screams in the void

Jay said:

Chewielewis said:

DrDre said:

Yes, except for the fact that Anakin went through a decade of Jedi training, and still failed to become the Jedi, he was supposed to be. The prequels put the entire concept of believing in prophesies in doubt, and reinforce the idea, that allways in motion is the future.

Sure, but like Rey he was pretty gifted when we first met him.

I think there is a question that people aren’t asking, which is “What exactly is Jedi training”. I don’t think Jedi training is about moving rocks or lightsaber technique. I think Jedi training is more about indoctrination. The Jedi are a religion, and like most religions, you have to start them young so they understand the world they way you need them to, because Jedi in the Jedi Order are basically celebate monks. Thats why the council rejected Anakin, too old to indoctrinate, and they were right. The jedi don’t spend 10 years learning how to fight and move rocks. Their lessons are basically learning about the force and how to understand it better, but understand it the way the Jedi want them to.

You could also say that things like moving rocks or deflecting laser bolts are pretty much the Jedi traning 101, in EpII we see kids deflecting blaster bolts, they probably can lift brooms as well with not much traning. Anakin didn’t need training to use his force powers to Fly Pods. Luke didn’t get much training to learn how to grab his saber and to use the force to blow up the death star.

Some good points about Jedi training and indoctrination, and I agree with you to a certain extent. However, everything we saw in the first six films indicates that guidance and meditation are required in order to maximize a Jedi’s powers and fully exploit the Force.

The extent of Anakin’s emergent powers in TPM is his ability to see into the future and anticipate things, and only to the point that it makes him appear to have superhuman reflexes. That’s it.

The extent of Luke’s powers in ANH are a few minutes against a remote where he “reaches out” and senses it, and the trench run where he’s told to “let go” and allow the Force to guide him while targeting the exhaust port. That’s all we got from Luke in his first go-round. He didn’t blow up the Death Star with the Force.

In TLJ, Rey successfully controls a trooper’s mind and holds her own in a lightsaber duel against a much more powerful, albeit injured, opponent, despite never having used a lightsaber before.

Lukes training in Degoba wasn’t about lifting rocks, he could do that without much of an issue, but to understand why he could lift rocks. What he needed to learn about the force and how it connects to the universe.

Luke failed to extract his X-Wing from the swamp and didn’t complete his training, and while he demonstrated some impressive maneuvers in his fight with his father, Vader toyed with him until he got his hand cut off and was forced to surrender. Whether that was a function of a lack of combat training or lack of proper meditation—probably both—he wasn’t adequately prepared.

After receiving a few lessons, Rey assaulted her teacher and got the drop on him with a lightsaber, then fought Snoke’s guards alongside Kylo and lifted a bunch of boulders like they weren’t even there, thus saving the day.

Is Rey faster and more powerful than Luke and Anakin? sure, but I don’t see this being without precident.

Not without precedent, but without training?

Rey gets her trainig the same way you teach a child to swim, throw them in the deep end. Kylo’s probing of her mind taught her how to fight back, which taught her how to influence that storm troopers mind. She’s as powerful as the narrative needs her to be. It would have been nice for her to stay longer on the island, sure but I think she gets everything she needs to know for the narrative.

This is the crux of the problem. She’s not a character with an arc; she’s floating along and being handed her abilities by the universe in order to suit the narrative. No work, no progression, no setbacks, no loss. It’s a boring hero’s journey.

He didn’t blow up the Death Star with the Force ? Did we see the same movie ?!..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuKqcfO31is

lol ! good one ! or he has been out dancing amongst the stars …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOUW-sALp4s

that looks fantastic ! I am pleased to see you will be using the Story of The Empire Strikes back lp as a source , Waaaay back in 2007 user Movealong was kind enough to send me a dvd of his project that synched the movie to the Lp with stills and transitions and I was able to hear some of those audio differences for the first time , such as when Han is being lowered into the Carbon Freeze and Vader says , “Begin !”

Mark is a fantastic performer ! I would love to hear him do a duet with Billie Dee Williams !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqNXVQds4rc Splinter Of The Mind’s eye review .

yup , and this fan edit has become my go to version of the prequels for watching the saga in Machete order . I like it on it’s own as well .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1AcBBpjkDg The Man Behind The Mask does awesome edits too .

yotsuya said:

And this is juicy… found it just now - https://movieweb.com/star-wars-9-richard-e-grant-grand-admiral-thrawn/

They state hot and steamy rumor in the article . hot and steamy ? like a pile of Shite ? and I love thrawn as much as the next guy , but why does this new incarnation of him have the Mcdonald’s golden arches on his forehead ? Still , I think it would be cool to see Thrawn in live action , and for some reason , I always thought James Bond era Pierce Brosnan would have been perfect for the role .

I have to agree , the public announcement of the cast on the official site is not a spoiler .

I have a few guesses as to where he might have put it , but I will keep it to myself.

according to the official site , that was indeed the Falcon in Revenge Of The Sith…https://www.starwars.com/databank/millennium-falcon and a relevant article explains the “plot hole” in Solo…https://screenrant.com/solo-explains-away-revenge-sith-easter-egg-problem/

I am glad to see Mark Hamill return and am guessing he will be a force ghost after all . Perhaps he will finish Rey’s training from beyond .

TLJ was not the first time Luke force projected himself …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNkeCX4m_hM&index=5&list=PLlKJO4D2BftX2tFV2z-i_29EcdugVh0pr about the 16 minute mark

my edit to the OP for further clarification …#standagainst https://www.deviantart.com/screamsinthevoid/art/Stand-Against-748884934?ga_submit_new=10%3A1528516751 " Being a toxic fan is when you’re insulting and berating and harassing the people making the movies or the people that like them." Folks , these are the exact people I speak to in making this topic , Kelly Marie Tran , Ahmed Best ,Jake Lloyd, Daisy Ridley, etc. . I understand that some people genuinely do not like the direction of the new films,or the decisions of those making them , and have some ligitimate criticisms,but this is not the place to heir those concerns , you probably SHOULD start your own topic to express your views and if you are of a mind to take a stand and stick up for the aforementioned people making the movies and the people that like them that ARE being harrassed, then this is the place for it .and to be clear on the intentions of this thread , if you have something supportive to say , this is the place , if not , take it elsewhere or start your own topic . I think I have done my part to be as clear as I can .

here are a few articles and links that address the issues that this thread is about …https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-44708983 https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/5/17429196/kelly-marie-tran-instagram-deleted-harassment-star-wars-rose-last-jedi http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars/18828/star-wars’-jake-lloyd-on-how-the-phantom-menace-ended-his-acting-career http://thenerdybird.com/daisy-ridley-harassed-off-instagram-political-opinion/ and to be clear on the intentions of this thread , if you have something supportive to say , this is the place , if not , take it elsewhere or start your own topic . I think I have done my part to be as clear as I can .

and the lightning makes sense to me given the nature of the force as an energy field generated by all living things that can be felt all around one , the rocks , the trees , even between the land , and the ship …

awesome , I loved this movie and this will look good on my shelf with all of the previous films also looking forward to seeing that extended battle of Mimban deleted scene as I loved Splinter Of The Minds Eye and seeing that planet on screen finally

^ That was pretty cool , I like the feel of it and am interested in seeing the whole movie edited in this style . feels more in line with the OT in colors and tone to me .

Star Wars and Rush ? Hells yeah !..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iaW_iGFeSI

oojason said:

DrDre said:

Apparently the analogies I used, are too far out there, so I’ll leave those for another time, and place.

However, in the vein of my original argument, is toxicity a one way street? Are only those that harshly criticize LFM, Disney, the films, and the characters toxic? Is “toxic” the new “sexist”, to be labeled on anyone with a strong negative opinion of the current canon?

No, it isn’t. Though this has already been answered, yes?

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Kellythatsit said:

These people deserve to be called out as the abhorrent jerks they are. Seriously, this is a series of fictional films! People are sending death threats and behaving like absolute nobs just because someone made a star war they didn’t like, or wrote a story they felt was boring, or were a bit confused by all the long words they used.

It’s time these “fans” chilled the **** out and realised their sense of entitlement doesn’t give them the right to troll and abuse people whose only “crime” was to try to make something others would enjoy. It sickens me to see Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran forced to close down their Instagram accounts because idiots think it’s their right to post hateful dribble at them when they post a photo, just because they were in Star Wars.

Meanwhile shows like RFR and Geeks and Gamers pander their self important drivel to these dregs of the community in a wholly transparent attempt to get more subscriptions and likes.

Well said mate ✊

I disagree with the latter part. Once you start conflating critical platforms such as RFR and Geeks and Gamers with toxic fandom and the like, you’re on a very slippery slope. Similar tactics were used against many liberals in the cold war. Suddenly, everyone who’s on the opposite side is at best potentially a commie/toxic, or at worst guilty by association.

That’s ok that you don’t agree. For many they aren’t considered critical platforms - they are considered toxic. Some may think they are a little of both or varying degrees of. That people enjoy them and like them is up to them - personally I think they’re toxic.

I also like to think many of the people on here, and SW fandom in large, can differentiate between genuine, balanced, legitimate, or informative criticisms of a film(s) - and alternative views therein - and the type of toxic content often found on those and similar platforms (as well as a lack of genuine, balanced, legitimate, or informative criticism on them). Though again, if people like them, or believe they do the find above in those platforms, or aren’t interested in those things… then fair play - it’s up to them.
 

If I want to see shite like this…

(^ the cover used by Geeks and Gamers for their ‘The Last Jedi - Disney Basically Admits That Rey is a Mary Sue’ video (Disney didn’t ‘admit’ anything))

… and numerous articles on Kathleen Kennedy perceivingly ‘failing’, or doing something ‘wrong’, or not to their liking, or have words put in her mouth… I’ll know where to go. Until then I stay away from the toxic shite like that - and can get what I consider to more quality, balanced insight and actual factual-based criticism elsewhere.

Just my two-penneth.
 

… And I tire easily of circular repetitive conversations where one side of the ‘debate’ can’t remember, or doesn’t acknowledge, questions which have already been addressed and answered, all just a few hours before.
 

Edit - apologies, this was posted before seeing screams in the void’s last post.
 

It’s all good man .

and moviefreakmind said , " Being a toxic fan is when you’re insulting and berating and harassing the people making the movies or the people that like them." Folks , these are the exact people I speak to in making this topic , Kelly Marie Tran , Ahmed Best etc . I understand that some people genuinely do not like the direction of the new films or the decisions of those making them , but this is not the place to heir those concerns , you probably SHOULD start your own topic to express your views and if you are of a mind to take a stand and stick up for the aforementioned people making the movies and the people that like them that ARE being harrassed, then this is the place for it .

Jay said:

LordZerome1080 said:

This whole conversation is so awkward to watch. Thanks Ojason for ending it. In terms of the topic at hand I suggest appointing some sort of representative of this site to do a you tube video detailing the more positive aspects of our cause.

Seeing as opinions vary among the moderators themselves on what qualifies as “toxic”, our official position is that we have no official position. I don’t even know if everyone here could agree on what would constitute an adequate official release of the original trilogy, let alone anything remotely political.

I’ll also take this opportunity to remind everyone that when moderators post content, they’re posting as themselves and not as representatives of the site. We’re individuals with our own thoughts and views.

As OP, oojason has the right to drive the discussion in the direction he sees fit, just as any of you do within your own topics. If you think “toxic fandom” is overblown and you want to discuss that, create a new topic and go to town.

Edit: I was mistaken about oojason being the OP. It’s up to screams in the void to decide what’s on topic or not.

and I agree with Jay here , although I do think the title of moderator implies one is always a representative of the site . I understand you are human and have your own views though .

this warms my heart…https://nerdist.com/star-wars-rose-tico-support-cosplay-comic-con/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=Nerdist&utm_content=STAR WARS Showed Their Love for Rose Tico at Comic-Con

OutboundFlight said:

Star Wars is at its peak now. You can hook up a VHS and play the classic original trilogy on your tv. You can read the Thrawn books and play the old games. You don’t have to consider the PT or ST canon, and everything will be the same. The only thing that’s changed over time is the amount of content fans can enjoy. It’s up to the fans to choose whether they like and wish to acknowledge said content or not.

By going on and on about how much one hates TLJ, one only reminds themselves of their hatred and can never move on. If ya don’t like, consider it fan fiction and forget it existed.

This is the most sensible post I have seen in a looong time.

I am happy to see this as I followed the show from the beginning and watched every episode , There were some hits and misses , but over all , I loved it . It actually showed Obi-Wan and Anakin as the good friends they were hinted at in the OT . It also felt a lot like the old Marvel Comic series to me .I just hope I do not have to get a Disney streaming subscription to see it . Does every damn show need its own streaming service now ? If that is the case , it will suck to wait but I imagine it will make its way to blu ray like Rebels did .If they do not do away with physical media all together soon .Damnit .

Handman said:

You may find yourself…

how did I get here ?