oh_riginal

RicOlie_2 said:

Perhaps Obi-Wan's ghost could be really wordy? He could explain what the force is every time he tells Luke to use it, which should be far more frequently than he does now.

But when he appears on Hoth, he simply says "Run, Luke, run!" and disappears.

 Obi Wan should say "run, Luke, run!" every single time Luke runs in all the films:

• Luke fleeing the cave

• Luke running to his speeder for the AT-AT battle

• Luke chasing the AT-AT to toss the grenade in it

• Luke running to check on R2 after he gets spit out by the swamp monster

• Luke running through the swamp with Yoda on his back... with a possibility of having Yoda annoyed by Obi Wan and saying something back

• Luke running while sneaking around Cloud City, just before Boba Fett shoots at him

• When Vader makes Luke drop his lightsaber Obi Wan could yell it out, and again after Vader tosses debris at him

• Obi Wan could try telling Luke to run after Vader says "Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father..." so that it seems like Obi Wan is trying to hurry Luke to jumping. Then when Luke asks why didn't he tell him, Obi Wan could say something like "Obi Wan don't seem to remember your father. Stay here. Luke's destiny lies on a different path from Obi Wan's."

Of course, these examples are just for ESB. The "run, Luke, run" could be an ongoing gag.

To bring this up again, I'm wondering about the logic behind making the Falcon's shadow on the asteroid into a soft circle. Here is a still of when the Falcon is about to enter the asteroid cave, and as you can see, the shadow is pretty detailed. Detail can be seen in many shadows of rocks and such throughout the scene as well.

Sorry for such a low res image, but it's the best I could pull up at the moment.

brash_stryker said:

I'm not sure where the insult is there.....least of all a personal one. It looked to me more like an observation of his lack of any valid point to make, coupled with the bad attitude when called out on that fact. How is that a personal insult?

 To be honest here, it's one thing when people come into the forum and make suggestions for the edit that are so far from being logical from a technical standpoint that it is just preposterous. At least it is still on topic.

It's something else when people start trying to one-up each other, and then either start being rude as hell, or they start to talk down to each other in an obnoxious, condescending manner. There are quite a few people who are regulars on these forums that do this, and I doubt most of them would ever care to admit it.

I hate to say it, but it happens a bit too often, and I wish it was regulated better. I do enjoy visiting the many threads, especially this one, but there are days when people really go out of their way to show their ugly side. I realize this is not new, being the internet and all, but it's still a shame, regardless.

I hope all this nonsense will just stop, and people can be a bit more mature about how they handle these conversations. If you've read all this, thank you for your time.

I like to watch it in this order sometimes:

1. Episode IV

2. Episode V

3. Episode I

4. Episode II

5. Episode III

6. Episode VI

This way, after Vader reveals who he actually is, then I can go back and watch the backstory.

Then I watch Return of the Jedi and then the scene where Luke surrenders to Vader has a different feel when Vader says "so you've accepted the truth," and Luke replies "I've accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."

It's not chronological, technically, but I found it to be a fun way to include the PT into the viewing.

TV's Frink said:

Someone actually read that novel?  ;-)

 First of a trilogy! Well, until it becomes a saga.

darth_ender said:

One of my favorite franchises is Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy.  Excellent movies, all three of them, in my book.  I know people have issues with things here and there, but I love them.  And in spite of the complaints people level against these films, one thing I never hear is how disconnected clips in the scenes are.  You will watch a conversation take place, and it is extremely obvious that the editing is cutting out a few seconds here and there.  It's not hard to miss, everyone knows it is happening.  Yet, no one cares.  We don't have to have every second on screen to know what happened.  I never, ever have had a problem with the asteroid scene.  It was obvious that we had skipped ahead a few seconds, just like TDK trilogy and other movies do all the time.  Just like "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer" led to an immediate burst of A-wing firepower upon the Executor's shield generator, though there is no way the order could have been responded to so quickly and effectively in so short a time.  Just like Luke dropped to the top of the Millennium Falcon from the underside of Cloud City and was immediately carried into the ship, though Lando could not have possibly gotten ahold of him and brought him inside standing up in so short a time.  Just like Vader got all the way to the Executor from Cloud City with no shuttle needing to be seen in so short a time, impossibly fast if we were to assume time passed at a literal speed.  Just like Luke taking off from Hoth, with no wipe indicating the passage of time, was seen in his X-wing hovering feet from the surface while the canopy closed, and then was immediately beyond the atmosphere.  Why do we have to see every second?  So often movies skip unneeded moments, and we never complain.  Why, oh why would we have to spoon feed the audience that somehow the Falcon had managed to traverse the distance to the larger asteroid and meanwhile changed the angle of approach?

 Thank you for this explanation. I honestly do not see why the asteroid scene is being made out to be this HUGE continuity error that's been plaguing the film for generations.

brash_stryker said:

What the hell has happened to these boards?.............

 It's been "Special Edition'd." :-)

I'm just waiting for ESB:R to come out, at this point.

I don't wait for new clips or trailers. I've even skipped a few of the more recent ones, because I started to feel like I was getting too much before it's actual release, and I want to save as many surprises as possible for my first viewing. I have nothing against viewing these clips, so I don't judge anyone who loves them, it's just how I feel.

I'm as eager now as I was when learning ESB:R would be created. ANH:R made for a great experience, and it is still my go-to version, unless I'm in a de-specialized mood. Then I turn to Harmy's great preservations.

So yeah, I guess all I'm trying to say is, I've been patient. I will continue to be patient. When ESB:R is finally released, I will download it, burn it to a BD-R, and enjoy it like seeing ESB for the first time.

metalmunki said:

Jonno said:

metalmunki said:

The problem here I feel(in the original, not just your edit Ady), is that there is a straight cut from the one scene to the next, indicating no passage of time, where as we can clearly see 'the big one' pretty far away in the first shot.

 Nope, you're labouring under the misapprehension that these films are playing in real time unless there's a wipe.

It's an absolutely standard aspect of editing grammar that a cut can omit unnecessary time - usually a matter of seconds, sometimes more - from a single scene. I would imagine that most viewers have an innate understanding of this.

If you start to pull on that thread, you'll have a wipe every 30 seconds...

 Not only did you manage to sound utterly condescending, but you're completely wrong in this case.

 Honestly, I didn't read what Jonno wrote as condescending. It sounds exactly like the lessons I learned in film school.

I've never had a problem with this part of the scene.

I'd like to see something from the Dooku duel.

timdiggerm said:

That...is how making and editing films works.

 Yep, between first drafts, revised drafts, shooting scripts, assembly edits, rough cuts, revised versions of the rough cut, screenings for public reaction before release, etc.

Filmmaking is a long, complicated process. Even more so in the 1970s when things weren't digital yet.

Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

oh_riginal said:

While we're on the subject of the asteroid field, I'd like to bring up this question, since it was never answered.

In the latest version of the asteroid chase, when the Falcon gets close to the surface of the big asteroid, it still has a perfect circle for a shadow. Is it still in the plans to make a more detailed shadow that matches the Falcon's shape?

 Guys! Answer to this questions and stop complaining about the donations!

 +1

While we're on the subject of the asteroid field, I'd like to bring up this question, since it was never answered.

In the latest version of the asteroid chase, when the Falcon gets close to the surface of the big asteroid, it still has a perfect circle for a shadow. Is it still in the plans to make a more detailed shadow that matches the Falcon's shape?

DominicCobb said:

Regarding the Ben's hut scene, I'm a little confused. Everyone seems to say that ady's version follows the script. But it doesn't. I've looked at the script, the theatrical cut follows the scene exactly as it was written. However, ady's version does flow well and it seems as if the scene was shot with that sequence of dialogue in mind. Can someone clarify this for me?

 From what I understand, Ady's version is the scene as it was originally shot. That is why there are no continuity errors in it, naturally. It was then later re-edited in post-production due to what the filmmakers felt was a pacing issue.

I happen to agree with this, and that is why I prefer the theatrical version. I don't mean to disrespect Ady's decision in his rearrangement, it's just my opinion. I never set out to say that Ady is wrong, nor did I imply that those who like his edit of that scene are wrong.

I just have my preference, and I felt it was worth explaining why, that is all.

I'm not usually one to post just to ask for an update... but I'll be that guy today.

I'm just intrigued by the whole concept behind these versions of the PT.

ray_afraid said:

oh_riginal said:

regularjoe said:

I'm really glad to hear that the next version has the repaired version of the scene.  One is able argue either way for the flow of the structure of the scene based on how it is played out, for me the issue is continuity.  As a twelve year old kid I was noticing that C3PO's behavior was not consistent throughout the scene and it has always been a speed bump watching the scene.

 My main issue with the scene is how it makes Obi Wan appear in his intentions.

In the theatrical cut, Obi Wan plays catch up with Luke before checking out the message from Leia. In Ady's version (which restores the edit to how it was scripted), Obi Wan plays the message first, then butters Luke up with the intention to talk him into joining him.

To me, this makes it seem that his small talk with Luke is manipulative, and that he only wants to hustle Luke into helping him, if that makes sense.

In the theatrical cut, with the small talk coming first, it makes it feel more like Obi Wan is genuinely interested in catching up with Luke before getting to business with R2-D2. To me, this makes Obi Wan seem like a true friend to Luke, since he had no ulterior motive to make him want to have a friendly talk.

I don't know if the way I'm explaining it makes sense, as I've tried to tell others why I prefer the theatrical edit to Ady's in this one instance, but it's rare that anyone seems to agree with me on my reasons.

If I had Adywan's talents, I would rather attempt to fix the continuity of C-3PO without changing the edit of the scene, rather than change it back to the script version. Unfortunately, that is not within my skills as an editor.

Okay, just wanted to throw in my two cents on this topic. Thanks for reading.

I think you've got Obi-Wans motivations right.
But he isn't Lukes old friend. He's been waiting to get Luke involved since his birth. That's why he's hiding on Tatooine. So the way Ady has the scene play out makes perfect sense to me.
Obi-Wan is a bit manipulative. That's why Luke isn't sure who to trust by the end of ESB. Luke even calls Obi-Wan out on it in ROTJ.

 He comes off as manipulative either way, from a trilogy standpoint. My issue is that he comes off as OBVIOUSLY manipulative, to the point that I don't like Obi Wan as soon as the hut scene has concluded. I know this may sound strange coming from someone who has seen the movie countless times, but it's true.

To me, it's like seeing a kid getting hustled in the street. I want someone to come and tell Luke "hey, don't listen to this guy, he just wants to use you."

I didn't get this feeling from the original edit. To me it went like this (in a way):

Obi Wan: Hey, I knew your dad! I don't want to get into it, but we used to be good friends. Hey, want this lightsaber? You ever heard of the Force?

Then they watch Leia's message...

Obi Wan: Well, I'm an old man. I'm gonna need help to save her. Let's go!

Luke: No.

Obi Wan: Well hey, I understand. Gotta listen to your instincts. Even if they belong to your uncle.

In the other edit, it plays like this to me:

Obi Wan: You're lucky I showed up to help you. Let's check out this video then you can be on your way.

Then they watch Leia's message...

Obi Wan: Hmm... so, hey buddy, check out this lightsaber. Want some candy to go with that? The Force will make you the ultimate badass. I should know, I was a Jedi before too. So was your dad. Like father, like son, right? Yeah... so anyway, I need you to come to Alderaan.

Luke: No.

Obi Wan: Oh, that's just your uncle talking. Whatever.

I said it before, I'm in the minority for preferring the scene as originally released. Even if Obi Wan IS manipulative to a degree, I never felt like he was NOT a friend to Luke, even if he lied to him. The rearranged edit changes that for me, unfortunately. It's a small detail, but one that affects me across a trilogy. A far more extreme example would be Han shooting Greedo, then changed by Lucas to Greedo shooting first. To me, this edit is like that, but less obvious to most people. Everything else in ANH:R works as close to perfect as possible, though.

regularjoe said:

I'm really glad to hear that the next version has the repaired version of the scene.  One is able argue either way for the flow of the structure of the scene based on how it is played out, for me the issue is continuity.  As a twelve year old kid I was noticing that C3PO's behavior was not consistent throughout the scene and it has always been a speed bump watching the scene.

 My main issue with the scene is how it makes Obi Wan appear in his intentions.

In the theatrical cut, Obi Wan plays catch up with Luke before checking out the message from Leia. In Ady's version (which restores the edit to how it was scripted), Obi Wan plays the message first, then butters Luke up with the intention to talk him into joining him.

To me, this makes it seem that his small talk with Luke is manipulative, and that he only wants to hustle Luke into helping him, if that makes sense.

In the theatrical cut, with the small talk coming first, it makes it feel more like Obi Wan is genuinely interested in catching up with Luke before getting to business with R2-D2. To me, this makes Obi Wan seem like a true friend to Luke, since he had no ulterior motive to make him want to have a friendly talk.

I don't know if the way I'm explaining it makes sense, as I've tried to tell others why I prefer the theatrical edit to Ady's in this one instance, but it's rare that anyone seems to agree with me on my reasons.

If I had Adywan's talents, I would rather attempt to fix the continuity of C-3PO without changing the edit of the scene, rather than change it back to the script version. Unfortunately, that is not within my skills as an editor.

Okay, just wanted to throw in my two cents on this topic. Thanks for reading.

Joshua_Blue said:

A new idea (just a test video, audio/video not perfect):

http://www.speedyshare.com/gRpvV/test3.mp4

I have moved the 'This had better work!' scene and combined it with a later scene of Tarkin and Vader

It actually looks quite ok, what do you think? How I see it now, Tarkin has doubts about Vader's tracking device idea, but we are now already orbiting the planet and Vader calmly (and over confidently) rejects the worries, as if he knew all along it was going to work...

 My only issue with it is that Tarkin is specifically referring to the tracking device when he is asking if it will work, yet they are orbiting Yavin, meaning they've already tracked the device to a set location, which would imply it DID work already, so why would Tarkin ask about the device being on the ship?

However, the two Vader/Tarkin shots do match up quite well, as if they were filmed as one scene and edited into that clip intentionally.

Maybe if the conversation were a bit more focused so that the doubt is about the system, rather than the tracking device, it might work. It could go like this:

Tarkin: "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work."

Vader: (from ESB) "That IS the system." which then resumes back to "This will be a day long remembered..."

muddyknees2000 said:

I got used to it quite quickly and prefer it to the theatrical version now.

 Even with having watched ANH:R far more often than the DVD or blu-ray versions, I just can't get used to it. It will always feel off to me. Ironically, now I have the tools necessary to fix it for myself, I just haven't done it yet.

Ronster said:

Thanks for the recent update on FB...

Just a quick one I spotted today... When Han shoots the Probe Droid and it explodes his gun makes no sound at all.

Can you fix this one please Ady or have you already fixed it?

 I always heard and saw two shots, followed by the probe self-destructing. Never saw an error there.

Octorox said:

Harmy, if you do make a BD25 version of this down the line, is there any chance you could include the 81 crawl via seamless branching? That would make me very happy :)

 I wouldn't mind this either, since it's the version I grew up with.

darth_ender said:

Indeed, it is a good idea.  My bigger concern would actually be the music which starts before the line finishes.

 If, in 5.1, the dialogue is separated entirely from the other tracks, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Bingowings said:

Vader's line about it being, "a day long remembered" mitigate much of the threat in the line.

Perhaps you could shave the, "it had better work" or maybe you could replace Vader's over confident line with, "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" line from ROTJ suggesting that the gambit is Tarkin's which Vader and the Emperor would punish Tarkin for if it failed.

 That's not a bad idea at all. It would just be a matter of making the voice quality more like ANH:R, rather than ROTJ.

I seem to be in the minority here, but I'd change the Ben's hut scene back to the theatrical version.

But yes, I like the version of the Vader/Ben duel with the choir-less music. It seems to fit better. I honestly do hope that Ady includes an optional audio track that has the music in it, since I've grown to expect to hear it now when watching ANH, since ANH:R has been my go-to version for so long now.