penguinofgreatness

For Empire, just use ABC's and DJ's fantastic Imperial Edition Isolated score. It's lossless and sounds amazing.

I better get the old bluray (with actual grain) before the new one becomes more common. Or does the new set only use the new transfer for the 3D version?

EDIT: I just read that the new set uses the old transfer for the 2D version and you can't even play the 3D version without a 3D setup. I am happy. One film spared from Universal's meddling.

TServo2049 said:

Wasn't the 2011 Blu transfer cropped too? I've seen a comparison where the LD has more info on the top and sides:

Though apparently, the first pressings of the LD were ALSO cropped on all 4 sides, and it was called out by Video Watchdog. I believe that was what exposed "zoomboxing" to videophiles?

Lots of film transfers are zoomed differently, but its not really a big deal as the filmmakers frame their shots to account for this. (They want to make sure the film will project well no mater how the theater is set up.)

ray_afraid said:

It's also supposed to connect to the moment in AOTC when boba fett hits his head. I think George wanted it to look like an intentional thing that was cloned into the troops. Lame.

George is full of himself.

Yeah. The original version left you to think of what the Wampa looked like. We had only seen a face arm shot, and a little later a shot of the face and chest covered by the arms. Only about 35% of the full thing. I don't ever remember seeing any shots of the Wampa on any poster, or books. So it was a mystery until the SE came out.

Joke recognition fail.

And the new wampa shots were not needed and ruined the suspense and mystery of the scene.

This change is very interesting compared to the rest of the SE. First, they had originally planed to fully show the wampa in ESB, but they scraped the footage because the suit looked fake. 2nd, compared to every other SE shot, the new effects look ok and blend with the "look" of the movie. This is one of the few big changes that doesn't want to make me scream when I see it. However, ultimately the change does screw with the suspense of the shot and it works better when you can't see the wampa. Ady's edit should totally have the original editing to the scene but show the full wampa after his arm is cut off. Does anyone know what he plans to do with that shot?

CatBus said:

There's definitely a sound that coincides with the trooper hitting his head on the 77 stereo/surround mix, as those are the only ones I really listen to.  The sound isn't really that different from the footstep noises though, so it may well be a well-timed footstep I'm hearing instead of a head bonk.  Either way, I don't see the need to add a different sound there.  Why should an armored head hitting a hard door sound much different than an armored foot hitting a hard floor?

I just listened to it and I think you are right. The film has audio for the head hitting. I think I always assumed that sound was the crackle of a comm-link.

I believe the rational for the new sound was that a "boink" is what armor would sound like when hitting metal rather then the sound of plastic crackling against the set. The new sound is ultimately pointless.

I don't have the "rises" bluray, but it sounded ok in theaters.

For the 2011 version they intentionally made it cheesy for some reason:

An interim crow sounds was first tried before Burtt arrived and recorded Wood and Acord in the parking lot behind the tech building. " He sourced it from Dave and me yelling", Wood says. "We screamed and screamed. I was trying to model mine off this terrible cheesy element that i love from a Disneyland ride, The Haunted Mansion. : ah, ah, ahooooaah!"

Ultimately, Burtt blended the screams- with Acord starting the scream and Wood ending the scream. "It sounds like some kind of weird animal but coming from a human, "says Wood

Christ. I just listened to it and the 2004 version. I had forgotten how bad the SE's are as I haven't watched them in a couple of years. Bad memories are flowing back.

The Nolan films do have their original mix on the Blurays. Even if the container format (DTS, Dolby) has changed, the mix will remain the same. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe they just ported over the theatrical mixes. They sound good.

The Nerd said:

Just to make sure, I mean the shot that show the speeder going from front to back screen. Up to the part with the the SE droid dropping the pipe. The pipe dropping droid and one is a big no-no, but the improved speeder shot is an improvement.

I still don't like the change. The original FX shot is a bit dirty, but the new shot looks fake in a different way (I hate obvious digital effects, especially in a film made in 1977. It looks like a made for TV movie or a PS2 game.) Plus the shot you are referring to has the new CG wamp-rats, which are a distracting element imo.

CatBus said:

And that's really what's wrong with much of the changes--even when they do manage to improve the look of a particular part of the shot, they often screw up other aspects of the shot, or mess with the pacing so badly that the whole thing falls apart.  Unfortunately, aside from the credit for JEJ, I truly believe the best case scenario for SE changes is when they failed to make the film worse.  Making it better isn't really in the cards.  It's the editing that made the originals great, and it's the editing in particular where the SE's always fall apart.

SO much this. The Jedi Rocks segment is the worst. Even if it didn't have horrible throwup CGI, is comes out of nowhere and completely screws up any sense of pacing the scene had before. SE either screws up the editing and look of a scene or the change is unnecessary and pointless. (Like the corridor extension, the recomposites or the new matte paintings. These changes are interesting, but they don't change the artistic impact of the scene.)

CatBus said:

The clunk sound added when the Stormtrooper hits his head was just great. I never noticed that a trooper hit his head before (with or without the sound). My old piano teacher pointed it out to me.

There was always a noise when the stormtrooper hit his head, more of a crack than a clunk.  Maybe they made it louder.

Ben Burt added a noise in the '93 laserdisc mix. All the SE mixes also have an added noise. As far as I know there was no sound before that, as most scenes with stormtrooper armor had all their sound done in post because the armor made too much noise.

The only change that was for the better was the new music at the end of ROTJ. I think it ties up the film more satisfyingly. And I still like the original music. Everything else is pointless or utter crap.

I was under the impression the the "new" colors on the FOTR EE Bluray were a  mistake made during mastering. This makes sense as the other 2 films were untouched. Until they make a new Bluray I would just watch the dvd or use You_Too's color script.

jero32 said:

4 options

1.) color timing on dvd/wowow is the original timing, doesn't seem like thats completely true though. When wowow transfer was made, minor tweaks to timing were made.

2.) Dvd was incorrect but used as a source for timing the new transfer anyway. Minor tweaks were made.

3.) A colder bulb was used for the transfer, and they didn't take this into acount

4.) a "creative decision" was made with the dvd that raiders should match the other 2 movies more. This decision was reversed when Spielberg decided he wasn't going to mess with his movies the likes of E.T. anymore.

5) The DVD was color timed rather neutrally (close to the colors that came from the camera and o-neg) because they thought it looked good and didn't bother to look at reference materials. When doing the BD they attempted to make it closer to the theatrical look but modern choices still crept in (like some occasional teal). This is what i think.

6) None of the transfers are right and Raiders was originally presented in a bright neon purple and chartreuse palette.

For what its worth, I think that Spielberg approved the Bluray/IMAX colors. (Although this does not mean that they are accurate in the slightest)

That is really horrid DNR. The bluray looks great, I need to get that soon.

Lowery (who did the DVD irc) does this shit all the time on their transfers. Thankfully the Bluray removed these "tweaks." (With the exception of the snake reflection. Why?!)

jero32 said:

Previous releases aren't typically good references though. I mean just look at a lot of the star wars laserdisk releases.

Yep. The fact is that we don't know what many films looked like during their theatrical runs.

I'm of the opinion that the bluray certainly looks much better colorwise then the DVD. It certainly has modern leanings (slight teal shift here and there), but on the whole it looks pretty good. And I don't see much in the way of DNR here. (We're lucky Lowery didn't get their hands on this version.)

Raider's color timing was defiantly changed for the blu-ray, but it likely is not correct on the previous transfers ether. For what its worth, I actually like the blu-ray look. It certainly doesn't destroy the look of the film like the new bluray for the Terminator.

It's definitely "sit down." The beginning is hard to hear, but I can clearly hear him say "down."

I think he actually says "over my dead body."

It's kind of hard to tell just by listening, but his lips look like they say "over."

Almost every film on home media these days has different color timing, as they usually use the original (uncolortimed) negative for better quality and then when they recolor it they often don't pay much attention to any color references.

Can anyone post screencaps of these? It seems pretty interesting.

timdiggerm said:

I, for one, would like a 5.1 mono-upmix with "Close the blastdoors", the stereo Tantive alarm, and all of Tarkin's lines replaced with a Spanish dub. That seems reasonable.

That actually sounds strangely cool... Although I nominate C3-P0 for the Spanish lines.

hairy_hen, are you still going to do an alternate version for star wars? You said awhile back that you might do one that adds in some elements of the '93, '97 and/or mono mix. It would kind of neat to hear the different Aunt Beru voice or "close the blast doors" along with your great 5.1 mix.

yoda-sama said:

I keep seeing people ask if Hairy's 5.1 reconstruction is 'better' than the Blu-ray audio, to which the response is always that it blows it out of the water.  What I'm wondering is in what aspects exactly does it best it?

The best way to truly understand is a direct comparison. Listen with headphones or good speakers for the best effect!

Here is a direct comparison of the Bluray and the one used in 2.1 (Hairy_Hen posted this awhile back, but the link went down). The differences are very noticeable. The bluray has added effects, a flat droning bass sound and is first in the comparison. If you listen, you will notice that the Bluray is very muddy (lacking much of the treble sound) and lacks any dynamic range. The sound levels are noticeably clipped and distorted when the death star blows up

http://www.mediafire.com/?avv1d8izol8hy3t

Here is also a description of what is precisely wrong with the "official" mix: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/post/548812/#TopicPost548812