shanerjedi

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Haha! Ah geez. You know what I meant by Greeks. Storytelling! :p

 

 

Yeah I did, but I couldn't resist. :-)

You know, we sing the praises of of explorers and scientists and all the great minds in our history, but no-one ever mentions the guy who discovered that the conclusion of a story should go at the end. I mean, the guy deserves some recognition, no?

lol.

ESB is such a great looking fantasy film.

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Haha! Ah geez. You know what I meant by Greeks. Storytelling! :p

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Venal, that's a great picture of Darth Underused.

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

Ok. I'm going to ask you a question:

Why does every single battle have to be unbelievable? Seriously, do you realize that if every battle in the films was unbelievable, they would NOT be unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

TV's Frink said:

What I meant was, when is Fett in ANH?

He means those things called the Special Editions.

But how was he bad ass in the ANH:SE?

All he did was walk up next to Jabba and STAND. And then he walked off and looked at the camera. I expected Lucas to add a CG helmet so it could wink at us.

Ghost said:

Oh yah, I forgot about that.  I did read that 2 times and even showed it to other people.

I'm not thinking right now.

 

About the 005 page, are you guys for the Boba Fett changes? (the having him take the plans to the rebels).  It could work. I don't know how you would make the new scenes.  It would take him out of the SB battle, therefore shortning it.  How would you kill him off, the Falcon? 

This was Bingos idea. If this were late '82 and I worked for LFL at the time then yes, I'd definitely push for it.

But Fett's role should stay largely as is. We should just try to beef up the danger his character poses. I hate that he shoots at Luke on the skiff and misses. Heck, just have him aim. He should be a spot-on shooter. Having him miss more than once makes him too weak. And that's also how his death comes off. Maybe have the Sarlaac have to drag his ass into its maw? He won't go easily in other words.

So my position is to enhance his existing role with fixes and small stuff that will beef up his character.

Bingowings said:

I think it was the scary Lord Of The Dance that was being referred to which would make Vader's entrance more like this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqmGWf21IE8

Yes, Bingo has the right Lord of the Dance. It was a dance troupe started by Michael Flatley who can from the Irish dance troupe Riverdance.

And that link is LOL!

Octorox said:

Darth Venal said:

Ghost said:

Sometimes you need to break from the story a little bit to make the overall movie better to watch. 

Christ, are you joking? If there is one, single cardinal rule of film-making, it is that you never, ever break from the story. Everything else is secondary. Everything, be it some fantastic scene that you really want to keep, or a great FX sequence. If they don't contribute to the plot, they have to go. If you don't get that, don't waste time trying to do anything with movies.

Do you know why people got bored with the fights and battles in the prequels? Because they wasted time showing us "pretty stuff to watch" when they should have been advancing the story. Yes, you can have duels and battles. But they should serve their function to the plot and nothing more.

 

Correct, one, single cardinal rule of Hollywood filmmaking. If you're talking about a 3 act narrative structure yes. If you're talking about an episodic structure, no. Ever heard of Italian neorealism? It tends to "waste time" on small everyday events that often don't have anything to do with the narrative, but allow the characters to breathe and reflect their reality, as if they were you and I. Also, when a film has a very deep message, it is usually a good idea to force some long takes to give the audience a chance to reflect on what they just saw.

You're also completely throwing experimental or non-narrative structure out of the window.

 

Sorry, I'll shut up now. I believe you are in the industry and I'm a lowly first year film student so I probably don't know what I'm talking about...but yeah I would say in a Star Wars film you wouldn't want long breaks from the narrative.

This isn't art-house cinema. This isn't Dinner with Andre. This is traditional narrative film making. So Venal and Bingo are correct in pointing out the importance of set-up,conflict, and resolution.

Bingowings said:

Yeah, the same Anakin who is almost 30 years older and burnt to a crisp and stomping around in an iron lung on robot legs.

Besides the PT acrobatics of the Jedi need to be toned down to match the OT.

If Ben can't do cartwheels fighting Vader in ANH, Dooku and Palpatine can't either.

The Jedi/Sith Hong Kong Circus has to go (at least they really do those moves and aren't fake looking CGI).

If Lucas was doing the OT now he would have Vader doing the splits in mid air like Leroy off Fame.

LOL!

Ghost said:

Still, he doesn't look like a Jedi.  It is a consistency issue.  And yes, Luke was that good because he defeated Vader later in the movie.  You guys would say that Luke in ROTJ is about the same as Anakin in AOTC.  Right?  Yoda is the best in the business, Luke should be close by then.  He was trained a little from Obi-Wan to.

 

It shouldn't be about how good Luke was guys, the battle is lame compared to every other battle in these movies.  We should see more in space rather than a dragged out SB battle.  It should be harder for Lando to even get in the DS.  Ani and Obi in ROTS didn't just fly into Greivous's ship.  There is more to show in space and less to see on the SB.

 

Listen, these movies bring up plot and story points that need resolution. That's a key to storytelling. And this is Jabba. A baddie we've heard about in the preceding two films. So he's been set up and then you want to ditch him for what? More fx and battles in space? Sorry but the pacing of this whole battle scene is just fine.

fishmanlee said:

well i tried using this but it seems too quiet (plus its PT): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co9wuNtnr7Y
its "Anakin Is Free"

Okay, I will say that works better during the pyre. But then, it's the same old crap again. Sinister dark music for a victory celebration. Bleh.

But, if you wanted to, you could take the part right up to the pan up from the pyre and then segue into the existing score.

But for me. I love the existing pyre music. It's classic.

TheBoost said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

doubleofive said:

Does anyone think that Vader's entrance in the Hoth battle is weak?  He comes out of nowhere.

Why the hell should Vader need an "entrance" in that scene? He's already taking part in the sequence of events, it's not like he's a surprise appearance. Sheesh, who comes up with these ideas?

 

As for the "he needs a better entrance" idea, he already has an entrance and it's called the first of the movie. That's what an ENTRANCE is. And nothing will surpass his first appearance in ANH anyway. But his coming into the base on Hoth is actually bad ass with those snowtroopers and he stalks in like he's in a rush. It's cool as is.

 

 No no no.

What Vader needs is a GOOD entrance. I reccomend that the camera shoots one of Hoth's ice-walls, which then explodes outward. As the dust settles, we see an extreme closeup of Vader's glove, which ignites his lightsaber,  as the camera tracks backwards, several more explosions happen until finally we see a long shot of Vader, when suddenly two pillars of flame erupt out of the ground behind him before he starts walking forward. As he takes his first step, six previously unseen Imperial Officers flank him, and they all suddenly die from Force Choking, collapsing in front of him like a macabre red-carpet.

That would be a good entrance.

 

 

Yeah, and it would be called Star Wars-Lord of the Dance.

JasonN said:

shanerjedi said:

ROTFLMAO!

Venal it's a fan edit called Twilight of the Old Republic. Hahaha! That was funny.

Actually, my edit of Episode 2 is called Twilight of the Republic - the title of one of my older SW edits (which combined Episodes 1-3 into a single film) was Shadows of the Old Republic.

Yeah I know. But I threw old in there because I knew youd get your panties in a bunch over it. :p

fishmanlee said:

more prequel music in ROTJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93tK8UzW-vE

Nah. Too martial. It should be more peaceful and serene. Your clip brings to mind battles and armies. Doesn't fit.

Darth Venal said:

JasonN said:

shanerjedi said:

Here's the dialogue for The Lost 20 scene I was talking about yesterday:

Obi-Wan stares at the bust of Count Dooku.

Jocasta Nu: He has a powerful face doesn't he? He was one of the most brilliant jedi I have had the privilege of knowing.

Obi-Wan: I never understood why he quit. Only twenty jedi have ever left the order.

Jocasta Nu: The Lost 20. Count Dooku was the most recent and the most painful. No one likes to talk about it. His leaving was a great loss to the order.

Obi-Wan: What happened?

Jocasta Nu: Well, Count Dooku was always a bit out of step with the decisions of the council. Much like your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

Obi-Wan: really?

Jocasta Nu: Oh yes. They were alike in many ways. Very individual thinkers and idealists. he was always striving to become a more powerful jedi. he wanted to be the best. With a lightsaber, in the old style of fencing, he had no match. His knowledge of the force was....unique. In the end, I think he left because he lost faith in the republic. He believed that politics were corrupt, and he felt the jedi betrayed themselves by serving the politicians. He always had very high expectations of government. He disappeared for nine or ten years, then just showed up recently as the head of the separatist movement.

Obi-Wan: It's very interesting. I'm not sure I completely understand.

Jocasta Nu: Well I'm sure you didn't call me over here for a history lesson. Are you having a problem, Master Kenobi?

 

I bold that last line because that's in the released cut at the start of the archives scene. But they shot the whole scene entirely, including all the dialogue I wrote. Now, this is a perfect setup for a "rogue" Dooku.

Yes, we need more of Ewan McGregor's stiffly delivered exposition and more of the slightly excited stuff from the old bird who used to be in Neighbours.

I jest, but as much as this would support any efforts to "develop" Dooku's character, I can't help hearing more of that clunky exposition and stilted acting.

God, I would sooooo kill to have that footage to add to my Twilight edit...

What the hell has this scene got to do with vampires?

ROTFLMAO!

Venal it's a fan edit called Twilight of the Old Republic. Hahaha! That was funny.

Hey, he used to be "THE COUNT" in the old Hammer films so this would be a tie in!!!!! It's would be a tie in to vampire movies!!! His appearance in Twilight would be for vampire continuity for all vampire movies!!!! Put him in the Twilight movie!

Okay, I'm full of shit. :P

Darth Venal said:

doubleofive said:

Darth Lars said:

Ghost said:

Does anyone think that Vader's entrance in the Hoth battle is weak?  He comes out of nowhere.

I agree to a bit. I think this was discussed very briefly a long time ago in this thread, or in the "wish list" thread. One suggestion, as I remember it was that there would be a shot where the AT-ATs were followed by a landing shuttle or star destroyer emerging from the cloudy sky. (or is it just in my head?)

We did discuss it on one of the threads, but any addition would destroy the pacing and is really unnecessary, much like the "how did Vader get back to his Star Destroyer, show us his ship landing George!" scene in the SE.

What he said. Ibid.

Why the hell should Vader need an "entrance" in that scene? He's already taking part in the sequence of events, it's not like he's a surprise appearance. Sheesh, who comes up with these ideas?

His name is Mr. Lucas and he attempted to set the redundancy record for most consecutive ship landing platform shots in a movie trilogy for all-time in the prequels. I swear to the energy field surrounding all living things there is a sequence in Revenge of the Sith that goes from one ship landing scene to a scene that also ends in a ship landing scene.

As for the "he needs a better entrance" idea, he already has an entrance and it's called the first of the movie. That's what an ENTRANCE is. And nothing will surpass his first appearance in ANH anyway. But his coming into the base on Hoth is actually bad ass with those snowtroopers and he stalks in like he's in a rush. It's cool as is.

TheBoost said:

shanerjedi said:

Here's the dialogue for The Lost 20 scene I was talking about yesterday:

Obi-Wan stares at the bust of Count Dooku.

Jocasta Nu: He has a powerful face doesn't he? He was one of the most brilliant jedi I have had the privilege of knowing.

Obi-Wan: I never understood why he quit. Only twenty jedi have ever left the order.

Jocasta Nu: The Lost 20. Count Dooku was the most recent and the most painful. No one likes to talk about it. His leaving was a great loss to the order.

Obi-Wan: What happened?

Jocasta Nu: Well, Count Dooku was always a bit out of step with the decisions of the council. Much like your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

Obi-Wan: really?

Jocasta Nu: Oh yes. They were alike in many ways. Very individual thinkers and idealists. he was always striving to become a more powerful jedi. he wanted to be the best. With a lightsaber, in the old style of fencing, he had no match. His knowledge of the force was....unique. In the end, I think he left because he lost faith in the republic. He believed that politics were corrupt, and he felt the jedi betrayed themselves by serving the politicians. He always had very high expectations of government. He disappeared for nine or ten years, then just showed up recently as the head of the separatist movement.

Obi-Wan: It's very interesting. I'm not sure I completely understand.

Jocasta Nu: Well I'm sure you didn't call me over here for a history lesson. Are you having a problem, Master Kenobi?

 

 Man, that seen would have added layers of depth, meaning, and interest to the film. No wonder Lucas cut it.

lol

Darth Venal said:

God, more clunking exposition. Might as well just stick it in the crawl.

Hey, it beats another JC meeting!

Here's the dialogue for The Lost 20 scene I was talking about yesterday:

Obi-Wan stares at the bust of Count Dooku.

Jocasta Nu: He has a powerful face doesn't he? He was one of the most brilliant jedi I have had the privilege of knowing.

Obi-Wan: I never understood why he quit. Only twenty jedi have ever left the order.

Jocasta Nu: The Lost 20. Count Dooku was the most recent and the most painful. No one likes to talk about it. His leaving was a great loss to the order.

Obi-Wan: What happened?

Jocasta Nu: Well, Count Dooku was always a bit out of step with the decisions of the council. Much like your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

Obi-Wan: really?

Jocasta Nu: Oh yes. They were alike in many ways. Very individual thinkers and idealists. he was always striving to become a more powerful jedi. he wanted to be the best. With a lightsaber, in the old style of fencing, he had no match. His knowledge of the force was....unique. In the end, I think he left because he lost faith in the republic. He believed that politics were corrupt, and he felt the jedi betrayed themselves by serving the politicians. He always had very high expectations of government. He disappeared for nine or ten years, then just showed up recently as the head of the separatist movement.

Obi-Wan: It's very interesting. I'm not sure I completely understand.

Jocasta Nu: Well I'm sure you didn't call me over here for a history lesson. Are you having a problem, Master Kenobi?

I bold that last line because that's in the released cut at the start of the archives scene. But they shot the whole scene entirely, including all the dialogue I wrote. Now, this is a perfect setup for a "rogue" Dooku.

TheBoost said:

Ghost said:

 I also hate how the whole thing takes place in one little area. I wish there was a way to change the story around and make it more epic.  Not just on a Sail Barge.

 

 It's an escape from the sail barge. What more do you want? Random starfighters, a herd of rancors, dueling sarlacs and a one armed Wampa back for revenge with its own rival sail barge?

Sshhh! Don't give anyone any ideas! :p

That post was funny as shit TheBoost

rpvee said:

vaderios said:

rpvee said:

Is anyone going to add slash-burn-things to Jabba's guards in ROTJ, when Luke fights them on the barge?  After seeing what a saber does against flesh very well when Vader destroys the Separatists on Mustafar in ROTS, I think those effects should be added to ROTJ.  To see a burning sword hit the guards, and they just fall, is not very convincing.

right

-Anger

 Yeah, just like that!!!  It looks much more realistic that way... well, as realistic as a lightsaber slashing through an alien can be. haha

My favorite part of those shots are the backgrounds Angel did. Forget the slash. The main improvement is the background.

JasonN said:

shanerjedi said:

mrbenja0618 said:

Yeah, where are people finding these deleted scenes? Are there more that weren't on the DVD?

The scene was about the Lost 20 and went into description about Dooku's character. They shot it but it was cut. And yes, there are many scenes from all 3 prequels that were shot but cut that have yet to see the light of day.

Oh, I think I remember reading about that scene in the "Secret History of Star Wars" - it's the one which reveals that Dooku was one of the only Jedi to ever leave the Order, right? Yeah, that would've been a great scene for my Twilight of the Republic edit.

Yes, it goes into Jocasta telling Obi-Wan how Dooku was like his own Master Qui-Gon, a political idealist. I tell you, that would help the "Jedi gone rogue" approach immensely.

mrbenja0618 said:

Yeah, where are people finding these deleted scenes? Are there more that weren't on the DVD?

The scene was about the Lost 20 and went into description about Dooku's character. They shot it but it was cut. And yes, there are many scenes from all 3 prequels that were shot but cut that have yet to see the light of day.

JasonN said:

shanerjedi said:

When was this?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/SW-ATTACK-OF-THE-FEDERATION-TWILIGHT-OF-THE-REPUBLIC-THE-BLACK-KNIGHT-RISES-DVD-5-DVD-9-VERSIONS-NOW-AVAILABLE/topic/10114/

Thx. If you had the Jocasta Nu deleted scenes with Obi-Wan, that would go a long way to strengthening that version of the Dooku character.