Sign In

sherlockpotter

User Group
Members
Join date
31-Jan-2021
Last activity
3-Aug-2021
Posts
514

Post History

Post
#1441361
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

DZ-330 said:

Master Lawdog said:

Because during the flashback where Luke was training her, the twins were still young, and it is very likely that Ben had not been born at that point. By having Leia end her Jedi training to focus on being a mother, it would make sense to lay down her lessons from Luke. It also makes it seem Ben chose to die rather than it being destined to be.

What if…

Luke: “It was the last night of her training. Leia told me that she had sensed the death of her son at the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day… it would be picked up again… by someone who would finish her journey. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

Leia quits being a Jedi, because as it has been explained numerous times, she never wanted to be one. Leia wanted to focus on politics and then dumped her son on Luke later on to train. What if we just make that line about Leia realizing that, being a Jedi is not for her, and someone else would eventually take her spot. In my opinion, it makes her taking on Rey as a trainee even stronger as she believes Rey would be her successor as a Jedi. Just food for thought!

I had suggested that a while back - I’m pretty sure I even did a mock-up of it - the last I heard Hal was on the fence about it though.

Hal, any thoughts? I can dig through my files and reupload it later if you want to see it again.

Post
#1440985
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

I think I’d prefer the default version of this project not to venture down the path of making her parents back into shitheads, but I see your point.

I mean, there’s another sticky point here that we’re all ignoring: If we want to go with a Rey Palpatine version, then the character arc/theme is “Your bloodline decides how good or evil you are,” which is not only weird as hell (why would morality be a genetic trait?), but it’s also tangentially explored by Kylo’s storyline. (Although I think that one works better because Kylo wants to embrace the Dark Side, unlike Rey.)

So the problem is, if you want to make Rey’s parents be good guys, that effectively negates the already ludicrous theme that Chris and J.J. are trying to explore. If your bloodline determines your morality, why is Rey’s dad a good guy when his dad is evil incarnate? And more importantly, if Rey comes from two good people, wouldn’t that mean she is genetically “good”? By the movie’s own logic, Rey’s parents being good means she doesn’t have to worry about being susceptible to the Dark Side at all.

So you can make a movie about how Rey is descended from a line of “shitheads,” and she has to break the cycle. Or, more powerfully imo, make a movie about how Rey is her own person, and she rises or falls on her own merits, not her gene pool. (Rey Nobody ftw!) What makes absolutely no thematic sense is to have Rey be descended from Palpatine, but also have her parents be good, kindly folks.

DZ-330 said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Ah, what a mess.

This should have been the main tagline for the film haha

Can we put this on the TROS poster? Please?

Post
#1440887
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

The trouble is, every line that Kylo says here is something to the effect of “you’ve just repressed your memory of them,” which, as Burbin so beautifully articulated, is unbelievably stupid. You’d have to change the whole conversation to undo the implications of that; and at that point, we might as well wait until Rey Nobody.

Which…actually begs a question… RogueLeader said that he had started working on this scene for Rey Nobody a while back. Depending on his vision for this scene - what it actually says for the story - could we just “Rey Nobody” this one scene, and maintain the Palpatine connection for the rest of it?

When you think about it, there are two separate, big (subjective) flaws with how they did Rey Palpatine - the first is that it means she has super blood that makes her special, rather than being special due to her own strength; but the second is that they decided to make Rey’s parents lovely, self-sacrificial folks. The two don’t necessarily have to be related. You could say that Rey’s grandpappy was Palps, without changing the fact that her parents were awful people who abandoned her. (Maybe the audience would assume the Sith like to abandon their children. Because they’re EVIL.)

So maybe we could replace this scene to avoid referencing her parents. Keep the hangar reveal “You…are a Palpatine.” And then cut Rey’s one line in the end that “My parents were strong.” It keeps the Palpatine ancestry, and it doesn’t explicitly negate either TLJ canon or TROS canon as far as her parents are concerned. For Rey Nobody then, you’d just have to also redub the Hangar scene and some of Palpy’s dialogue on Exegol, but we’d already be halfway there.

Post
#1440670
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

That’s a good point too - that this entire conversation is likely going to be changed in Rey Nobody to avoid talking about her parents. RogueLeader, I know you’re still probably working on that, but what do you think? In what sort of direction are you planning on taking it?

For the Rey Palpatine cut…I’m not so fussed about him saying “You remember more than you say.” If that concept is the problem, “I’ve been in your head” has essentially the same meaning. “Search your memories,” “Remember them”…it all comes down to saying Rey does remember her parents. To fully preserve Rey not having heroic memories of them in the last movie, you’d have to rewrite this entire scene anyway.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Rey having repressed memories of her parents really undoes the TLJ revelation any more than does retconning her parents in the first place - at that point, the thematic poignancy is already ruined.

Post
#1440591
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

@DrVibble Regarding your review. At one point you mention drama about Lucasfilm and Kennedy. You better not be referring to those false “civil war” rumors from Doomcock…

“You['d] better not be,” followed by an ominous ellipsis? What the heck? Am I the only one reading this as a threat? DrVibble took the time to write out a very thorough and kind review, and that’s your response? What’s your problem?

Hey mods, is making vague threats against other users enough to get Testing kicked off this thread? Please?

Post
#1440589
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DrVibble said:

Kylo’s altered dialogue to “You were right.” definitely helped in terms of continuity and logic, but though it’s close enough to pass for Kylo’s voice on its own, next to his real masked voice it’s pretty clear that it sounds different; the accent doesn’t quite match, and it feels more flat. Are there any plans to retouch this line for future versions?

Nice review here! I made a mock-up of what is, in my opinion, a more organic line in this scene a while back. I’m glad to hear that even for a first-time viewer this line sounds off. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcsLeRB5Uyk

I don’t remember seeing this before. I like the idea though! You’d just need to add more echo and reverb to the new line to make it match the rest of the dialogue.

Cinefy said:

Theres a removed line featured in the TROS D23 Special Look, where Palpatine tells Rey “You’re journey, nears It’s end”. Any ideas where it could have possibly fit in the film. Was initially thinking it could be implemented during Rey’s vision while training in the jungle as a subtle echo of his voice calling out to her.

timestamp [1:31]
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n1T3HxHd7Y

Maybe this could be used in the Rey Nobody version to replace “For my granddaughter to come home”? She walks in, hears Palps behind her: “Long have I waited. [And now] your journey nears its end. You will take the throne.” It would just depend on getting a clean enough extraction of the line.

Post
#1440160
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Depends on what tense we want to use, I suppose. Present Simple - “He travels” - or present perfect - “He has traveled.”

I think “he journeys” would sound fine, or “he has arrived” would also work. And there was one other thing in the crawl…”by silencing their enemies” or something like that? I don’t think it needs anything else.

I still go back and forth on “chasing a hidden power that has been rising in the shadows” or whatever, just to make Kylo’s intentions more vague and mysterious. But that’s a really tiny nitpick.

Post
#1439075
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I kind of agree with Burbin about not needing the “You’re just a clone” line, but not necessarily for the same reasons. For me, it goes back to the old axiom “show, don’t tell.” We already see the Palpatine clones in the vat, so I don’t think it’s wholly necessary to spell it out for the audience on top of that. But this film already has a problem with clunky, unnecessary exposition, so whatever.

If the AI works, it would be fine to include it. Sure, cool. But I don’t think it’s necessary at all. (Mainly thanks to poppa’s incredible VFX work.)

Post
#1438454
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

DrVibble said:

I know you’re in the process of changing Rey’s climactic line to “And I… am a Jedi.”, but I had an alternative idea for that line a while ago that I thought would be appropriate to share here:

Would “And we… are all the Jedi.” be plausible?

Considering your (incredibly awesome) addition of the four Force Ghosts assisting Rey, this change could really solidify the unity Rey has achieved with the rest of the past Jedi, truly making it ALL of them who overcome a true embodiment of the ethics of the Light and Dark sides, as well as further concluding the film’s through-line about “There are more of us”, which is also helped by sherlockpotter’s excellent redo of the Zorii-Poe convo. It would also make it less directly similar to the “I am Iron Man” exchange from Avengers: Endgame.

Hey, I appreciate the feedback! (And we’re still working on that Kijimi audio, so stay tuned for that!)

Your change makes a lot of sense from the perspective of enhancing Rey’s connection with the past Jedi; but one of the intentions with the line change was to make it more about Rey’s personal journey, whereas the “past Jedi” thing is only mentioned once or twice in the film.

DrVibble said:

I imagined as a sort of one-up over Palpatine…

Funnily enough, this is one of the reasons I suggested changing the line in the first place; because “Nu-uh, I’m more powerful than you!!” - which was my main takeaway from “I’m all the Sith, I’m all the Jedi” - isn’t super interesting to me from a character perspective. Whereas, “I am a Jedi” has two meanings to me:

  • Firstly, in the context of this film, where she’s been struggling to resist the Dark Side. Now, “I am a Jedi” means that she has been able to overcome that seduction, and has retained her goodness. It culminates her arc.

  • Secondly, in the context of the Sequel Trilogy as a whole, it encompasses her journey from lowly scavenger to noble Jedi - which is beautifully portrayed by sade1212’s seamless rearrangement of Palpatine’s dialogue:

“A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.”

“I am a Jedi.”

Post
#1437918
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Whelp…I tried incorporating the LEGO Holiday Special audio; and unfortunately, I don’t think it works. There’s a very clear divide between the two voices, I think, when they’re placed side by side like that. I’ve posted the audio (isolated from the center channel) here, for both LEGO Rey’s line and Human Rey’s original line, in case anyone else wants to take a stab at it:

https://mega.nz/file/Xl0U3ApT#EKYZgapWB33OgakJ694oBUxhC4Ys4aHyfboQT49v4GU

Also, regarding the suggestion of using Battlefront audio, I went through that a while back looking for instances of Rey saying “I am a,” but I didn’t find anything that worked. The examples I found were too rushed, so the different sounds just mushed together and I wasn’t able to split them up cleanly.

Sooo…unless anyone else has other ideas for supplementing the audio, I’ll just repost my latest test below. You know, real casual-like…

sherlockpotter said:

Did a little more smoothing out on “I” and “am a.” Is it any better?

Also, maybe I’ve watched this clip too many times, but what if Palps says, “I am all the Sith. You are nothing. A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” Sade, you’re the expert - did we try it that way already? Would it make any significant difference to the scene?

Hell if I know.

https://streamable.com/81qs12

Post
#1437904
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Master Lawdog said:

So I got real busy with my personal life today, unfortunately. Tomorrow, I promise I will send Speaking of AI the lines. Here is the video I will be sending him just in case anyone here had anything to say about it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P52nZKa4kmdAy6srNg9wyKYvHR2FtGdM/view

I’m still worried about “You’ll die instead.” I don’t think we’ll be able to pull it off with the lip sync, and I think the subtextual difference from changing the line is negligible. I guess it couldn’t hurt to request it, but…

Anyway, thanks again for assembling all of this!

Post
#1437852
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Master Lawdog said:

Also, I’ll get him to do some lines for some scenes that people have tested out in the Rey Nobody thread. Also, an idea came up for me. How would you all feel if he calls out Rey’s name at the end when she looks off into the horizon to see him, Luke and Leia?

If it were up to me, I’d probably remove all dialogue from the epilogue - just let the music and visuals carry it; although, in a similar vein to your idea, I suggested at one point that Ben could call out to her right before she “strikes [Palpatine] down,” and it’s his voice that brings her back from the brink.

So, I guess it would be the same “Rey…” line, just in a different spot. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Post
#1437697
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Yeah, the TIEs are a must - otherwise they’d just pop up out of of nowhere in the next shot. In my head, I was thinking: The Falcon bursts through the wall, jumps to Hyperspace. The Knights’ ship flies into frame, implying that Finn and Poe just barely escaped in time, and then it moves towards the Iceberg (to murder Boolio off-screen).

Plus, since the audience wouldn’t know to whom this ship belongs yet, it would be add a layer of intrigue to the early part of the film. “Who’s this? They’re accompanied by an evil music cue…what’s going to happen next?”

Post
#1437590
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Hey, here’s a random thought…after the Falcon escapes from Iceberg Planet™ - either right after, or at least before the board meeting - what if there was another wide shot of the iceberg; but instead of TIEs flying in all willy-nilly, it’s a shot of the Knights of Ren’s shuttle approaching the landmass?

That way, we’d get an extra moment to breath in the movie, while also foreshadowing Boolio’s imminent decapitation. It would also help to portray the Knights as hunters/trackers, going after the information leak, rather than “guys who stand around with big, dumb swords.”

Post
#1437290
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Okay, finally had a chance to watch the episode and go back through the thread. *cough* Spoilers *cough* 😉 (Thanks for going back through and hiding them!)

I think we should just leave the Palpy clones as-is. Changing the clone design might make it harder to identify who’s in the tank, and the red feels very “Sith-y.” Plus, just like the purple lightsaber, I like that the red color cuts through some of the monochrome Exegol murk. It makes the shot a little more visually interesting, imo.

If you want a lore-based reason, just say that the new version has rotted with age. Or different planets use different compounds.

jadenkorr41 said:

sherlockpotter said:

Did a little more smoothing out on “I” and “am a.” Is it any better?

Also, maybe I’ve watched this clip too many times, but what if Palps says, “I am all the Sith. You are nothing. A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” Sade, you’re the expert - did we try it that way already? Would it make any significant difference to the scene?

Hell if I know.

https://streamable.com/81qs12

lol i dont know why, but i thought it was funny at the end of the clip it zoomed in on palp’s face. but in all seriousness, I’m not sure if it truly matters if switching the “i am all the sith, u are nothing, a scavenger girl is no match for the power in me”. The “I am a jedi” line seems fluid. Though is there any way to stretch out the “am a jedi” part? funny because taking out the word “all” makes the line feel shorter and the nuance diminishes slightly imo.

Haha, I’m glad you liked the close up; that was basically me just cracking myself up at 3:00am.

I just tried slowing down the line a little, and to my ear, it completely loses the already soft “a” sound. Weirdly, I just hear “am Jedi,” so I think we might be stuck at the original tempo. (If anyone else wants to try changing the speed, I can share the .wav once we get the clip locked in.)

Post
#1437236
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

jarbear said:

Omg can we not do spoilers. Literally waiting to get home to watch show and things are being spoiled/revealed on a non bad batch spoiler thread?

I don’t have many pet peeves, but this is one.

Why didn’t you drop everything in your life to watch it within 12 hours of its release, huh? Totally your fault.

(I’m with you, by the way. Maybe we can wait a day or two before mentioning spoilers?)

Post
#1437228
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

I think it’s really cool. The only potential yellow flag I have is that we don’t know where these characters are going to be by this point in the galaxy officially. Mando may die before now, something might happen to Boba in his show, etc. Hal’s usually pretty careful about disrupting canon in his edits, so there might be a worry with that.

Also, regarding the trailer music, I agree that emotionally, it fits the scene well - I was playing around with using it myself - but stylistically it doesn’t feel very “John Williams,” so that’s probably the cause for that concern. It would be like “Star Wars - rescored by Hans Zimmer.” Good music, but not what we’ve come to know as “Star Wars music.”

Post
#1437141
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Did a little more smoothing out on “I” and “am a.” Is it any better?

Also, maybe I’ve watched this clip too many times, but what if Palps says, “I am all the Sith. You are nothing. A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” Sade, you’re the expert - did we try it that way already? Would it make any significant difference to the scene?

Hell if I know.

https://streamable.com/81qs12

Post
#1436922
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Neerb said:

sherlockpotter said:

And I also agree with Burbin that it’s kind of fun, looking at the whole trilogy, to say “You’re just a scavenger.” “Not anymore, bitch. Now I’m a Jedi!”

If he were actually saying “you’re just a scavenger” I’d agree, but the way he says it is “a scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” That statement is more of a declaration rather than directly addressing Rey in conversation, and Rey’s response doesn’t address him directly either (as “Not anymore, bitch” would, lol). I just think that if I saw that ordering in the theater, I would think they accidentally cut a sentence out of the middle of the conversation.

It is less in-your-face than most of this script, I grant you. (MAZ: “Hey audience: Leia’s about to kill herself, in case you can’t pick up on context clues!”) But to me, it still works. It’s almost like Palpatine doesn’t care about her enough to give her much thought. “You’re just a scavenger. Look at how powerful I am. Focus on meeee!!” And Rey’s all like, “Excuse me (bitch), I am a Jedi. Maybe you’ll notice me when I LIGHTNING YOUR FACE!” It’s a bit more subtextual, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

As for her saying “No…,” I think following up “scavenger” or “nothing” with Rey saying “And…” doesn’t really make sense, because it means she’s not actually rejecting either of those things. If the final Palpatine line isn’t “sith,” something needs to be done about “And…,” whether it’s “No…” or something else.

I tried to address the “and” in my edit.

Post
#1436912
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Burbin said:

sherlockpotter said:

Cap is still helping me track down some more instances of Rey saying “I am” to help smooth over that transition (thank you, Cap!!); but in the meantime, I wanted to get back into the scene after stepping away from it for a bit. If it’s not 100% yet, that’s fine - hopefully we’ll be able to use some of the new clips - but for now, I have it with Sade’s Palpy dialogue rearrangement, the added Rey pant as before, and a new cut of “am a Jedi.” The big thing I’m curious about for this test: I also tweaked the video somewhat to see if I could fudge the lip sync at all, so I’d love feedback on that!

https://streamable.com/l4ugyw

I think it looks and sounds great!

I feel the pacing, the delivery and the ideas flow the best with this rearrangement of the dialogue. Basically he first tells her “You are nothing, I am everything”. Then to rub it in he calls her a scavenger.

If Palps last line was “I am all the Sith” then the only appropiate response for Rey would be “I’m all the Jedi”, basically countering “I have the power of all the Sith inside me” with “I have the power of all the Jedi who stand behind me”. But switching the last line to calling her a scavenger is brilliant because now it’s personal, it speaks to her own self-doubt, and now the appropiate response for Rey is to take the courage to call herself a Jedi.

Thanks, man!

If memory serves, Sade did put together a version that ended with the “You are nothing” line; but exactly as Burbin said, we felt that the pacing and flow of the dialogue was best with this version. Structurally, sure, “You are nothing.” “I am a Jedi.” It makes sense; but it just didn’t flow as well for whatever reason. And I also agree with Burbin that it’s kind of fun, looking at the whole trilogy, to say “You’re just a scavenger.” “Not anymore, bitch. Now I’m a Jedi!” It basically sums up Rey’s whole journey in two lines.


I’d be down for trying “No…I am a Jedi,” but we’d have to find a good instance of her saying the word. This scene has proven to be surprisingly difficult for getting Daisy’s tone to sound correct.

Post
#1436820
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Cap is still helping me track down some more instances of Rey saying “I am” to help smooth over that transition (thank you, Cap!!); but in the meantime, I wanted to get back into the scene after stepping away from it for a bit. If it’s not 100% yet, that’s fine - hopefully we’ll be able to use some of the new clips - but for now, I have it with Sade’s Palpy dialogue rearrangement, the added Rey pant as before, and a new cut of “am a Jedi.” The big thing I’m curious about for this test: I also tweaked the video somewhat to see if I could fudge the lip sync at all, so I’d love feedback on that!

https://streamable.com/l4ugyw

Post
#1436716
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Yeah, I’d also rather not have another planet-destroying weapon, especially when it’s so inconsequential to the actual plot. The other factor is that it’s not really “The First Order” that blows up Kijimi, it’s Palpatine. Palpatine’s behind it all.

But, hmm… I wonder if it were possible to edit it in such a way that the First Order kind of “bombs” the planet, but then cut away before the entire planet is destroyed. That could potentially be interesting; but I think I’d still rather just leave it out. There are enough explosions already.