shanerjedi

Think about it folks:

Here is Luke, now a jedi knight badass. He doesn't need a effing noisy-ass bike. In fact, he'd likely use his force powers to conceal his arrival until he gets right to the gate.

I mean, where is he supposed to park? In the dunes? On the path? At the door? Why? Why not just have him keep going and fly up through one of the windows like Harry Potter on a broomstick?

Better yet, why the hell didn't Ben have that bike in ANH when the sandpeople were out attacking Luke and stealing crap with his speeder? he was walking around with...wait for it...a hooded robe like some, oh I don't know, entrance into the film as a mysterious figure.

Add Ben on a speeder and have him give that dragon call and then have him swoop in do a CG backflip off the bike, and then whip out his saber and start taking out Tuskens.

Darth Venal said:

Shanerjedi:

I want a bellowing grunting tauntaun.

Me too! Me too! But I don't have a garden, nowhere for it to run. Damn.

Maybe the Tauntaun can chew off the stick robot when it asks what they want. Cool. And relevant.

Or just poop on it.

I've decided Luke should ride a tauntaun to Jabba's palace.

It's noisy and loud as hell when it grunts. Perfect for stealth getting to Jabba's lair.

But why?

Because I want a cool CG tauntaun scene as Luke approaches Jabba's hideout. It was a cool scene in ESB so why wouldn't it be for RotJ.

Who cares if, like the speeder bike, it's noisy as hell and would alert anyone within a mile of his arrival. I want a bellowing grunting tauntaun.

Venal

Like any tool, CG can be used effectively and it can be used unsuccessfully, but too many filmmakers have dumbed down to ONLY showing pretty CG stuff, at the expense of character, story and so on. Movies that use CG only to augment those essential qualities are welcome, those that don't are, for a lot of people, unwelcome. What good are beautiful images within a movie if all they are doing is wasting time? Beautiful CG I can appreciate, but when it's getting in the way of a story, I don't want to see it.

Spoken like many, MANY people in the fx industry.

Ghost said:

There is nothing wrong with CG ships.  That has come a long way and looks real now. 

 

And Yes, when I said move the conversation, that also means start Luke on Dagobah. 

Yeah, in the hands of experts they've come a long way. But the only expert here in fx is the person you just second-guessed.

Does everything need to be repeated? Anakin on a speeder bike in AOTC. Dooku on a bike in AOTC.Luke on a bike in ROTJ

Blah.

doubleofive said:

Updated the list with Bungowungo's new guys and a find of mine:

The repeated/cropped/alternate/flipped shots of RotJ vs ANH.  ANH has some other shots besides these, but they're not repeated.

RotJ has so much recycled footage even Al Gore would applaud it for using less carbon emissions to create new footage.

Darth Venal said:

Bingowings said:

Angel did a mockup and Dave did a video version.

This is very rough (as per, and hopefully someone else out there could do a better version) but along with the obvious light fiddles and replacing of the plain Janes with some aliens you may notice some badly cut and pasted generals of yesteryear in here.

I'm really too busy at the moment to do it properly but I thought the idea deserved a mention :

 

Is it me, or are Ackbar and the other Mon Calamari just being beamed down?

Hah! I was wondering what the heck that was. Maybe it's the spotlight as they're competing on Dancing with the Galactic Stars?

Darth Venal said:

Shanerjedi:

I think we should give him a BMX bike with off road tires. Then have him flying off the hills doing jumps on his arrival. That would be cool.

Forget this pathetic arrival of an ominous person walking alone in a dark cape and hood up to the palace. Ditch it. Add more FX!

For the love of - oh, I get it. :-)

Well, BMX's are a bit '80s and we run the risk of them fitting stylistically with the rest of the movie, so you'll have to come up with something else. How about a hoverboard? He could surf the dunes on his way down to Palace in a scene which is strikingly beautiful and dynamic and yet utterly dramatically redundant.

Hoverboard? Sure. Then the droid at the front gate can pop out with its eye, bang Luke on the head and shout "McFly! Hello McFly!"

Venal "He could surf the dunes on his way down to Palace in a scene which is strikingly beautiful and dynamic and yet utterly dramatically redundant."

lol! And isn't redundancy what it's all about? :p

Darth Venal said:

But why would Luke arrive on a speeder bike? He arrived in his X-wing, so why procure a speeder bike from somewhere which he didn't need. If the less-than-nimble droids can walk across a bit of desert, I'm sure a Jedi Knight can manage it.

I think we should give him a BMX bike with off road tires. Then have him flying off the hills doing jumps on his arrival. That would be cool.

Forget this pathetic arrival of an ominous person walking alone in a dark cape and hood up to the palace. Ditch it. Add more FX!

Darth Venal said:

Savage:

And it's actually capitalized, not capitalised. ;)

Actually, you're wrong again. It's either of the two, so there's no mistake. And in the UK the tendency is to use "s" not "z".

 Keep that Nazism in check, you fiend.

Yep. Modernisation. Mobilisation. Constipation.

Savage, by the way, center is actually spelt cenTRE. Hehehe. :p

Bingowings said:

TheBoost said:

I think a great way to make the Ewoks more fierce seeming would be the simple addition of a shot of a pile of empty, broken Stormtrooper armor, that Han looks over and sees as he's hanging upside down about to be cooked. It implies the Ewoks have been killing Imperials for a while, and makes them scarier.

Say I could score a few armor suits, and perhaps made a set of some sort to match the Ewok village.

How could I film these, and have that image be anywhere near the necessary quality to be seeminglessly inserted into ROTJ? I'm just a simple man.

 

 

 I just found this proving that outside our happy throng people have similar ideas :

I would just stick with a few, maybe one or two ideas(stormie helmet on trap, rusted out walker, etc) to bring the idea that a state of war exists. It's quick, makes the point, but doesn't belabor it.

Lucas has often been quoted as saying that the Endor battle was a chance to reflect Vietnam and create his own Apocalypse Now-lite battle.

If you remember the latter film, it had planes on fire in trees, burning munitions, etc. I think a burned out walker or some kinda symbol of the empire, maybe next to a burned out village, would drive that point home.

Darth Venal said:

The best edit of that I've scene so far actually worked because it removed Anakin's overwrought regret - "What have I done?". Without that line alone, it really does sell the whole thing better, and makes it seem less sudden, like he's been building up to it (which he had)

There's probably not a great deal else that can be done, but for me that simple edit alone made a massive difference. The regret line was completely antiproductive to Anakin's fall.

I loathe that line. He just went darkside and then he whines. :/

Whinakin Skywalker

doubleofive said:

 

Ric Olie said:

Ric Olie is all redundant, all the time.

Isn't that redundant in and of itself?

 

LOL!

Ahhh....laugh-o-matic here today.

Darth Venal said:

Was that Ten Numb?

We could definitely do with more women in these movies, even if the best we can do is background characters. It's odd enough that there is only one significant female role in the entire trilogy, plus Aunt Beru and Mon Mothma in much smaller parts, never mind that there are hardly any background females either. Weird. I know the Jedi were a bit of a boys-only club, but come on...

Maybe we just need to revoice Ackbar as a women. Could work. I get upper class English woman, the bossy type. Hattie Jacques. Give Ackbar a voice like that.

LOL!

By the way, yes it was Ten Numb. I think a lot of stuff can be found at T Bones Star Wars site. A lot of great treasures there.

There was also stuff with Madine aboard his own vessel flying around but that might be a little redundant with Lando already there. Maybe that was lucas' early attempt at a Ric Olie moment?

Definitely more chicks in space. I'm all for that. *Paging Pink Five*

TheBoost said:

I was reminicion about Rebel Assualt today, and started thinking. Could any elements from the full motion videos in Rebel Assault 2 be used to beef up the battle of Endor (Imdarr in the game, but identical to Endor in all respects) or the space battle above Endor. It has lots of shots of pilots in cockpits, and a rebel vs. Scoutrooper sequence on speederbikes.

It was CD-Rom video quality, so not perfect, but perhaps usable somehow. I need to find a copy as I haven't played it in 10 + years.

 

I loved that game. Interestingly enough, they did shoot a female rebel pilot for RotJ but cut it. There was a lot of space stuff they cut, including another sullustan in a B-Wing cockpit.

Darth Venal said:

 

Digital Yoda will inevitably replace the puppet in The Phantom Menace in a future re-release. I just hope they don't replace the wonderful puppetry in Empire and Jedi. At least the Jabba puppet in Jedi would probably be too expensive and too difficult to replace completely with CG, so I think that's safe for the most part.

They already did that for TPM. I just didn't know they were showing it in public.

As for replacing the puppetry in the OT, I can only say that right now Lucas won't do that, and the current animation team at ILM will leave before they do that.

Well, if everyone here *loved* everything about the SW films we wouldn't be here would we? Negative force can sometimes be a catalyst for positive force.

;)

Darth Venal said:

DuTwan:

the force was a mystical energy that could be wielded by anyone with the right training, the force was stronger with some families.

Well that sort of contradicts the point you're making.

There's a simple question: Why is the Force stronger with some families, as Return of the Jedi establishes?

Answer given in the prequels: It's genetic.

Again, I don't like the writing in the PT at all, but I don't see why a genetic quality is such a bad thing with regards to Force sensitivity. I think Lucas wrote it very badly, but perhaps that, coupled with all the genetic manipulation/cloning stuff going on was his way of making the PT relevant in some way.

I agree with that. But still, the midis didn't really add anything or answer questions needing to be answered. They merely created more and then sorta dropped out for two films with a bit of a mention in ROTS.

Darth Solo said:

Possative response yet again....

Yavin is a bit of a none identity planet, and thats why the rebels may have been drawn to it in the first place. Its a big solar sytem out there with a lot of planets with a lot of moons, but i hate the revisiting of Tatooine constantly throughout the saga.

You need to stop pestering specific members of these forums. It doesn't do any bit of good and only fosters animosity.

So let Venal state his opinion and state yours.

rpvee said:

shanerjedi said:

But you are right. We may never see them just like we may never see the CG Yoda for TPM ILM did years ago.

 Actually, more clips of that are on the way via Star Wars in Concert.

Really? I didn't know they were using that.

Trust me on this: they are not rotting away in a vault. They are in the Lucasfilm archives in a temperature and humidity controlled room.

But you are right. We may never see them just like we may never see the CG Yoda for TPM ILM did years ago.

TheBoost said:

RoccondilRinon said:

As just as staunch an atheist, I think you're rather missing the point. It's fiction, more to the point it's fantasy, and the Force is one of the most archetypal fantasy elements in there. It loses a LOT of its character if you reduce it to some technobabble that doesn't actually explain anything. Either explain how these midichlorians enable telekinesis, telepathy, precognition and what-have-you, which would take a whole movie in itself, or don't try to handwave it away and instead embrace its fantastic nature.

 Replace the word 'midichlorians' in the PT with 'fairiy-elf powder' and it readily becomes apparent that it's not biology or science or any attempt at a real kind of explanation. The existence of midichlorians really only serves a plot point so they could do a "force-test" on Anakin's blood. 

It's not technobabble becase knowledge or non-knowledge of the midichlorians has no bearing on the plot or character actions. Anakin never breaks into a lab and takes a syringe full of midichlorians to become more badass, and R2 never reverse the polarity of the midichlorians in order to save the day.

But see in the OT the Jedi and Sith could just sense, through the Force, if someone is powerful. They didn't need to get ER on us and run a analysis of someone's cell count.

TMBTM said:

Actualy I never thought the midichlorians are said to BE the Force, they just help the people to be somehow conected to the Force. That's the way they are described in TPM.

The Force itself is not explained by the existence of midichlorians.

That's right. But just as well we don't need to know how people connect to the Force. We only need to know that they do and it exists.

RoccondilRinon said:

As just as staunch an atheist, I think you're rather missing the point. It's fiction, more to the point it's fantasy, and the Force is one of the most archetypal fantasy elements in there. It loses a LOT of its character if you reduce it to some technobabble that doesn't actually explain anything. Either explain how these midichlorians enable telekinesis, telepathy, precognition and what-have-you, which would take a whole movie in itself, or don't try to handwave it away and instead embrace its fantastic nature.

God you atheists are such grouches. :p

Oops, did I say God? :D

Bingowings said:

It's important to remember that the only Ady exculisve threads are the ones he started, many of the ideas on here or on other threads may not appeal to him and may appeal to other people.

The sandstorm scene only really exists as a few frames in an early trailer and few still images.

There may be more footage stuck in the Lucasfilm vaults so how much was filmed and remains is a bit of a mystery but that's all we have to play with.

Back in 1999 I wondered if the inclusion of the rather undramatic sandstorm scenes in TPM were originally going to be a revival of the idea (George likes to recycle ideas for one film in the others).

I can't see how it could be done with so little visual and no audio elements to play with.

Similarly the cave scene was never filmed.

There is a matte painting and a bit of a music cue but that's all.

SSWR's placing of Ben's ghost in the desert or my idea of sticking him in his hut carries some of the idea over but that's as close as I think we could get with the materials available.

Welcome The Concierge, your idea is interesting I'm not sure how to work it in to ROTJ, could Padme become a Force ghost when Mace couldn't? It could be a dying dream of Anakin but that might get in the way of the pacing of those crucially fast paced scenes.

I'll have a think about how it might be done.

That's not entirely accurate. Daniel's himself confirmed that his portion was completed at least. Hamill's we dont know. And I'm sorry but you don't create a fx storyboard for the optical department in Jan. of '83(mere months before release) and create a matte painting, expensive, without having completed some live action elements. And you certainly don't score it with music.