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sherlockpotter

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12-Apr-2021
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Post
#1420930
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

It just feels like we have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make the line make sense. Lando was on a different planet! But then he was able to travel there immediately! But then he decides to hang back at his hideout and not help them anymore! And Leia knew about Lando, but she was only able to send him a recorded message! Live communications don’t work in this case because reasons! And Lando couldn’t send his own message just because! And Leia didn’t tell Rey that she was reaching out to Lando just because!

All of this is conjecture.

Like I said, if you want to keep it still, that’s fine. It’s five words of ADR, it’s really not worth all of this. We’ve taken a simple critique about tension building and turned it into a three page discussion on implied lore. Does headcannon really matter this much?

Post
#1420900
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

NeverarGreat said:

It gives me a certain sense of power realizing that I could probably propose changing just about any single line in this movie and watch the ensuing battle as people slowly realize all over again that thinking about the line for more than a minute shatters the illusion of the film’s world.

ZORII: Night raids are going to start soon. I’ll keep lookout.

Thinking about removing this, seems superfluous or something…

“Soon, raids are going to lookout. Keep night start. Maclunky”

Post
#1420896
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

jarbear said:

But regardless, I don’t care much about his “I got a call about you guys” … but the one that sticks out is Rey’s kinda strange “Tell that to her yourself” … kinda implying they don’t talk but we know they just did? Kinda seemed unnecessary.

Leia sent him a transmission, jarbear. It was not a Skype call, if you will. It was a prerecorded message. So he didn’t talk to her.

Um…that’s not how communications work in Star Wars though?

I’m not trying to prolong this debate - if it’s decided, it’s decided - but there’s been exactly two instances of a prerecorded message in any of these films: Leia’s to Obi-Wan (because she was about to be captured), and Luke’s to Jabba (because he was doing that to plant R2 at the palace). Pretty much every other time we’ve seen communications - Vader to his troops, Palps to Vader, Palps to Naboo, Obi-Wan to Anakin, Snoke to Kylo… - it’s all been real time messages.

So…after Rey left, I guess Leia recorded a message to Lando (“Help Rey, Lando; you’re her only hope.”), stored it in a droid, sent the droid off to [wherever] to find Lando, just to tell him that he needs to hurry his butt off to Pasaana in person, because he needs to tell Rey everything he discovered about Ochi? Why not just send him a real time message? Faster, easier, more reliable…and I still don’t get why Lando wouldn’t just send his own holo-communication to Rey after that if he wasn’t on-planet.

Or, because Leia knew that Lando had information about Pasaana, it stands to reason that Lando told her about it. (“Leia! I discovered a Sith Assassin who hunted folks out on Pasaana!” “Really, what’s his deal?” “Lol why would I tell you that?”) So why not just give Rey that information directly? Why involve Lando at all?

Whereas, if Lando finds them himself, it makes more sense that he would give them information that Leia didn’t know about. Hal, if your only hang up is Finn’s line, I think it would still work in context: “Are you with the Resistance? How did you find us [oh Resistance operative]?”

And I agree with Jarbear - the implication from Lando’s “Give her my love” is definitely that he and Leia haven’t spoken in a while. It loses a lot of the emotional weight if Lando says “Oh yeah, I just heard from her like half an hour ago lol.” (And if he’s not staying on Pasaana, can’t he just visit her? If not call her?) Plus, it’s kind of a meta line, because it’s saying that he misses Leia just as much as we miss real-life Carrie Fisher. Or else,…he just heard from her.

But again, if people don’t care about any of that, I won’t push it.

Post
#1420890
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

NeverarGreat said:

It gives me a certain sense of power realizing that I could probably propose changing just about any single line in this movie and watch the ensuing battle as people slowly realize all over again that thinking about the line for more than a minute shatters the illusion of the film’s world.

Do it, Nev. Let’s see what you come up with lol.

Post
#1420839
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

The line is so vague though…half the people here took it to mean that Leia contacted him because he was already on Pasaana, and the other half took it to mean that Leia told him to travel across the galaxy to give some exposition about Ochi, and then bugger off to do God knows what instead of helping the gang. If you remove the line, you can still believe whatever you like. Just like you do already. (And the canon answer is that he has been on Pasaana this whole time anyway. I don’t care about canon so much *cough* spice-runner *cough*, but I know that Hal does.)

And seriously, the movie is definitely trying to make Lando’s identity a dramatic reveal, right? Am I crazy? Let’s help them with that.

Post
#1420807
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Well, think of storytelling like a bell curve. The story should build to a peak, at which point the tension is released, and then we have a denouement. For this Lando scene, what’s the peak? What’s the moment at which the tension (i.e. the uncertainty of who this person is) is resolved? Is it when they walk into Lando’s cabin? Or is when they actually reveal that it’s Lando?

So yes, honestly, those few seconds make a hell of a lot of difference when trying to tell a story. With that line, the tension is released as soon as he tells us that he’s Leia’s friend. Oh, and by the way, it’s Lando. You cut the tension during the buildup of the tension. It’s just blatantly bad storytelling. It trips over itself and manages to undercut both the reveal that this person is trustworthy, and that it’s Lando.

Imagine if Obi-Wan appeared to Luke in Empire as he’s making his way through Cloud City, and tells Luke, “By the way, you’re related to Darth Vader.” Only a few seconds, but it would destroy the reveal, wouldn’t it?

Who cares that he killed a stormtrooper? DJ helped them escape prison in the last movie; did that make him trustworthy?

Again, it’s great that you’re trying to track the past twenty years of these character’s lives; but I personally think we should be trying to tell a good story here, not just string together a bunch of Star Wars imagery.

To respond to below:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I guess I dont really care about the specifics of filmmaking. All I care about is having the characters and lore make sense.

I would argue the tension is released when the stormtrooper is killed. Who the guy is after that shouldn’t keep the audience concerned.

The problem is, this is, first and foremost, a film. If we sacrifice basic storytelling constructs for the sake of Wookieepedia facts, then this turns into a dull, lifeless excuse for Star Wars fan service. But it’s not; it’s a story. Let’s treat it as such.

And if you honestly don’t think the film is “trying” to build to the Lando reveal, then I really don’t know what to tell you, bud.

Post
#1420805
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

But again, character motivation is shot in the foot in your *interpretation* too. You’d have Lando travel who knows how far just to find them in the nick of time, and then wander away after six lines of exposition rather than doing anything to actually help them on their quest? (More than just something that could be put in an email.)

EDIT: Put it this way, your focus is on handwaving something that may-or-may-not have happened over the past twenty years. I don’t care about that. Let’s focus on the story now, and what the characters are doing now. What works best for the story we’re actually trying to tell?

Post
#1420802
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Damn it, Jar Jar! I had finally convinced Hal to use one of my own ideas! Haha

The way I see it, if Lando went there exclusively to help Rey & Co., it wouldn’t make sense for him to immediately abandon them again as soon as he tells them about ye olde clown Ochi. Why wouldn’t he at least help them get to the ship? Distract the First Order? Anything?? Why’d he bother coming at all? Just send a holo-message to them on the Falcon and save yourself the trip. It’s dumb.

But more importantly - as I’ve said before - we also have to consider dramatic tension, not just what the Wiki says are the dry facts of the mission. (And the Wiki says he was already on Pasaana anyway, soo…aha?) It’s better storytelling if we don’t know whether or not to trust Crossbow Man until he reveals his identity. If he tells us, “It’s okay, I’m a friend of Leia’s!” Then there goes any sense of suspense. Oh, it’s just Lando…Great.

Besides, removing the line doesn’t mean Leia didn’t send him a text. It wouldn’t contradict anything in your headcannon; it would just make the storytelling more impactful.

Post
#1420786
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

Sure you could do all that, but if you draw even more attention to that problem people will wonder even more why the Falcon couldn’t just hover down to land like it does any other time. The SFX shot would have to convey that the blast hit a repulsorlift, making the Falcon lose altitude in that shot before limping out of the hangar.

Poe’s line about the landing gear and the shot of Rey opening a wire panel are both so brief that they’re hard to register, so when you see the image of the crash landing you’re kinda like “what?” Literally anything that would show it visually take damage would work.

Not only that, but those shots aren’t even the focus of the scene; the focus is on Rey, so it’s even more distracting. I think RogueLeader has a good idea - just comp in an extra explosion effect as they’re firing. There are a lot of places it could be added:

  • As they’re firing on the ship en masse
  • In the closeup shot of the Falcon’s engines
  • When Rey dives for the ramp
  • When the Falcon peels away

Maybe it could even be a large-ish explosion effect, as if someone fired a rocket launcher at the ship?

Also, I just noticed - The troopers are firing at the ship, they all get pushed backward and fall over from the Falcon’s exhaust, and then when Poe says, “Finn, move fast!” more troopers are firing on the Falcon from off screen. But then the very next shot shows that they’re all still knocked down and no one is firing. I can’t imagine we’d be able to fix that, but it’s another fun little continuity error.

Post
#1420726
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

DZ-330 said:

DominicCobb said:

I like the idea of adding connecting shots like that, but I think the transition with the wayfinder works really well as is.

Something I suggested earlier in this thread:

List of space/ships shots that could hopefully be made by someone with WAY more skills than me:

  • Space shot of Ochi’s ship approaching Kimji
  • Shot of Rey in Ren’s TIE leaving Endor
  • Shot of Rey in Ren’s TIE approaching Anch-To
  • Shot of the Falcon leaving Endor and approaching Ajan Kloss
  • Rey taking Luke’s X-Wing and leaving Anch-To in space
  • A tease of Vader’s TIE leaving Endor
  • The Falcon in space approaching Tatooine

Those would be really cool! Maybe even adding a few “ship landing” shots?

  • Kylo landing on Exegol
  • Falcon landing on Pasaana
  • Ochi’s ship landing on Kijimi
  • Kylo landing on Kijimi

I saw a review that pointed out how the rushed pacing isn’t helped by the lack of landings in the film - the ship approaches a planet, and the characters are immediately walking around in the next shot, halfway to their goal. Now I can’t unsee it.

Post
#1420586
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Finn’s line was already there. The only changes I made were cutting the Lando line and adding the Poe line. (I wasn’t sure about the latter, but I wanted to try to emphasize the uncertainty a little more. I did also tweak the volume levels to make “You with” more balanced against “The Resistance.”)

Sorry for the confusion with the trooper! I meant to cut that first part out of the timeline for this test, but…oh well.

EDIT: Same test, but only the relevant bits included. Sorry, everyone: https://streamable.com/sgsiln

Post
#1420574
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Oh shoot, I’m sorry, the bit with cutting out the trooper was just an old test I did (that was vetoed). I just used the same timeline since the clips were already set up.

The main thing I’m obsessing over suggesting now is after that, when they get to the hideout, just to cut out Lando’s ADR line that “Leia sent me a message.” I also tried it with inserting Poe’s line “You with the Resistance?” (Again, just to draw out the reveal of whether or not the guy can really be trusted.)

Post
#1420568
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Burbin said:

I think I see Hal’s intent with the new shot and I think it works. On the opening shot we see the TIEs are a ways off from the planet, so having an ‘establishing shot’, as I refered to it, of the surface allows some inferred time for the TIEs to actually reach the planet, then we can cut back to them. It’s a nice transition from ‘TIEs on space’ to ‘TIEs on the surface’, plus it’s a really pretty and striking shot that would be obscured with TIEs flying around.

Oh okay, yeah, I can see what you’re going for now. Although I’d personally still like some ship noises to fade in near the end of the shot to help bridge the shots together. (As if the ships are getting closer to the planet now.)

And Hal, like I said, my main intent wasn’t for tying up lose ends (although that’s an added benefit); I was going for a better sense of dramatic flow - save the reveal that he can be trusted until the reveal of who the character actually is. If you show him to be trustworthy, and then show that he’s Lando, I think that both reveals undercut one another, rather than compliment each other.

On the topic of dramatic flow, did anyone have any thoughts regarding my Rey Death Sequence restructure - having her die immediately after defeating Palpatine, and then saving her resurrection until after Finn and Jannah are rescued?

Post
#1420492
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

The problem is, he does just chill there. He basically says, “Good luck facing the First Order on your own! I’m too old to help, and my knee is acting up again.” If Leia asks him to help them, why doesn’t he help them get to the ship? He just slinks back off into the background. If he just steps in of his own accord, and only does so because he recognizes Chewie, I think that makes a lot more sense.

EDIT: Ooh, another issue with the “Transmission” line: “Give Leia my love.” “You should give it to her yourself.” “Oh hey, that’s a great idea! [Calls Leia back] Hey girl, I love you! Don’t die until I get there! Haha.”

Like I said before though, my biggest reason for cutting the line, from a storytelling perspective, is just to stretch out the tension until we reveal that it’s Lando. Otherwise, the tension is deflated as soon as we learn “Oh, he’s a friend of Leia’s? I guess we can trust him then… Oh, it’s Lando. That’s nice.”

Post
#1420488
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

DominicCobb said:

sherlockpotter said:

I mean, yeah, I still don’t understand why Luke abandoned him on Pasaana. But I don’t see how this line explains that? All this line tells us is that Leia and Lando are in communication, which just adds more layers of convolution, imo.

Like I said though, if we could flesh out the scene to give Lando some actual development, that would be swell; but that’s a separate issue from this one line.

There’s nothing in the film to suggest he’s been there the whole time. The transmission implies he headed over there when he heard they needed help.

Huh, that would make sense, but that wasn’t my takeaway at all. My impression was that Leia contacted Lando because he was there, not the other way around. Otherwise, where’s he been during this whole stupid war? Where was he in TLJ when the entire Resistance was established to be on the one cruiser? How does he already have a little hideout all set up, complete with getaway driver?

Plus, if he came to Pasaana just to help them, why does he immediately abandon them to find Ochi’s ship and escape the incoming stormtroopers on their own? He came to tell them, “There’s a ship nearby!” and wander off somewhere? They couldn’t do that via hologram message? (Wait, could we make Lando a hologram? No joke, that would clear this all up.)

I guess a different angle to take it would be to change his line to say something like, “Leia asked me to meet you here.” But…I don’t know. The context of the situation, with him saying immediately afterwards, “Oh no, I’m too old to fly off and help you guys”…why would he say that immediately after flying all of this way to help them? I think the scene implies that he’s already on the planet…for some dumb reason.

Here’s a quick example I put together: https://streamable.com/ypyjk6

EDIT: Regarding the opening, where did we stand on the Burbin version? Add the TIEs into the lava shot, go directly to the forest shot, and just have Vader’s castle in the background?

Post
#1420480
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I mean, yeah, I still don’t understand why Luke abandoned him on Pasaana. But I don’t see how this line explains that? All this line tells us is that Leia and Lando are in communication, which just adds more layers of convolution, imo.

Like I said though, if we could flesh out the scene to give Lando some actual development, that would be swell; but that’s a separate issue from this one line.

EDIT: Half-agree with Dom. I don’t think it should replace the forest shot, but I do think that it doesn’t flow well and should be cut if we’re not going to include the TIEs with the lava shot.

Post
#1420472
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

sidshady12 said:

Is there anything else though in the meantime to discuss, test shots, etc?

I did have two other changes I’ve been tossing around in my head:

  1. Slightly reconstructing Rey’s death. The original cut is a little awkward, I think - There’s a lot of “character is in danger, character is immediately saved” going on, which doesn’t leave much in the way of tension. I thought it might work a little better if we move Rey’s death to immediately after she defeats Palpy. Plus, this flows better conceptually, as it’s more apparent that the effort of facing Palpy killed her; unlike in the theatrical, where she pulls a Leia and just decides, “Whelp, guess now’s the most dramatically relevant time to die!”

It also means that the audience has to wait longer for her to be saved, which would help to raise the suspense of her revival. Plus, it gives a nice bittersweet undercurrent to Poe’s celebrations; and it also slows down the pacing a little bit more, effectively giving us a chance to “exhale” after Palpy is defeated, before we get to even more ship explosions. I’m thinking a fade to black on Rey’s body, a brief pause as the music cue rounds out, then come back in with Jannah and Finn blowing up the ship. Lando rescues them, then cut back to Rey, still lying on the ground. The shots of Finn reacting to her death could be moved to while Ben is holding her, so it’s like the two of them are mourning Rey together.

  1. Removing Lando’s line about “Leia sent me a transmission.” If we cut that line, it would increase the tension in that moment, as the audience wouldn’t know until he removes his mask if this weirdo with the crossbow can be trusted. There are also some really awkward implications to the line when you think about it, such as:
  • If Leia knew Lando was here, why didn’t she mention him to Rey & Co.?
  • If Lando is in communication with Leia, why hasn’t he been helping out in the war so far? What’s so important about this desert wasteland? Get off your butt, leave your retirement behind, and get involved! There’ll be plenty of pig people to pork when you get back!

(On that note, I wonder if it would be possible to tweak the scene to draw out the fact that Rey has to push him to come back, or that Lando is only just now learning that the First Order actually represents a significant threat beyond a few random stormtroopers. Some more pauses, a slightly tweaked music cue, a sigh of defeat…; it would mirror the larger idea that the galaxy is starting to be inspired again by Jedi like Luke and Rey.

But the scene is so rushed anyway, I doubt there’s enough there to make that work.)

If we need something to fill the gap from removing Lando’s line, we could add in Poe’s line “You with the Resistance?” from TFA.

Post
#1420426
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Atom-88 said:

This may seem like a really stupid question and maybe I have missed something along the way but here we go, Kylo is looking for the wayfinder on mustafar where Vader’s castle is also located right but wouldn’t you expect the wayfinder to be hidden in Vader’s castle and not out his back somewhere?.
I know it may seem like a bit of a stupid question but only just really thought of this lol.

I’m pretty sure MR is incorporating something like this in his edit.

Hal 9000 said:

I can add the TIE sound coming in softly at the tail end of the lava shot but I don’t want it to draw your attention.

I see the lava shot as similar to a shot in ROTS of an eruption (the one from the trailer). It’s super brief and may not be immediately connected to the location where the characters are. It just sets the environment very quickly.

To be perfectly honest, that eruption has always disoriented me, even as a kid watching Ep. III. It completely throws off my sense of geography. What just happened? Where is this happening? Where are the characters in relation to it? Is it nearby? Far away? What’s the connection? It just doesn’t make sense when trying to track the scene in my mind. I really don’t think that’s what we should be shooting for - we should do what’s most intelligible to the average audience member.

Like I said, the important thing about the sequence shouldn’t be “Oh look, there’s lava on this planet. That’s neat-o.” The focus should be on the ships flying down to the planet. The lava in the background just adds to the immersion.

Post
#1420366
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

The way I see it playing out in my head - the whole time, we’d be tracking the TIEs down to surface level. For those who think the shots feel disjointed, I think that would “tie” (pun intended) the three together; because yeah, if it’s a shot of the ships, a random shot of some lava, and then back to shots of the ships, I agree that feels awkward.

To put it another way, if I were Joe YouTube Critic watching this scene, I would be thinking, “Wait, what’s with the lava? How is that related to this castle thingy?” If we include the ships in the lava shot, then they become the connection. As far as the story itself is concerned, the point of the sequence isn’t “Lava!”; it’s the TIEs making their way down to the forest. Lava, castle…whatever landscape they fly over, it’s all window dressing.

The sound’s one part of that. Ideally, we would be able to comp in the fighters themselves. I also suggested earlier that it might look cool to just see their shadows flying over the surface of the planet, to imply that they’re still pretty high up at that point - and it would also help to make the shot more visually distinct from the other two flyovers, and therefore less “tedious”; but I’m not sure how the shadows will look in practice.

Post
#1420338
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Agree with Burbin, the shot before and the shot after have you focusing on the left of the frame, so this one should too. And like sidshady12 points out, the continuation of the trees makes more sense if it’s on the right of the frame, rather than the left.

I do really like the lava shot - it feels like the most definitive way of establishing “This is Mustafar” to me. I like Vader’s castle too, so I don’t have a strong preference which one (or both) is included. The only thing I feel strongly about is that the forest should should be there. It’s our main anchor into the Kylo Rampage shot.

EDIT: Nice job with the new coloring, Hal! The only thing that’s missing for me is the sound of the TIEs panning left to right across the audio channels. 😉

Post
#1420335
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

He also lied and spread false intel to the Rebels that Death Star 2.0 wasn’t operational. And then he started boasting to Luke that “I lied! We’re up and running! *pew pew pew*!”

Yeah, it would have to be new dialogue. Although I don’t know if any lines like that already exist.

EDIT: I guess, yeah, it doesn’t change the internal journey Rey goes on to renounce the Dark Side; but I feel like I’d still be a little disappointed, as an audience member, if I just watched all of that and then Palps was like, “Ha! Psych!” A good twist should recontextualize everything we’ve already seen, and I’m not sure that this one would.

Post
#1420277
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

nluckett said:

If I made some edits, whats the best way to share them?

I trimmed all the bits of Rey and Leia talking. Not only eliminating some odd performances, but also clarifying things (at least to me).

Now when Rey comes back from her training session it goes (Im paraphrasing)

  • Didnt finish the training course, got distracted
  • I know it looks like Im making excuses…
  • Leia looks at Rey
  • Rey hands back saber
  • from offscreen, “General” line comes in
  • Then Leia delivers her line “Dont tell me what things look like, tell me what they are.”
  • Then Leia walks off and Rey says “Yes master”
  • No lines about droids or being tired.
  • Nothing about earning the saber. Clearly Leia is the one holding onto the saber most of the time as Rey hands it back to her twice.

I also removed the entire sequence of Finn asking Rose if she wants to come. It’s established that she is accustomed to working behind pipes, not one to go running around blasting people. Felt unnecessary.

I trimmed the best I could the Nambi Gima scene so that right after Rey says “I’m Ray” she hears cannon blasts and turns away.

Trimmed out Rey and Finn being surprised Poe can hotwire. They’ve been running together for awhile now, they shouldn’t be surprised by this.

When the crew meets Zorii, I trimmed it down so Zorri doesnt say she likes Rey. Instead they have a stare down, then Rey extends her hand in friendship.

Added a flash of Chewy when Rey realizes he’s alive. She has visions all the time, felt like a more impactful way to show the audience instead of just telling.

Removed Ren talking about them being a Dyad. Now, Palpatine realizes it himself at the end. The puzzle of why the are so connected is held until the final climactic moment now.

When Jannah and Finn are talking, I cut it right after Finn says his code number and Jannah goes “you?!”. To me this hints that she had heard of him, like how Rose had heard of him in the previous movie.

Trimmed some of Mas Canadas lines about Leia to make it a little less on the nose.

Trimmed a little bit of Luke’s dialogue to Rey.

Probably a few other little things, but wondered if anyone wanted to watch and see if any of these would make it into a final cut. I didnt know how to get proper audio splits, so that was my biggest issue.

Those are really interesting ideas, I’d love to check them out! Most test clips are either uploaded to Vimeo or to Google Drive. I also use Streamable if I’m just mocking up something quickly and want to dump it somewhere without worrying about an account.

Post
#1420274
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Burbin said:

Even though I helped dim the castle lights, I’ve never been a fan of that castle shot, I agree that it’s slightly off in execution, but I’m also not a fan of it in principle. Because the castle is not really relevant to the sequence so I don’t think it should be highlighted front and center, MR’s castle in the background shot alone works far better imo just as a small cameo.

So I think the best sequence might be to only have the other two shots: TIEs flying towards red lava planet > Establishing shot of the planets surface, revealing a forest growing amidst the lava > The TIEs, now descended to the surface, fly over the forest > cut to Kylo on the surface of said forest.

Those are fair points, Burbin. Arguably, the most important thing about the castle is that it helps to re-establish this as Mustafar. Personally, when I think of the planet, I think of the lava flows from Ep. III, not the castle from RO.

I’d definitely be interested in Burbin’s implementation, using the Castle in the background as MR did. But I do still want some TIEs to be included in the lava shot. Either as a full fly-over or as a shadow.

I also think the color would have to change though to go directly from lava to forest, maybe make the lava scene a little brighter and less shadowy? Otherwise I think the difference in geography will be too jarring.