating them?

I definitely think the new puppet show should be included - it has substantial benefit for the finale of the movie - but do we think it’ll be weird that this seemingly primitive culture is doing this right in front of the First Order, and kids are laughing at the First Order, and the First Order isn’t doing anything to shut them down?

If we cut Poe’s line, there’ll be no indication that there are Stormtroopers around - hence, why they feel safe enough to put on the puppet show. Of course, that would mean the audience would either have to infer that there was some random, surprise patrol on the planet before the First Order knew that Rey & Co. were there; or we’d have to cut the “tracking” scene too, and imply that the First Order always knew that they were there. They’re not there doing a random patrol (which the Pig People would have anticipated, in that context); they’re only there to hunt the Heroes.

I genuinely want to hear people’s thoughts.

TL;DR: Three options:

1. The Pasaanians are making fun of the First Order directly in front of the First Order, and the First Order don’t care, son.
2. No one knew that there would be a First Order patrol at the party. The First Order didn’t know that Rey & Co. were going to be there. The First Order just manages to happen upon them in this whole gigantic desert planet out of luck.
3. The First Order doesn’t have to “track” them to Pasaana at all. They already know that they’re there, and they try to catch them in a trap (which is thwarted by Lando).

Thinking out loud here about other potential “minor” tweaks. What if we remove the scene where Random First Order Officer says “We’ve analyzed the necklace! It’s made by the Pig People of Pasaana!”

It would allow the Lando scene to continue seamlessly, which would probably help with the pacing if we’re not jumping across the galaxy every minute or so. More importantly, I think it would significantly raise the tension. It would seem, as Rey implies (“We have to go, now! It’s Ren!”), that Kylo is hot on their tails. He’s talking to her because he’s already so close to their location. When he takes the necklace, the implication would be, “You can’t hide from me…I’m going to find you. [Look how close I already am, bwa ha ha!]”

And then, when Rey is freaking out, we don’t get any relief that “Oh, the First Order is just now discovering that they’re on Pasaana? Okay, I guess they’ve got some time.”

Functionally, they run into a stormtrooper immediately afterwards, so their location would be reported a few seconds later anyway.

Oh! Oh! We could even cut Poe’s ADR line that “The First Order always patrols parties like these - you know, the parties that occur every 42 years on underdeveloped desert planets? They love those.” (We can keep his line about “Keep your head down, Chewie.”) Because then, there’s absolutely no indication that the First Order will find them there. Then, all of a sudden, Kylo reveals himself, stormtroopers pop up - It’s a trap! Kylo was toying with her! The First Order already knows their location!! Hurry! Get the intel from Lando and get out of there!

Sure, it’s a little convenient that Kylo would already know where they are. But is it any more convenient than “instantaneous necklace-tracking and teleporting across the galaxy to their location”? Maybe they tracked Lando, or Kylo sensed Rey? Or he sensed The Dagger™? He magically knows that Rey is on Endor later on anyway, so does it truly matter this time?

I guess it depends on how much Rey’s parents are going to factor into the Rey Nobody version. Are they going to be in the edit at all? Will they still be the drunks that they were in TLJ? Will they have been abducted by Ochi still?

If they’re still going to be anonymous (“nobody”) drunks that abandoned Rey on Jakku, and we see that shot again in TROS, I think it would make sense to reuse the footage from TFA.

If Ochi’s ship is now going to be different from the one her parents left on, then it might be nice to recolor the engines to differentiate the two.

If we just want to avoid dwelling on Rey’s parents any more in this film, then I guess it makes the most sense to just cut the shot out of Rey’s vision entirely.

I don’t know if I’m making sense at this point lol. I think I’m overthinking the Ochi Ship thing.

EDIT: I think what would make the most sense theoretically (depending on whether it could be effectively implemented) would be to follow RogueLeader’s outline. Remove any mention of Rey’s parents, change Rey’s vision to be about the future with her friends dying (thereby cutting out the throwback to TFA). Get rid of Rey saying “I’ve seen that ship before,” and then maybe change the Ochi engine color for good measure.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

This might be a dumb idea but would it be possible to just lift the scene of Rey watching the ship liftoff in the TFA trailer/TFA and use that as Rey’s parents leaving? That way, you can have two different ships for Ochi and Reyrents.

Obviously, that would also mean you’d have to cut out the scene from TFA as well (although with the clip I’m linking, I think it’s an alternate shot anyways so it might work without having to cut anything).

The clip in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE (0:26)

I think that could work, but it may not even be necessary. If we go with the angle that Rey’s parents don’t matter at all to this story, and that there’s therefore no reason to include them at all, we can just cut out any mention of Rey’s parents, and their connection to Ochi’s ship.

If we really want to distinguish between the ship seen in TFA and Ochi’s ship, we could just recolor the engines; but I really don’t think that’s necessary. The ship in TFA goes by so fast, most people probably wouldn’t even remember what it looks like by this film.

sade1212 said:

I think those other interpretations are still valid regardless of the end scene. I imagine the original idea was to write a title which had multiple interpretations relevant to the movie. It reminds me of Return of the Jedi - is it the Jedi Luke Skywalker returning to save Han Solo and defeat the Empire; the Jedi inside Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, returning to save his son; or is it the implication that in the wake of the Empire’s defeat Luke can now go on to start a new Jedi Order? It’s all three, right.

Agreed. I’m just highlighting the fact that there are other interpretations, since I previously suggested removing this part on a different thread, but I was met with “The whole point of the title is Rey taking the Skywalker name.”

So, like, are there any reasons to keep the exchange? I mean, if people like it, then fine; but given how meme-ed it’s been, it seems like it’s earned more mockery than praise.

Hal 9000 said:

I agree, great work! It really helps that Rey blinks and moves her eyes like she had been distracted.

Yeah, I don’t think I would have noticed if I wasn’t looking for it; and even then, it just looks like she was lost in her thoughts for a moment.

Great work, MR!

I was tossing around the idea of outright ditching the whole ending exchange. “Who are you? Rey who?” That nonsense. I honestly think the movie would be stronger with that line just cut outright. For one, it allows the epilogue at the Lars homestead to play out without any dialogue at all - whether you love or hate the line (I find it massively cringey myself), I think it would make for a really beautiful ending to the saga to do it entirely with the iconic visuals and the John Williams score.

Also, what’s the theme that’s portrayed by Rey calling herself “Skywalker”? The lesson of the film? The moral of the story? “Rather than be defined by the sins of your family, you can just pretend to not be related to them”? Does anyone find that lesson powerful? Let alone poignant?

The other benefit would be how much more depth could then be applied to the title of the film. If she calls herself “Rey Skywalker,” then “the rise of Skywalker” seems to refer pretty literally to Rey assuming the family name. If, however, Rey doesn’t outright claim to be a Skywalker, then there are so many other possible interpretations that could be made, such as:

• The galaxy “rising” up in the name of Skywalker
• Ben Solo-Skywalker rising above the Darkness and choosing the Light
• Ben Solo-Skywalker ascending to Jedi Heaven
• Rey choosing to follow in the Skywalker legacy (visually, not audibly, represented by them appearing to her)
• The spirit, the metaphorical soul of Luke Skywalker rising above the Emperor’s darkness.
• What the legend of “Skywalker” means to the galaxy
• etc. etc. etc.

There are so many new and wonderful interpretations that could be made. It would be beautiful, and insightful, and poetic. It would stick in the mind as something worth pondering. “What does “Rise of Skywalker” truly mean?”

Or Rey can just say “I’m a Skywalker!!” and trot along into the sunset. That’s deep too.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

No offense, Sherlock, but I completely dislike using that song there. It just makes me think of the people rising up montage and removes all of my emotional attachment to the current scene.

No offense taken; but I am confused why the music would remind you of that scene, considering an entirely different musical cue is used there…

And wait, even if it does remind you of that, doesn’t that connection make more sense than bringing up Yoda?? Your argument is basically, “Why would we forge a connection to something relevant to the film, when we already have a connection to something irrelevant to the film?”

I think the Rise of Skywalker Theme is only used three times in the original cut - when the trio sets out for Pasaana, at the beginning of the Lift X-Wing scene (before it drops out - my goal was to continue that through), and during the end reunion. When you look at the thematic tissue connecting those scenes, it seems like a natural fit to me to continue playing The Rise of Skywalker against the X-Wing.

DZ, I like it, but I still think the “thousand generations” should be mentioned for what they bring to the finale.

I think the best version of the scene would be:

“A thousand generations live in you now, but this is your fight.” “How do I get there?” “You have everything you need.”

In other words, cutting the “Take both sabers” line.

Okay, this is something I did very quickly to test out a few ideas. The audio isn’t mixed super great; it’s just a “What do you think about this?” kind of deal.

• Removed “You’ll take both sabers to Exegol.”
• New placement of “Always be with you.” Wish it could be padded out more, but what can you do? Maybe it could work; probably it’s still too cramped.
• Another attempt at a purpley sunrise. I don’t care much either way - I love Nev’s coloring in the scene - but I thought there was some interest in the Leia-symbolism of using some purple in there.
• Replacing Yoda’s Theme. (Screw you all! It’s wrong to include Yoda’s Theme! Wrong, I say! You’re defiling forty years of film scoring artistry!) No but seriously…what do you think of the new score? Does it work?

Even ignoring the blatant lack of Yoda, I like the idea that the key scene of “The Rise of Skywalker” is accompanied by “The Rise of Skywalker” Theme. Plus, Skywalker’s ship is “Rising” to “The Rise of Skywalker” Theme, Luke Skywalker is Skywalking to “The Rise of Skywalker” Theme, Rey is figuratively “Rising” to “The Rise of Skywalker” Theme…

Or, Yoda.

Wouldn’t it add so much more depth and meaning to this film than, “Hey, Luke is doing the same thing Yoda did 40 years ago! This is now special to me because I’ve watched the Star Wars-es!”? Does everything in this film have to be so superficial and empty? When I saw the film in theatres, I literally caught myself thinking, “Oh, ha, I get it. They’re doing the Yoda thing.” It took me completely out of the movie, and thereby destroyed any emotional connection I might have had to the scene. (AKA, “The exact opposite of what music is supposed to do in a film.”)

And something else to consider: for a film so frustratingly determined to stay stuck in the past, this would be a genuine chance to push it out in new directions for once.

https://streamable.com/ac2kle

Movies Remastered said:

This movie is the worst at treating the audience like idiots and constantly giving the “incase you’re not following this simple storyline here’s a reminder” dialogue.

Exactly. That’s also why I was suggesting tossing out the “Rey Skywalker” line. I feel like the scene has more significance without it.

EDIT: I’m one of those people who tends to suggest stuff here instead of the general thread. I guess I get confused about how to differentiate “This could be a great idea in Ascendant” vs. “This could be a great idea in any fan edit.” Sorry!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

EDIT: Wait…what if we just cut the lady out? Rey stands up, looks back, sees the ghosties, and flies away in the Falcon?

Kinda betrays the title of the movie. She needs to declare her newfound family.

Anyways, with the puppet show implemented soon, the ending scene will be a nearly exact replica of that Aki Aki lady asking for her last name. So the ending scene will be there to reflect her growth since then (she feels worthy to claim the Skywalker name now).

No no no, but hear me out…like Hal said, TROS takes everything annoyingly, uncomfortably literally - it feels the need to spell everything out, because it thinks the audience is stoopid and won’t understand subtext. But that doesn’t mean we have to. If Rey doesn’t outwardly declare herself a Skywalker at the end, the “Rise of Skywalker” could still refer to:

• The galaxy “rising” up in the name of Skywalker
• Ben Solo-Skywalker rising above the Darkness and choosing the Light
• Ben Solo-Skywalker ascending to Jedi Heaven
• Rey choosing to follow in the Skywalker legacy (visually, not audibly, represented by them appearing to her)
• The spirit, the metaphorical soul of Luke Skywalker rising above the Emperor’s darkness.
• What the legend of “Skywalker” means to the galaxy
• etc. etc. etc.

There are so many new and wonderful interpretations that could be made. It would be beautiful, and insightful, and poetic. It would stick in the mind as something worth pondering. “What does “Rise of Skywalker” truly mean?”

Or…Rey can just usurp the family name. That’s…meaningful, I guess?

EDIT: Maybe the lesson is, “Rather than be defined by the sins of your family, you can just pretend to not be related to them”? That’s…I mean, I wouldn’t call it “poignant,” but…

I didn’t hate it, Jar Jar. But that scene is infinitely more powerful with no dialogue at all.

“rEy WhO??”

EDIT: Wait…what if we just cut the lady out? Rey stands up, looks back, sees the ghosties, and flies away in the Falcon?

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Hal 9000 said:

https://vimeo.com/523070856

I think this is one of those changes that works better as a concept rather than in actual practice. I just think the syntax of it is weird. If it was something like “A thousand generations live in you now… and we’ll always be with you… But this is your fight.”, it wouldn’t sound as wonky to me. But, I’m not sure if that’s possible.

😕

Agreed. Technically, it sounds like it’s incorporated well into the scene; but structurally, it doesn’t flow. It’s just a bunch of sentences without any flow between them.

jarbear said:

DZ-330 said:

Removing the “A thousand generations live in you now” line seems like the better option. Luke is implying that it is only her who can fight Palpatine and yet all the voices and ghosts appear. If it is Rey’s fight then why are they even showing up?!

Maybe removing that whole line and replacing with the below would be even better and lead to less contradictions?

“…someone who would finish her journey. We’ll always be with you. You’ll take both sabers to Exegol.”

To me it makes the Rey Skywalker scene at the end make more sense and is more personal. Luke is assuring Rey that him and Leia will always be with Rey, so when Rey sees them at the end of the movie it is just reassuring the familial bond they now have, and further reinforces why Rey is choosing her last name to be Skywalker. Plus, it removes the contradiction of it being Rey’s fight yet ALL the Jedi show up in spirit.

Whew… that was a lot lol

JEDIT: Plus it allows us to remove the last awful wig shot of Luke that jonh was having trouble with.

JEDIT 2!: It appears to show more of Luke providing wisdom to Rey rather than pushing off the fight on her.

Me gusta.

Sorry, Im personally not a fan of the whole "1000’s of generations of Jedi are in you … which is not true on any level. How many generations were in Luke? How about all the Jedi before? Wait, there wasn’t right? (yes)

Also, didn’t the whole “Jedi ghost stuff” appear due to the end of ROTS to be shown in the OT? So it wasn’t possible before? So … how can she have access to 1000 generations of something that isn’t there.

If I started recording something my room as of today … I don’t have access to any videos of my room prior to that since it didn’t start until recently.

SOrry … I just don’t get it and it completely dismisses/at odds with the movies before.

I don’t think it dismisses the previous movies. When somebody (i.e. Jedi) die, they move from the Living Force to the Cosmic Force. In Clone Wars, they explain that Qui-Gon is the first to manifest as a being in the Cosmic Force, but they rest of them are still a part of it.

My interpretation of the line is: “Rey, all of these Jedi are one with the Force, and we will all come to you when you need us.”

It ties back to “Be with me,” with the Ghosts showing up at the end, and with the “destiny of the Jedi” thingy that Luke was prattling on about two minutes earlier.

Look, I lothe TROS, but I truly don’t believe there’s anything wrong with this line, canonically or thematically.