screams in the void

as well as others ideas

oojason said:

screams in the void said:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

For some reason , I am unable to see that article on reddit at that link . Sounded interesting from the comments . Was it removed , or is there a back up link ? or conversely , could you post the text of the article here ?

Hiya screams 😃 My apologies - I should have also said this too… click on a space where the text should be - and it will all appear.

I’m not sure if it to do with the text being a little lengthy - or an old spoiler code or something - but clicking on it should work, mate. 👍
 

It worked , thank you . It was an interesting read . I also found it peculiar that George’s sequel treatments that have recently come to light ,if true , would have heavily used ideas from the conception of NJO ,while at the same time , cribbing heavily from the old EU and placing characters out of their original time and context , like Darth Talon etc .

for most of the past year , my main way of watching them has been either the 92 VHS letterbox versions or the full screen "faces " Vhs set , all on CRT televisions linked together with a soundbar hooked up to one , computer speakers to the other with a long aux cord running to the back of the room from those computer speakers, and going to either my Sony boombox ,or , lately , a portable speaker . I created my own thrifty little surround sound system and have gotten a lot of enjoyment from watching this way .

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

For some reason , I am unable to see that article on reddit at that link . Sounded interesting from the comments . Was it removed , or is there a back up link ? or conversely , could you post the text of the article here ?

Servii said:

screams in the void said:

Yeah , the Legends/canon debate never really bothered me as I remember when the original Marvel comics were kind of dismissed in the 90s and not considered worthy of " Canon " status , and then a decade or so later , they were incorporated into the EU novels and comics etc . Plus , you have the fact that though George didn’t see the EU material as part of his universe , he still often cherry picked from it , from the prequels to the clone wars and even to his sequel trilogy treatments . Which is what the current iteration of Lucasfilm under Disney has been doing a lot of as well .So I see that as relevant to this threads title . I have been making the point ,often ,as well , that the legends material is still in print and yes , a lot of it is even being re issued with newly commissioned cover art .A lot of people act like those stories were wiped from existence when that is clearly not the case .The way I see it ,with everything out there , anyone is free to follow one or the other or even mix and match to suit their tastes where it fits . There’s something for everyone and I will never complain about it . I just read/watch what I like and ignore the rest . I remember the dark times , from about 1986 to 1991 when there was hardly any Star Wars material available .

That’s a good way of approaching it. Star Wars is like a buffet. You enjoy what you like and leave the rest for others. It’s not really worth it to get caught up in which stories are canon or not, since they’re all works of fiction, anyway. The old EU’s “softer” approach to canon, with the different tiers and all that, was more supportive of that “buffet” mindset, since you could take or leave individual stories based on what you preferred. Disney canon is more monolithic by comparison, though that may be starting to change now with stuff like Visions and the KOTOR remake.

yup , it is like a buffet , and with the current canon , I also take or leave individual stories based on what I prefer ,as I do with the old EU .

Merry Christmas to you as well !

Yeah , the Legends/canon debate never really bothered me as I remember when the original Marvel comics were kind of dismissed in the 90s and not considered worthy of " Canon " status , and then a decade or so later , they were incorporated into the EU novels and comics etc . Plus , you have the fact that though George didn’t see the EU material as part of his universe , he still often cherry picked from it , from the prequels to the clone wars and even to his sequel trilogy treatments . Which is what the current iteration of Lucasfilm under Disney has been doing a lot of as well .So I see that as relevant to this threads title . I have been making the point ,often ,as well , that the legends material is still in print and yes , a lot of it is even being re issued with newly commissioned cover art .A lot of people act like those stories were wiped from existence when that is clearly not the case .The way I see it ,with everything out there , anyone is free to follow one or the other or even mix and match to suit their tastes where it fits . There’s something for everyone and I will never complain about it . I just read/watch what I like and ignore the rest . I remember the dark times , from about 1986 to 1991 when there was hardly any Star Wars material available .

I’m not much of a gamer , but I gave this trailer a watch , and I’m having flashbacks …I think I already saw this and it was called Dune 2021 . Baron Harkonnen , is that you coming out of the oil ? My,my , you slimmed down quickly !

yup , and Mcquarrie’s signature is visible on each piece in the first post . I have the Hoth playset , found it at an antique store on my birthday a couple years ago . I also got the Joe Jhonston concept AT-AT micro machine at the same antique store over 10 years ago and have them both displayed on a shelf .

ion

^ My VHS copy of the fullscreen ESB has the blue lasers as well , I have always wondered about this , even asked about it in these forums several times over the years .Restoration glitch seems the most likely to me …not much info on it out there though .

Awesome and entertaining .informative thread . Thank you ! I recently started jumping back into the old and Legends EU and some of those links are very helpful as I want to revisit The New Jedi Order series and beyond ,but don’t want to make a 20 book commitment and more , so it points to the essential books which provide the core story .I read NJO up to Balance Point when they first came out ,but life got in the way after that and I just got the bullet points from the rest from Wookieepedia etc for the rest of the legends eu .

Anakin Starkiller said:

I think the Resistance attacking the capitol would’ve aged poorly after the Capitol Riots on January 6th here in the US.

Nah, that would’ve been hilarious.

^ and why do you think it would have been hilarious ?

Ok , I’ll bite …I loved TFA and still do , for me ,a lot of it boils down to Rey’s introduction as a scavenger on Jakku struggling to survive , while feeling isolated , alone and abandoned and asking why …wanting connection . It’s the same thing that made me identify with Starlord in Guardians Of The Galaxy…many friends and family members of mine have passed on and I feel those same pangs . Whatever perceived flaws some have of her are far outweighed for me personally by the things I just mentioned .This thread will be cathartic for some though I’m sure .The only thing I would change on TFA would be some of the Earth based modern humor and colloquialisms

I loved TLJ even more ,though I didn’t really care for parts of the Canto Bight sequence ,like the arrest of Fin and Rose for illegal parking , I thought that was too goofy as was the hillbilly sounding alien that called for their arrest I also thought their escape on the Fathiers felt more like something out of Fantastic Beasts from the Harry Potter universe and didn’t really feel like Star Wars . ( Nothing against Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts , I enjoyed them , but they’re a , uh , different animal altogether . ) I think the whole sequence could use a trim .The only real good thing that came out of the sequence IMO was setting up Broom boy and reinforcing the idea that anyone can be a Force user and it doesn’t have to be about blood lines . The Rise Of Skywalker flipped on this ,I will let others debate on the logistics of that . Even though I enjoyed some aspects of TROS , It’s a fun popcorn movie that I just kinda shut my brain off when I watch , but that’s about it .

For my own Head cannon , It kind of ends with The Last Jedi for me . It has an open ending and one can assume from what transpired , that the galaxy will be inspired by Luke’s actions and be emboldened to rise up …Kinda what I thought TROS would do when I first heard the title .I could even see a fan editor putting in an after credits scene as a coda , using all of the Ships led by Lando flying in from Tros , with the triumphant John Williams SW theme . The end .

Personally , I think Treverrow’s Duel Of The Fates script would have been the way to go for Episode 9 and I enjoyed reading it as well as seeing all the concept art for it and the fan comic and audio drama that were made from it . It also addresses a lot of issues I have heard some fans talk about , such as Fin actually starting and following through with a Stormtrooper uprising . The biggest plus for me is Rose having a substantial role in it and actively being a participant . The biggest issue with TROS for me was how she got sidelined to the other characters ,especially after all Kelly Marie Tran (Trần Loan ) went through . And yeah , I know she addressed this , but I still thought she deserved better . John Boyega too .

That’s all I can think of right now , suffice to say , I like what I like and feel no reason to argue over it . Experience has taught me that I’m not going to sway anyone who doesn’t want to be swayed . Art is subjective …in the words of the Dude , " It’s just like , my opinion man " , or conversely , " That’s just like , your opinion man "

It fluctuates for me over time . Here are my current rankings of the live action films

The Empire Strikes Back ( This one never changes and will always be my #1 )
Star Wars
Return Of The Jedi
Rogue One
The Last Jedi
The Force Awakens
Solo
The Phantom Menace
Revenge Of The Sith
Attack Of The Clones
The Rise Of Skywalker

I can envision some of Anakin’s dialogue in this scenario …" How can we call ourselves the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy , when we turn a blind eye to some of those injustices ?"

Of course , when I initially made this thread , I was thinking in terms as if it were before the prequels came out , but If one has to fit them in , I think this is a good way to approach it .

I was looking through the young adult " Legends " novel called The Rise And Fall of Darth Vader by Ryder Windham a while ago and on page 67 , there is this passage …Anakin -( his thoughts ) " Why won’t they help me free my mother ? It’s not fair ! It’s not right !

Countless times Obi-Wan explained that every Jedi had to obey the directives of the Jedi council , and could never use the Force for selfish purposes. He argued Anakin to consider how freeing one slave on Tatooine might lead to the deaths of others , as some slavers might prefer to destroy their " property " than release them from bondage . The Jedi also had to answer to the Galactic Senate , and for the time being , the Senate had little interest in anything that happened on Tatooine ’

Why do the Jedi have to answer to anybody ? Anakin wondered

I think that would have made a perfect jumping off point for Anakin to argue the matter further .Obi-Wan’s rebuttal in that passage doesn’t acknowledge Anakin’s childhood statement to Qui-Gon , (of which Obi -Wan was not there for )" I had a dream I was a Jedi , I came back here and freed ALL the slaves "

One question I have in all this is , beyond Obi-Wan’s statement , what would be the Jedi Council’s initial dismissal/answer to Anakin’s concern ? Perhaps the Clone Wars erupt during this scenario and take priority over it ?

Mocata said:

From what’s actually shown in the movies I always assumed Anakin enjoyed being aggressive to win battles. He would have naturally grown impatient with the Jedi teachers and taken the easier path. It’s a far more human response to their doctrine. Instead of all that “I need the secret to preventing death” nonsense. The only part that makes any real sense is his anger against the Tusken Raiders. But it falls down because we don’t ever see how that anger gives him more strength, and there are no repercussions. Where is the fallout or his anger towards Obi-wan and the council for letting this happen, or letting the slave trade continue? What does he learn from the experience, did he enjoy killing or see how rage is a powerful ally? It’s basically forgotten instead of being a genuine part of his character development.

^ good points ! Letting the slave trade continue on the part of the Jedi and Anakin’s anger over it could have been great character development ,especially if he expressed his feelings to them towards it beforehand and they dismissed him out of hand and he felt gas lighted as result . What happened subsequently with his Mother and the Tuskens would have made his fall to the dark side, the perfect impetuous for it . He would have been more easily taken in by Dooku’s views , more sympathetic to Qui Gon’s defiance of the council , and Palpatine would have had the perfect route to manipulate Anakin’s conflicted emotions for his own gain and cement the process . I think this is the best reply to my post so far and would make for a great prequel re write .

It would not surprise me if Luke at the end of season 2 of The Mandalorian was actually a clone , sent by Thrawn to kidnap Grogu . It would be a perfect Thrawn thing to do . Would also go a long way for me in explaining why something looked " off’ about Luke’s appearance . Maybe the wonky CGI was intentional and the hiring of that fan vfx artist is a smoke screen ?

Darth Maul- " Fear , fear is my ally ."

Lord Humungous _ " Bitch , Please !"

Stardust1138 said:

My apologies! I only just now caught that you said original Tron. There’s also a Blade Runner spinner in The Phantom Menace after the original Blade Runner used the Falcon as a building design. It’s pretty cool discovering inspirations, easter eggs, and references.

^ No worries . And it is cool finding that kind of stuff , like E.T. in The Phantom Menace , The droids and club Obi Wan in Raiders Of The Lost Ark and Temple Of Doom , The Ark on the walls of Jabba’s barge etc .

^ I caught that in reference to Tron Legacy and always wondered about it , but it was the original Tron movie from 1982 where I noticed these things that I mentioned in my last post and how Attack Of The Clones was probably taking inspiration from Tron 82 .Both the original Tron movie and Attack Of The Clones came long before Rinzler’s making of Star Wars books .

I was watching the original Tron movie yesterday and noticed that the solar sail in that movie bears a lot of similarities to Dooku’s Solar Sail in Attack Of The Clones …In Tron , the solar sail also passes by some towers that have a very similar design to structures seen in AOTC on Kamino . The similarities make me think this was intentional inspiration that influenced episode 2 .

I just watched Saving Private Ryan on the setup that I mentioned above . The VHS copy I have says it is stereo surround , and while I don’t have a surround sound decoder , and the speaker sources I am using are on a desk in front of me ,as well as a countertop slightly above me , the sound was phenomenal and panned a lot from speaker to speaker with various effects and the tank scenes near the end had a lot of rumbling bass , almost sounding like it was behind me or in the room at times ! So far , this is the best sounding movie I have heard on my current setup .

I think he was right in the context of the original unaltered trilogy , before the prequels , back when it was widely believed by a lot of authors that the Clone Wars took place 35 years before the original film .

to answer the question of whether art is objective or subjective , I seek the answer to the question , What is art ? It’s a philosophical question I have pondered my whole life .