sherlockpotter

Brewzter said:

Maybe the extended trailer shot of Kylo’s ship flying toward Rey? I’m not sure if that was used in this edit or not. But it could show that he’s arrived and will be there soon

I believe that was already included during the actual Kylo sequence? But Star Wars has no shortage of desert planets. Maybe we could take an establishing shot from one of those other movies, and just hear the exploding stormtrooper echoing in the distance?

You know, one of the worst examples of this film’s rushed pacing is, I think, right before they get swallowed up in the cave on Pasaana. Their ships explode, they crash-land, they immediately start firing 10 million blaster shots at the last stormtrooper, which then starts zipping around. It smashes head-first into a cliff, it explodes, and they immediately start sinking into the ground. So you have a cacophony of noise, and two tangentially related problems that are immediately stacked on one another without any breathing room whatsoever.

In my mind, what the sequence desperately needs is a brief moment after the last stormtrooper is defeated. A slight pause to catch our breath, and then…there’s a light trickling rock sound; it builds, and the ground begins to swallow them up.

Does anyone have any ideas of a shot that could potentially be used to pad it out? A character close-up, or a landscape shot? Heck, maybe we could even find some cutaway to Kylo beginning to fly down to the planet’s surface? Then cut back when Poe stumbles.

Personally, I don’t think the lore specifics matter for crap. I’m sure there are dozens of ways you can rationalize any interpretation, regardless of what Palpy’s “true” appearance is.

So, for me, I think Cap has a point in that the wrinkly clones are more intelligible to the audience. I think it might be interesting to see a more gradual progression; like, they start young in the vat, and then by the time we get to the sentient one, he’s all pruney. But that just raises the question of why he wouldn’t use one of the fresh, young clones instead of the blind, monster-face one.

I guess I lean toward keeping it as-is with the shriveled vat Clones.

Man, if people are interested in Ascendant now, just wait until they learn what’s on the docket for V2!

I was thinking, Hal, didn’t you give yourself an editor credit in the Prequels? I’d say Ascendant has changed enough from the theatrical cut that you should get credit for this one too. Any plans on adding your name at the end?

Building off of what jarbear said - I think with Han, Han was always kind of snarky and cranky to everyone, and you could tell that 3PO in particular actively annoyed him (cockblocking him with Leia, complaining about his flying). With the new gang, it just feels like they don’t care about him either way. Like, Han treated him like an annoying coworker - he was still a presence with a personality; the Trio just treats him like a soulless machine.

That said, I can’t think of any moment that really seems as callous as when they decide to go to Kijimi. If anyone else is interested, it may be worth it to try and play with that scene, see if anything can be done.

No worries if you don’t want to use it, Hal; I don’t even remember who raised the issue in the first place. To what earlier line are you referring though? I don’t recall any others off-hand.

And yeah, there I did add an “s” to the end of the word, but I can make it louder. I didn’t want to just copy the earlier use of “Taking one last look at my friends.” I was worried that copying the line so soon after would be too obvious; so I had to get the word “friend” from somewhere else.

Honestly, I find it more distasteful how 3PO describes this procedure as “dangerous and sinful” or whatever, and none of our heroes even care for a second. Poe’s more worried about bumping into his ex than he is about potentially hurting or damaging this Star Wars icon. I wonder if it would be possible to slot in a little extra Poe dialogue, something like “Let’s do that!” “Well… I do know a black-market droidsmith. But he’s on Kijimi.” Maybe extend the sequence with a shot of a worried look from Rey. Gives them at least a moment to ponder over the ramifications of what they’re about to do to their “friend,” while still letting Finn make his little joke.

I seem to recall some discussion a while back about changing 3PO’s final line before being memory wiped, so that it doesn’t sound like he’s chickening out of his sacrifice. Here’s a test run I did, using a newly spliced together line:

https://streamable.com/oupkpm

Something I’ve been thinking about, based on RogueLeader’s idea for Rey to receive a vision of the Death Star when she picks up the dagger on Kylo’s ship…

It feels (to me, at least) to be the perfect moment to reveal Palpatine’s return structurally (“structurally” as in, at this point of the movie - about a third to halfway through the film). It would mean that the stakes for the film are allowed to grow naturally as it progresses - we’d have been told about the Sith Fleet ahead of time, but now we know how the Fleet came to be. It’s not just introducing some dumb power spike (like “planet-destroying Star Destroyers”) that’s never relevant to the film again; it’s a raising of the stakes that actually has relevance, and changes the scope and urgency of the mission.

Plus, it makes Grandpa Palp’s return a legitimate twist, rather than a hasty retcon for the final film.

So, how would you go about doing it?

• In the Exegol opening, cut out most of Palpy’s dialogue. Maybe keep some vague line like “Come to me” (“Huh, what? Who said that? That sounded like Palpatine!”), or just replace the whole thing with Sith Whispers. Cut to black with a little music sting as Kylo walks off camera, to investigate Palpatine something. (“Ooh, what’s he looking at? What’s on Exegol?” Mystery, baby; that’s what.) Fade in on Rey.
• During the Resistance Intel Meeting, trim direct references to Palpatine. Focus on the discussions about the Sith Fleet on Exegol. “It’s gonna blow us all up if we don’t find it!”
• Rey tells Leia they have to find a way to find a Way-Finder (God, this movie…) in order to “Find Exegol. Find the Emperor.”
• Kylo Boardroom Meeting is fine. They just talk about the Sith Cultists, the Fleet, and a mysterious “he.” (Who’s “he,” you ask? It’s a mystery, baby!!)
• In the Pasaana Skype Call, replace Kylo’s line “Palpatine wants you dead” with the later “Wherever you are, you’re hard to find.” Or, heck, just have him stare at Rey menacingly. I don’t care.
• Move Kylo’s Palpatine conversation back to right before Endor. Or overdub the scene completely. Have Kylo talk to himself, something like, “Please, Rey. Join me. Let me find you.” Or even call back to TFA, say “Grandfather, help me find her.”
• Slot in a shot of the Emperor during Rey’s Dagger Vision, have his laugh linger in the air after the vision fades. She whispers a disbelieving “No…” in response.
• Replace Kylo’s next line with the previously swapped out “Palpatine wants you dead.”
• Re-add the scene of Palps raising the Sith Fleet out of the ground to right after Rey leaves Ahch-To. He’s preparing the Fleet to depart.

The rest of it should play out exactly the same, I’m pretty sure.

So, in summary, you’d get:

• A better structured sense of building stakes.
• A surprising, twist Emperor reveal that’s actually built towards and hinted at, rather than a quick, “Hello, boys! I’m baaaaaaack!” in the first five minutes.
• Gives Palpatine’s return more personal stakes to Rey, as she’s the one who discovers it…instead of Hux?
• Palpatine’s plan doesn’t contradict itself every other scene. (Kill her! Don’t kill her! Bring her to me! No, lure her here! Oh, she’s here anyway? Kill me! You won’t? Fine, kill her! No wait, I can just suck up her life force! Ha, I’m a genius!)
• The Sith Fleet rising is now an actual source of tension, and is a visual representation of the Fleet being ready to depart. (Shit Poe, you’ve gotta take them down now!) No more “Okay boys, you in place? Great. Just hang out here for 16 hours an arbitrary amount of time until I feel like launching the ships, cool? Maybe wait for like 20 minutes after the Resistance arrives. Then you can start leaving.”
• Have Rey say “No…” to something actually significant while holding the Dagger, instead of *checks notes* repeating an echo of a vision of a memory of herself that the knife reminded her of? (God, this movie…)

I know that we’re trying to incorporate the Dagger-Vision angle for Ascendant, which is the first piece to all of this; but this felt like one of those “dramatic changes” that Hal probably wouldn’t jump on right away - hence my suggesting it here. But you never know, Hal…

axlanian said:

sherlockpotter said:

Hal 9000 said:

After the interrupted execution scene…

Stormtrooper: “What are you doing down here?”

C-3PO: “I am a highly-trained Resistance spy.”

Stormtrooper: “Then why ar- wait, what?”

[PEW!]

Okay, here’s a stab at this. I don’t think there’s enough screen time to fit in a “What are you doing down here?” But I could try speeding up the 3PO clip.

(Note: I just muted the movie audio when they talk, so it’s just isolated dialogue right now)

1: https://vimeo.com/538100524
2: https://vimeo.com/538100551

I actually cracked up at this. Brilliant job!

I wonder if we might be able to speed up the 3PO line enough to squeeze in the first Stormtrooper line, just because he’s gesturing as if he’s saying something. (I think he original line was “What’s your operating number?” We could potentially squeeze a little more time out of it if you could record “Who are you?”) Or maybe there’s an extra shot we could slot in of some random stormtroopers in the hanger to pad it out?

Would it be possible for you to share just the line you recorded? I’d like to play around with it later.

Cap, that poster idea sounds really cool!

Hal, I don’t think English would be inappropriate. After all, English was in the the Original Trilogy before the Dark Times…before the Special Editions. I think it should be whatever is most clear for the audience; and I’m worried that a quick flash of a poster might just feel like a little Easter egg. (“Haha, look, it’s the original Star Wars poster! How fun!”) If there are multiple signs that the audience can read that say “Skywalker Lives!” it would help to make the uprising more clear.

RogueLeader, I went through the scene again, and I didn’t really notice any blasters or fighting, at least when they first arrive. There are some explosions when Poe and Zorii are on the roof, but they sort of come out of nowhere. Are the First Order bombing people who are breaking curfew? What? Before that, all I could make out were some marching stormtrooper sounds, and some demands to “Show us your identification.” In fact, it completely goes against the idea that the Civilian Fleet would show up at the end, because the whole sequence is just people cowering in fear in their homes. “They win because they make you think you’re alone.” No, Keri Russell, they win because they’ll f*cking blow you up if you’re outside after dark.

(There’s also some stormtrooper-ing after Kylo lands, but that feels like it’s on Kylo’s orders, rather than being a progression of ongoing fighting.)

And I’m not sure about a First Order announcement; I’d much rather put the emphasis on the Kijimi citizens rising up against their oppressors, than on the First Order doing more oppressing. Otherwise the theme of hope and rebellion will become lost.

I definitely don’t have the technical know-how for this, but it would be amazing if we could add some visual effects too. Like when they run into Zorii, there could be a bright flash at the top of the alley, as if an explosion went off. Or when Zorii tells them to keep low, and they run across the street, it would be cool if we could mute Finn’s quipping (“Poe Dameron: Runner of Spice! Tee hee!”) and maybe even show some blaster shots firing past them. It would be kind of a little callback to the opening of A New Hope with C-3PO and R2-D2. (Though ideally with a less-comedic tone.)

Hal 9000 said:

Kijimi graffiti could be cool, to hint at the pending ‘rise’ of ‘Skywalker’ in the heart of the people, if indeed someone wishes to bring it about. Otherwise, it’s not necessary.

Graffiti would be cool; but wasn’t it also suggested that there could be explosions and blaster fire off in the distance? Maybe a few cries of “Death to the First Order!” to show that they’re starting to rebel. Heck, someone could even call out “Protect the children!” to tie back into the earlier comment of “We have to start harvesting more of the galaxy’s young.”

And a “canon” suggestion that in TLJ no one came to help because the First Order left the phone off the hook is dumb as hell. I’m really starting to not care much at all for “canon” surrounding this movie or the ST overall. Death of the “author” is best for those, it seems. (I see this as a separate concern from not going out of my way to make edits inconsistent with books-and-things-like-that to come.)

Never forget:

Hey Hal, are you interested in using RogueLeader’s ideas for Kijimi in Ascendant too? About having it be mid-Civil War with people fighting stormtroopers off in the distance?

(Slight deviation from the Dagger discussions, I know.)

That looks amazing, poppasketti! At first I was a little uncertain about the yellow inside the ship (I thought it was just all black at first), but then I realized they did the same thing with the original red; so yeah, I definitely think it should be changed inside too.

Also, kudos for noticing the color in the reflection on the floor too, you cheeky bastard, you. That really helps to sell it.

Hal, the only potential problem with going 3PO -> Horse Man™ -> Rey, is that the only pause before Jannah agrees to help would be the extra shot of her I added. Not only might the scene feel rushed, but I’m also worried about drawing too much attention to that specific shot, because it’s just a reversed shot from earlier.

I dunno…do you think it still works?

https://streamable.com/35t8k8

Right-o, well, here’s the Jannah Introduction shot. I made the 3PO movement sound effects pretty soft, to match the original scene. I also tried exporting the surround audio channels, but feel free to double check that they’re all mapped properly; I’m just working with a pair of stereo headphones.

Any other thoughts on this scene? The new sound effects? Things that could be tweaked further?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15GIOWKnGJLY25kbPZKBqzabwdYA40xcC/view?usp=sharing

RogueLeader said:

I actually think Jar Jar is playing a great devil’s advocate role for this idea, because it does require a bit of work to figure this shit out.

That’s actually why I think having a more extended vision montage, in the vein of Dom’s edit of Kylo touching Vader’s helmet, would be beneficial to the moment she touches the blade. Rey blinks right as she says, “No”, in that shot where she holds the dagger. You could potentially slow her blink down, as if she were closing her eyes to focus, then go into the vision sequence. Get a few shots displaying Rey’s “darkness”, and she’s rewarded with a glimpse of the Death Star. Then Kylo interrupts her.

I think something like that could potentially show more intent regarding what Rey did to obtain that knowledge. So the audience isn’t left wondering, “If Rey just kept holding it in the cave, would it have eventually shown her the location of the Wayfinder?”

Two other things I suggested before, to help make it more apparent: coloring Rey’s eyes Sith yellow just before/after the vision; and also, in the vision montage itself, I think it would be neat if we could replicate the same kind of filter that was used in Episode III. Not only would it have significant Dark Side implications, but it would also help to differentiate it from the other visions Rey and Kylo have during the movie. Plus, I think it would be nice to have a little callback to the Prequels.

Here’s a thought: with the new Dark Side Knife idea, could that be the influence that pushes Rey to activate Force Lightning? Like, the Dagger is really starting to unlock her Dark Side potential more than ever before, which is why she couldn’t use it immediately? Maybe add a couple of Sith Whispers right before the lightning launches or something.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Movies Remastered said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

EDIT: Also when I say “ancient” I definitely don’t mean 30 years. Not sure where you got that impression, MR.

The dagger was made to pinpoint the location of the Wayfinder on the DSII which would’ve only been there around 30 years. The movie treats the dagger like it’s ancient but it’s not possible if that was its original purpose?

Ochi simply modified it with Sith runes because he thought it would be cool for it to point to something only he knew about.

Um…what? Also, “how?” and “why?” and “huh?”

If only he knew about the Wayfinder and its location, why would he need to write directions to it? And how would he have found it in the first place? And how did Luke know about the Wayfinders?

“You there, Ochi! You look like a man who’s been to Exegol. How do Lando and I get there?”
“I’ll never tell you about the Wayfinders!”
“Oho, so there’s something called a Wayfinder involved, is there?”
“Doh!”

Anyway, I think this is losing sight of Ascendant. Since Hal has already expressed an interest in RogueLoader’s proposed changes, I suggest moving further Dagger-lore discussions to one of the other threads.

(To be fair though, I’m getting a hilarious mental image of Ochi having a little picnic on the Endor cliff, complete with picnic basket and blanket, humming away as he slowly whittles the knife down, constantly checking to make sure it’s still aligned with the outline of the wreckage.)

dzabdehat said:

sherlockpotter said:

Also, does anyone know where I could find some “C-3PO” moving sound effects? You know, that whirring noise that his limbs make? It was in the center channel underneath the dialogue that I removed, and I’d like to add it back.

I’ve added all sounds effects assigned to C-3PO from the VR game here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HwyxORkfLpp7x0VGb30dksV4NKbbhuqX/view?usp=sharing - some of them are the whirring noise, but for some reason they don’t sound exactly right to me - you may need to EQ and cut them, or find a better source.

Amazing work on all those clips, sherlockpotter. It’s Hal’s choice, but I do hope one of them is in V2.

I won’t miss the “oldest friend” joke at all, and on top of everything already mentioned, even if Babu knew they were going to Endor, I just can’t see his character sending a message to the horse people about Rey, the last hope, coming to their planet. It’s as if Watto sent a message to the Gungans to expect Padme.

My man! Wow, I was not expecting 167 different sound options lol. I’ll go through them later today. Thanks so much for finding all of this audio for us!

Hal 9000 said:

I’m all for anything that allows the audience’s intuition to function without being chloroformed by retcon-heavy canon stuff being hurled in reaction like so much orangutan diarrhea.

I don’t care so much about the immediate canon surrounding TROS, since it’s just antibodies rejecting a transplanted organ. I just don’t want to take radical swipes that would make this edit not at all function with the eventual 12-novel Luke Skywalker series I’ll hopefully get to read.

The good news on that front, is that Luke has never seen the Dagger before - let alone a Wayfinder - and doesn’t seem to know that the MacGuffin he’s after is a Dagger at all. Meaning we can do whatever we want with the knife, and unless that Luke Skywalker series decides to ret-con the original TROS itself, we’re in the clear.

Now, if you’re holding out for Ochi: A Star Wars Story, the Sequel-Prequel dramedy directed by Paul Feig and starring Tom Hardy as Ochi, well…you might be a little disappointed.

Also, does anyone know where I could find some “C-3PO” moving sound effects? You know, that whirring noise that his limbs make? It was in the center channel underneath the dialogue that I removed, and I’d like to add it back.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Yes, but at some point you have to consider whether it’s worth removing parts of the film in order to accommodate for something that only some people take issue with.

On the other hand, Jar Jar, flip that around. A lot of people think the dagger plotline is stupid. Is it worth including all of that nonsense, just for the sake of one joke that only some people care about? If we have to cut a single joke in order for the story to actually make sense, I personally think that it’s worth it.

So it seems like the consensus is to use V2, but keep the “Heads up” line, and trim the gap before Rey starts talking?

Jar Jar, the “Please” was from the earlier test I did, but it was already nixed for the other two versions. Just so there’s no confusion, I’ve redone v1 without it.

Also, in response to Neerb, “Heads up!” is in the original theatrical/Ascendant V1 track. I’ve done a quick job of removing it; but it’s a little tricky, because most of the horse noises were in the same track as Poe’s line. I’ve basically gone and looped some of the clopping sounds and faded them in.

And per Mildly-yellow, we can definitely trim some of the gaps a little more. I wanted to keep as much tension hanging in the air as possible, but if the scene flows better when the edit is tighter, that’s fine too.

• v1.2 - Rey speaks, then 3PO speaks. Added reversed Jannah shot. Removed the “Please” from v1.0, and removed Poe’s “Heads up!”
  https://streamable.com/g7ocz1
• v2 - Moved 3PO’s line to immediately after the crane shot; added the additional Jannah shot
  https://streamable.com/82rw1u
• v3 - 3PO’s line is immediately after the crane shot; moved Horse Guy™ between 3PO’s line and Rey’s line; added the Jannah shot after Rey’s line; split the 3PO shot, putting the second part of it before Jannah agrees to help.
  https://streamable.com/ldxu2u

Cap, that’s basically how it was structured in v1 of that line. I could put it back in that order, maybe including the reversed Jannah shot if we think that works?

DZ-330, I think I ran into a problem with the “It appears I am…” with it running too long, given the amount of footage there is to work with. If people want to pursue that, I could play around with it; but it seems like the general feeling is to use the “Ally” line with Jannah, and one of the “Spy” lines with the stormtrooper?

So it seems that we’re kind of split between the three versions. (Take that, J.J.; you’re not the only one who can divide the fan base.) Is there anything I could do to help iron out any of them? Specific shots or orders that work best?

v1: https://streamable.com/sr8x26
v2: https://streamable.com/82rw1u
v3: https://streamable.com/ldxu2u

Based on feedback, here are a few more variations. I tried experimenting with stretching out pauses by reusing (and reversing) a shot of Jannah on the horse-thing. Hopefully it’s not too apparent.

My intention with all of these tests is for everyone to go insane over this.

• “Don’t You Know an Ally” v2 - Moved 3PO’s line to immediately after the crane shot; added the additional Jannah shot
  https://streamable.com/82rw1u
• “Highly Trained Resistance Spy” v2 - Moved the line to before Rey’s, but after a new awkward pause, per Hal’s suggestion; added the Jannah shot.
  https://streamable.com/7wp2rm
• “Don’t You Know An Ally” v3 - 3PO’s line is immediately after the crane shot; moved Horse Guy™ between 3PO’s line and Rey’s line; added the Jannah shot after Rey’s line; split the 3PO shot, putting the second part of it before Jannah agrees to help.
  https://streamable.com/ldxu2u

The added words can definitely be removed. I do think if we go for one of the funnier lines, that there should be some sort of exasperated reaction from the others, either audibly or visually, but I’m open to suggestions for that.

I had some slight misgivings about the ally line, just because why would 3PO think they could be trusted if Poe doesn’t trust them? But they’re clearly not stormtroopers…maybe reverse the shot, so that 3PO turns to look at Poe instead and says it to him? (Maybe I’m overthinking it and it would be fine as is…)

And Hal, moving 3PO’s line to earlier, is that kind of like what I did in that last clip there? How do you feel about it?

A few test runs for everyone to ponder:

• “Don’t you know an ally when you see one?”

https://streamable.com/sr8x26

• “I am a highly trained Resistance spy”

https://streamable.com/3ips7s

• “The Resistance sent us…”

https://streamable.com/qloiwe

• “I am the top Resistance spy master”

https://streamable.com/8roz1q

• The Same “The Resistance sent us” line as before, but this time moved to before Rey makes her request:

https://streamable.com/cmlfkr

I’d still love if Jannah could somehow explicitely say “Fine” or “Alright” or something. Jarbear, I appreciate the clip, but I don’t think her tone there quite works in this scene.