shanerjedi

I like the ROTJ makeup much better. ROTS' looked like a rush job.

brash_stryker said:

Ghost said:

And its totally unnecesary.  It would be pointless to change because SW is too mainstream.

Eh?

As for your comment about not symbolizing anything, what about Dooku's saber in certain edits? How can you say that doesn't make his character more ambiguous rather than a typical bad guy?

Turning all the prequel sabers blue (or blue and any other colour besides green) is the only way of preserving the impact Luke's saber had in ROTJ.

Well maybe you don't care about that as much as I do, but it was a great cinematic "Holy shit" moment for me anyway.

Changing them all to something other than green is essential if you have an edit where Dooku (and maybe qui gon seeing as he was a bit of a rogue too) and Luke are given Green sabers. That way Luke echoes the father of the rebel alliance, and you're uncertain how things will pan out, seeing as Dooku was killed for trying to do the right thing.

The way I see it, there's a few options:

1. Qui Gon, Dooku and Luke are the only ones with Green Sabers. The rest are all changed to blue.
2. Dooku and Luke are the only ones with green sabers.
3. Qui Gon and Luke are the only ones with Green Sabers. Dooku has something completely different e.g. purple, orange, yellow, etc.
4. Luke is the only one with a green saber in the whole saga. Everyone else has blue, except for Dooku who has one of the aforementioned "radical" colours.

I'm undecided which method I prefer. With Qui Gon keeping his green saber, there's a sense that the last hope for the order is lost come episode 2, when we see that the remainder of the order is dogmatic and uniform.

#3. :)

Cool timstuff.

Well one thing ROTJ needs is to come full circle. And having Luke go into the heart of the Empire and have Vader kill Palps would certainly send the imperials reeling.

You could even show a dirtier, more run down Coruscant to show the decay.

I have a grand compromise:

Start off Episode One with them having different colours to show their individuality. then have them become more stuffy and dogmatic in Ep 2 and 3 and then have all blue to show their loss of individuality.

Luke's green in ROTJ would then show a "return" to the glory days of the jedi order.

but then fans might ask: "where the **** did Luke get his green one at?

Give Qui-Gon a green one too. He's the one that paved the wy for Luke to eventually restore the order.

why have all blue? what difference does it make to the story?

Akwat Kbrana said:

The Emperor is dead and suddenly stormtroopers are crowd surfing on Coruscant amidst fireworks.

That stormtrooper wasn't crowd surfing; he was being thrashed by an angry mob sick and tired of Imperial repression! Do you really think lifting things from the Wizard of Oz will make for a more believable ending? Maybe rather than falling down the reactor shaft, the emperor can float away in a hot air balloon, and Luke goes home to Tatooine by clicking his ruby slippers together...

And why did Coruscant suddenly become a place of an uprising?

Are you suggesting that Luke could in fact escape the palace now that the masses have risen up?

THANK YOU.

Coruscant in ROTJ is plausible based on what's already shown in the SEs.

But Bingo, how does the saga end now?

The Emperor is dead and suddenly stormtroopers are crowd surfing on Coruscant amidst fireworks.

That makes even less sense than if Luke, a leader fo the rebellion, went into the heart of the Empire and killed the main baddie and the people went "ah crap. this is on e badass. okay, I give up. you win."

Such a bold move, the death of the Emperor and Vader, would be a double whammy that would cut the empire off at its core.

God, I just had a cool image. It's too bad we don't have footage of Luke hauling Vader around. You could take that footage and have him emerge from the palace with his father slumped on his shoulder and then have these huge crowds that have gathered stand aside as Luke carries his mortally wounded father to a shuttle.

Maybe many imperials would see Luke with Vader and immediately kneel before him? Basically saying, "youve won. Now you can be our new emperor."

Oh what could have been with a proper ROTJ.

Bingowings said:

doubleofive said:

shanerjedi said:

bingo wings

but Luke on his own escaping the Imperial Palace on the Imperial capital planet just doesn't make sense.

 

Wait, bingo wings, why are you saying Luke on Coruscant in the Imperial Palace wouldn't make sense(after the Emperor dies)?

I think he means that Luke, by himself, basically assassinates the leader of the Empire and his right hand man, then just walks out.

 On the nosey ;-)

You ever seen The Wizard of Oz?

What did the guards do to Dorothy?

bingo wings

but Luke on his own escaping the Imperial Palace on the Imperial capital planet just doesn't make sense.

Wait, bingo wings, why are you saying Luke on Coruscant in the Imperial Palace wouldn't make sense(after the Emperor dies)?

Bingowings said:

It's a shame the destruction of Centauri Prime in B5 is so primitive as it has some points of similarity.

Not all Naboo cities need to look exactly like Theed, they just need the general feel (not all European cities looked the same during WWII).

There may be some of the awful League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen film which could be re-used too. Venice looks very much like something you might see on Naboo.

Yeah, anything Italian.

And mattes could always enhance cityscapes once footage is found usable.

lol. Yeah part of me wonders if TPM is salvagable as a full length movie.

I still think it is but we'd need to beef up some of the plotting and storytelling.

and please can someone get rid of all those meetings in the middle?

Jedi meet: yada yada yada.

Palpatine and Amidala meet: yada yada yada

senate meets: yada yada yada

jedi meet again: yada yada yada

ovaltine and amidala meet again: yada yada yada

"weesa goin home!"

what if the TF wasn't blockading for some obscure reason but because Naboo is suspected of harbouring slave fugitives? Maybe some of the gungans are fugitives and they hide out in the sacred place while otah gunga is their original home?
the fugitives are hiding out and the organization formally known as the trade federation comes to get them back?

this could start a war or something and the jedi are sent to prevent it.

okay. so the crawl sets up this idea that the organization formally known as the trade federation and the republic are going to sign a treaty outlawing slavery in the outer rim(where the organization formally known as the TF presides).

Amidala is a big abolitionist(this would tie into the slavery theme with Anakin later on too).

So the TF suspects the Naboo are harbouring slave fugitives from the TF territory(an empire perhaps?).

Timstuff said:

In ROTJ, can we please get rid of all the shots where we see Ewok arrows going right through Stormtrooper armor? I know that the armor doesn't have a particularly good reputation for durability in the movies, but I always felt like seeing it punctured by arrows was way too much. Overall, I'd like to see the Imperials on Endor being much more of a threat, and the Ewoks' tactics against them being much less effective. In terms of believability, at best I see the Ewoks being a nuisance that acts as a diversion for the Rebel commandos, but not an actual threat to the imperial forces.

I agree with making the stormies(the "best troops") more of a threat and the initial ewok attack catching them by surprise, only to have the stormies counterattack and chase the ewoks into the forest

But I disagree with not having the ewoks be effective at the end. That would undermine the whole theme of technology losing out against the low-tech ewoks.

But what needs to happen is more tactical attacks by the ewoks once the stormies are deep in the forest. Like the ewoks expected them to chase them and then they go into the forest and all hell breaks loose as far as catapults, gliders, and rocks and slingshots.

Octorox said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

Yoda should of been in the PT, but he shouldn't of had the kind of screen time he had.  Yoda was the head of the Jedi Council, thats pretty important.

I see no reason why we need a digital Yoda in the OT.  If you think about it, why did Yoda need to be CG in the PT?  Cause of pointless duels.  He should of been the same freakin puppet from the OT when he was in the Temple. 

The idea of a CG Yoda was a good one, but CG isn't good enough yet. 

 

It is weird that we go from CG to puppet. Mabey someday, CG will take a huge leap and GL will put a consistent, real looking CG Yoda in all 5 movies. 

 

I know he's the head of the JC. But how does he impact the story? In other words, you couldn't take Padme, Kenobi, or Anakin out because they're tied directly to the storyline.

But Yoda? For the amount of screen time he has, his connection to the story is really weak.

I don't think they should of taken him out, I think they should have give him something more important to do.In TPM he served as a counter to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the training of Anakin but so did Windu. 

I just don't see a story purpose for half of the main "characters" in the PT.

mrbenja0618 said:

shanerjedi said:

mrbenja0618 said:

shanerjedi said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Has anyone tried using shots from the Chronicles of Riddick when the planet is under attack? It's sorta Nabooish.

Yeah but the cinematography is way different.

If you can even call it that. Seems like every shot is wide and sometimes slowly zooms in or out. I don't even think they are dollying a lot of the shots. Just boring, nothing going on shots... But then AOTC they randomly shift to a Saving Private Ryan doc style of shooting. So many inconsistencies I really don't think the Riddick footage could throw it off that much... Probably improve it.

I once thought something like Riddick's night attack on a SW city would've made a great prologue if you did something like Mandalores invading.

But it's also at night.

The problem is this:

So many things in TPM are mentioned but not shown with the Naboo. "My people suffer and die. The death toll is catastrophic, etc".

That RedMedia critique posted a few pages back didn't bring up anything not discussed in the previous 10 years of critiques. But it was a one-stop review covering most of the big problems with the film. It was great for that.

I remember in 1999 discussions on theforce.net about why early IG-88 droids weren't used instead of dump battle droids and why they spoke and sounded so silly when silent and deadly would've worked better, and on and on.

Why instead of Annie asking Qui-Gon about midis, he couldn't have asked about the Sith and who they were, etc.

I truly think the ultimate TPM edit is yet to be made.

 

 

That and confused matthew, who in my opinion has far more exhaustive list of problems... And he did it for all three prequels. http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Star-Wars-Episode-I%3A-The-Phantom-Menace.php

Yeah I watched confused matts reviews a few months ago. Funny stuff too. I don't agree with all his opinions(I loved the last Trek film) but he's always entertaining.

I'm looking forward to see what he says about Minority Report.

Plus he had the balls to rip 2001. That takes cajones(and I grudgingly agree with him on some of his points).

Darth Solo said:

Nice one Stewie....i mean  Jacen (Vorhees)

Man, i wish i had a big arsed monitor in the post. I got a tennis racket and watch.

I dont play tennis.

Well you can always air guitar. :p

Ghost said:

Yoda should of been in the PT, but he shouldn't of had the kind of screen time he had.  Yoda was the head of the Jedi Council, thats pretty important.

I see no reason why we need a digital Yoda in the OT.  If you think about it, why did Yoda need to be CG in the PT?  Cause of pointless duels.  He should of been the same freakin puppet from the OT when he was in the Temple. 

The idea of a CG Yoda was a good one, but CG isn't good enough yet. 

 

It is weird that we go from CG to puppet. Mabey someday, CG will take a huge leap and GL will put a consistent, real looking CG Yoda in all 5 movies. 

 

I know he's the head of the JC. But how does he impact the story? In other words, you couldn't take Padme, Kenobi, or Anakin out because they're tied directly to the storyline.

But Yoda? For the amount of screen time he has, his connection to the story is really weak.

Ghost said:

If that could be pulled off, that would be amazing.

It would eliminate alot of stupidness. 

 

Idea: I think the Gungan battle is rediculous.  It really should get taken out of the ending, it does nothing important and theres already too much going on at the end..

What if you take it out of the end, and use bits and pieces of it somehow in the beginning to show the raid on the city? Dont know if it would work.

Funny enough, Lucas' original revised rough draft script of TPM had an early battle where the Naboo militia went out onto the grass plains to meet the droid army and were quickly wiped out.

That would've established the droids right up front as a threat to be taken seriously.

I'm just not sure how if it could be done at all with existing footage.

I wonder if anyone remembers that taco-Bell commercial that had the 3 employees of taco bell, pizza hut, and KFC fighting the droids on the plains? Released around the time of TPM. That had additional footage of ground action on Naboo.

The jedi also take forever to get to Theed. Much of that stuff can be shortened.

This film is going to be a much bigger task than all three OT revisits combined IMHO.

mrbenja0618 said:

shanerjedi said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Has anyone tried using shots from the Chronicles of Riddick when the planet is under attack? It's sorta Nabooish.

Yeah but the cinematography is way different.

If you can even call it that. Seems like every shot is wide and sometimes slowly zooms in or out. I don't even think they are dollying a lot of the shots. Just boring, nothing going on shots... But then AOTC they randomly shift to a Saving Private Ryan doc style of shooting. So many inconsistencies I really don't think the Riddick footage could throw it off that much... Probably improve it.

I once thought something like Riddick's night attack on a SW city would've made a great prologue if you did something like Mandalores invading.

But it's also at night.

The problem is this:

So many things in TPM are mentioned but not shown with the Naboo. "My people suffer and die. The death toll is catastrophic, etc".

That RedMedia critique posted a few pages back didn't bring up anything not discussed in the previous 10 years of critiques. But it was a one-stop review covering most of the big problems with the film. It was great for that.

I remember in 1999 discussions on theforce.net about why early IG-88 droids weren't used instead of dump battle droids and why they spoke and sounded so silly when silent and deadly would've worked better, and on and on.

Why instead of Annie asking Qui-Gon about midis, he couldn't have asked about the Sith and who they were, etc.

I truly think the ultimate TPM edit is yet to be made.

mrbenja0618 said:

Has anyone tried using shots from the Chronicles of Riddick when the planet is under attack? It's sorta Nabooish.

Yeah but the cinematography is way different.

SilverKey said:

Bingowings, I like your idea of "reversing" the story of TPM, I think it would definitely make the story more to the point. I'm just not really sure it could be accomplished.

The main problem is that in the movie as it is, we care so little about the people of Naboo: we are being told they are suffering and dying, but we don't see it. The only thing we see of it, is through Queen Amidala's eyes, she is our only connection to the invasion. I think taking out that part of the movie would really hurt what little we care about the planet.

I also think that starting the movie on Coruscant would really bog the movie down in politics at too early a point.

I do think the idea is very interesting though, so could you elaborate on how you would have it work?

But we don't see the invasion. it is mentioned but never seen. So why even keep that stuff?

Put it in the crawl

Have Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon infiltrate the TF ship at the end during the space battle, have Anakin purposefully join the battle in space.

The Jedi/Maul duel will take place in the engine generator room on the TF ship.

Everyone keeps talking about how good the PT Yoda was.

Okay, ILM did a great job creating a great-looking character, but can someone tell me what Yoda's purpose was in the PT?

Anyone?

What purpose did Yoda serve the story of the PT?

NOTHING.

He didn't need to be there.

You could've replaced him with Master Sock Puppet and they wouldve had the same impact on the story.

The Golden Idol said:

teharri said:

Could you imagine those scenes with Luke with the cgi yoda from the PT. They would be pretty cool.

 

As I have stated before I am a continuity guy.

The PT should be OT-ized for continuity, not the other way around.

CG Yoda in ESB would take away from the movie.

I agree with Golden Idol 100% on this.

Stop trying to **** up the classic SW films!

The Prequels are NOT classics. So why the heck would you want the classics to be more like the lesser trilogy?

What adywan is doing is the perfect blend of practical and digital. It makes the scenes more effective and the puppet seem more alive. He's making the existing shots more character-oriented.

Here's the problem with "fixing" the PT. Many of the fixes require story changes, not mere vfx enhancements.

We need to look at ways to enhance the story visually.