oh_riginal

Angel Blue01 said:

Enigmas said:

Between galaxies there are vast stretches of black emptiness*. But even from our planet, which is nestled within the Milky Way, we can see other galaxies, the visible ones appearing as smudges to the unaided eye. So for this scene, there could be a 'starfield' beyond the galaxy in the forefront, but each 'star' would actually be a galaxy.

 

*ignoring quantum fluctuations.

 

 

All this is moot because Adywan has said he will be keeping the galaxy as is. That said, I prefer Angel's mock-up. I always thought the original looked weird, even when I first saw it.

As it did for me, it doesn't look very good or make very much sense, and I love your mockup Angel. But I don't mind that the shot is staying the same. Its not a big deal.

But what about that nebula version, where did that come from? Has anyone else seen it? It bothers me far more than changes/lack of changes to the scene in Adywan's edit. :p

EDIT: Sorry Bingowings! I've only started going over the entirety of that thread, and this one.

I'm still (as far as I know, the only one) that still chooses to believe that it is a forming star, rather than a galaxy.

TV's Frink said:

brash_stryker said:

True, we didn't have Ric Olie standing there saying "that's the reactor core you're throwing him into."

If Ric Olie didn't explain it, it didn't happen.  That's why only EP 1 exists, and everything else (including this forum) is a figment of my imagination.

Thank the maker that Ric Olie was in the hospital room to say "TV's Frink was just born!"

 

It actually explains a lot! How else did Geonosis disappear from the archives? Ric Olie told the bitchy Jedi librarian NOTHING about it!

vaderios said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

New video...

Hey awesome.

i like it!

reduces the childish feeling and adds a more Solo thing.

-Angel

I agree! I would even say that is more "Han Solo-esque" than anything else in the official cut of ROTJ, even when he actually says the line "convenient" on Tatooine!

DarthBo said:

oh_riginal said:

RoccondilRinon said:

I like that. C-3PO's shortened line sounds so much more pitiful than the original, that it's almost an improvement.

 

I agree, even though that wasn't my intention at all. I just wanted Han's line to be spoken a second or two later, AFTER the cave appears onscreen, and I could either have had Han's and C-3PO's lines partially overlap, which I didn't want to do, or remove 3PO's line entirely, which I also didn't want to do. So I went halfway with the options. Leia's line is also delayed slightly, to keep the scene from having too big of a dialogue gap altogether.

I'm not a big fan of the shortened line. One problem remains though: Han still doesn't actually _look_ at the cave.

True. This scene is starting to feel like holes in a dam for me... I guess there just isn't a good way to really fix the scene, short of replacing the outside view of the cockpit, which is definitely beyond my skills in mock-ups. I give up on this scene, as I've done all I could.

RoccondilRinon said:

I like that. C-3PO's shortened line sounds so much more pitiful than the original, that it's almost an improvement.

I agree, even though that wasn't my intention at all. I just wanted Han's line to be spoken a second or two later, AFTER the cave appears onscreen, and I could either have had Han's and C-3PO's lines partially overlap, which I didn't want to do, or remove 3PO's line entirely, which I also didn't want to do. So I went halfway with the options. Leia's line is also delayed slightly, to keep the scene from having too big of a dialogue gap altogether.

Davnes007 said:

Ripplin said:

oh_riginal said:And now, the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKGFj5OYY9Q

Nice one! I don't even think any video changes would have to be made. The first line can stay as-is because we can say he's just seeing a huge canyon (which he might've been able to hide in even if there wasn't a cave), then just delay his "that'll do nicely" line for a second until they come over the ridge. I'm sure someone could do it even though it might mess up the timing of the audio or something.

I agree. Just cut out the bit between "There...that looks pretty good.", and "That'll do nicely.". Perfect fix. End of problem. :D

 

Okay, I've done a new mock-up of this scene. The difference being that instead of saying that Han predicted the cave entrance, instead he is, as everyone here has suggested, first saw the canyon and thought it may be a potential place to hide, but then sees the cave and realizes it is even better than he first assumed.

Half of a character's line had to be sacrificed for it to work, but I don't miss it, honestly. Now, here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4An0G1pFiU

Davnes007 said:

Ripplin said:

oh_riginal said:And now, the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKGFj5OYY9Q

Nice one! I don't even think any video changes would have to be made. The first line can stay as-is because we can say he's just seeing a huge canyon (which he might've been able to hide in even if there wasn't a cave), then just delay his "that'll do nicely" line for a second until they come over the ridge. I'm sure someone could do it even though it might mess up the timing of the audio or something.

I agree. Just cut out the bit between "There...that looks pretty good.", and "That'll do nicely.". Perfect fix. End of problem. :D

 

At least I'm getting some good feedback on this, as I thought it would just get dismissed, from being such a weak mock-up.

But yes, I think this is an issue not only worth fixing, but should be fixed. Re-timing the second Han line would be good enough for me. At least it would match the timing of the cave reveal!

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

Nice GIF work but it does show how much the original matte (and your GIF) doesn't match the set or the other mattes much.

yup I know. i just smudge the empty areas just to look good. i did not texture work ;) the point is in the camera movement ;)

-Angel

 

Nice idea for the moving angle of the camera perspective. That would definitely add more life to that particular shot!

adywan said:

 He points as he sees the large crater ahead and then says "yeh, that'll do nicely" as the cave comes into his view

"They're not taking me without a fight!"

Ah, but if you watch the scene again, he even starts saying that line before the cave is in sight... and I even made a video showing the scene in as descriptive of a detail as possible, with a few (rough) mock-ups for good measure, just to prove my point.

There is nothing wrong with the theory that Han knows to hide in an asteroid, since he is a smuggler, but that's not what I'm trying to point out. I'm just trying to point out that Han somehow predicted that cave location, and it is illogical.

doubleofive said:

vaderios said:

doubleofive said:

 (If Fishman can post his "mockups", then I can certainly repost the only video one I've ever done!)

Can you make a list of his mockups please? :)

 

-Angel

I was debating on adding the quotation marks, thanks for clarifying the need to do so. ;-)

It would be very time consuming I assume, but it would be nice to have an actual list of all the (liked) mock-ups collected eventually, whether they be picture mock-ups, video mock-ups, whatever, and put in one easy-access place when ROTJ:R starts to kick into gear! Even if they were just links, or a series of pics on a page, it would help to keep things from being forgotten later on if they were organized well enough.

Just a thought for the future.

RoccondilRinon said:

Well, if the sensors tell him where it is, that's reasonable. He'd be looking out the window, trying to see what he's been told is there, not pointing it out on the console. He's talking almost to himself, or maybe just to Chewbacca.

I don't know, that seems to be a stretch. If it were me flying, and I saw a cave on the sensor, I'd be pointing at the sensor while saying that, instead of pointing out the window when I still can't see it with my own eyes. Just saying....

As you can see here, neither Han's eyes OR his finger is pointing anywhere on the dashboard, implying he is looking out the front view of the cockpit, as if something is in front of the ship... in this case, a cave entrance.

"That looks pretty good...."

"What looks pretty good?"

Indeed! What the hell is Han pointing at? Clearly the screen is black on the monitor, so there isn't any sensors on obviously. The cave is still a distance further, inside that valley up ahead. How could Han possibly know a cave is there??

"Excuse me, ma'am, but where are we going?"

Into a cave that Han used the force to predict would be there, apparently!

Solution? As I mentioned before, maybe changing the view outside the cockpit to match what the characters are supposed to be seeing.

I suppose one could also turn the sensor on in this shot, but it would be so small that it wouldn't really make the average movie viewer understand why it is on, since the screen would only be visible for a brief moment (not to mention that Leia would block it quickly when she stood up). The only way this would work would be to add a close-up of the monitor, and I know from personal experience that there is simply no hi-res close-ups of the monitor to be found for a proper mock-up... and oh, how I wish there were, as a few of you may recall.....

EyeShotFirst said:

oh_riginal said:

doubleofive said:

EyeShotFirst said:

Ady isn't killing Lando. He said so himself.

Ah, but this is the Wishlist for any/all RotJ edits (and ESB, but most people tend to put their ESB ideas on Ady's thread).  Killing Lando is still an option for some edits.

 

Amen.

I don't feel bothered by the explosion of the Death Star. Yeah, so what if the first Death Star exploded in an instant! Luke still had time from when he shot his proton torpedo to get a good, safe distance away from the explosion.

It's the escape that is exciting to watch. It was definitely one of my favorite parts of ROTJ as a kid. The only thing that (barely at all) bothers me is that the Falcon takes way longer to reach the core than it takes for it to get back to the surface. It should be about the same amount of time, judging by the speed Lando is flying the ship both ways.

But, as I said, I'm barely bothered at all by that.

Well also you tend to do things better the second time around. Hell I thought I would never beat Tomb Raider but after I finally did I can beat in no time.

 

I'm not sure "better" and "faster" can be interchangeable in Lando's situation.

But yeah, I remember being able to beat Super Star Wars in no time after the first time, way back when....

doubleofive said:

Maybe we shouldn't think of it as ONE massive explosion, but a chain reaction of explosions.  Certainly the Falcon could outrun a chain reaction.  With some creative editing, I think one could convey the idea of things being overloaded and exploding instead of one huge explosion working its way outward.  Maybe have the DS break apart instead of just pop (the last one popped, maybe since this one isn't fully built it could just break apart?).  Just a thought.

Unless you just kill off Lando.  Then you don't have to do anything.  (If Fishman can post his mockups, then I can certainly repost the only video one I've ever done!)

Watching this again reminds me of how funny I thought it was when I say the "title card"

"Anakin Dies :.("

Still makes me laugh!

doubleofive said:

EyeShotFirst said:

Ady isn't killing Lando. He said so himself.

Ah, but this is the Wishlist for any/all RotJ edits (and ESB, but most people tend to put their ESB ideas on Ady's thread).  Killing Lando is still an option for some edits.

Amen.

I don't feel bothered by the explosion of the Death Star. Yeah, so what if the first Death Star exploded in an instant! Luke still had time from when he shot his proton torpedo to get a good, safe distance away from the explosion.

It's the escape that is exciting to watch. It was definitely one of my favorite parts of ROTJ as a kid. The only thing that (barely at all) bothers me is that the Falcon takes way longer to reach the core than it takes for it to get back to the surface. It should be about the same amount of time, judging by the speed Lando is flying the ship both ways.

But, as I said, I'm barely bothered at all by that.

Histeria said:

oh_riginal said:

doubleofive said:

fishmanlee said:

oh_riginal said:

It's been tough to find things that bother me about ESB, knowing the majority of them are being fixed. I've made many suggestions in this thread (some rejected, some supported), and after all this time, my idea well is running more and more dry!

But... here is one thing I've been meaning to mention for a while, and just kept forgetting to do for some reason... toward the end of the asteroid chase, just before Han finds the asteroid cave, he says "there, that looks pretty good." While he says this line, he points out the cockpit with his finger, implying he VISUALLY spotted it with nothing but the eyes he was born with...

... yet in the next shot, while Leia is asking "what looks pretty good?", the view outside of the cockpit is very clearly NOT showing a cave yet! As they continue flying, only then does the cave appear. How could Han have known there was a cave there? For all he knew, it could have just been another valley!

A fix could be just replacing the footage outside the front of the cockpit to show what Han is talking about, maybe making the cave appear a lot sooner, or making the valley bigger so that they are already flying into it when Leia says the line. Otherwise, it is just illogical to see how Han spotted a cave that he couldn't possibly have seen yet, as he kept the Falcon flying low the entire time.

"What looks pretty good?" Indeed.

 um he was saying it about the "ASTEROID" it self

Why would he randomly point out the asteroid they've been flying over for a minute or so already (they lose the TIEs in a canyon on the same asteroid where he points out the cave no one can see yet)?

 

 

To be fair I point out sidewalks that I've been walking on for over a minute and say "that looks pretty good" all the time. Then when I reach the edge of the curb I notice a pothole before I see it. It's awesome!

All kidding aside, this is one error in the movie I'd love to see fixed. A mock-up for this may be too difficult for me to pull off, so I don't think I'll be taking a stab at it, unfortunately.

 

I'd always assumed that the Falcon's sensors (which Han was looking at and Leia wasn't) had picked up the 'cave' before it it could be seen from the cockpit.

 

I thought maybe this was the case too, and rewatched the scene last night. It looks like his hand is too high to be pointing at any screens or gadgets on the dashboard. It looks more like he is pointing out the cockpit window.

doubleofive said:

Maybe we shouldn't think of it as ONE massive explosion, but a chain reaction of explosions.  Certainly the Falcon could outrun a chain reaction.  With some creative editing, I think one could convey the idea of things being overloaded and exploding instead of one huge explosion working its way outward.  Maybe have the DS break apart instead of just pop (the last one popped, maybe since this one isn't fully built it could just break apart?).  Just a thought.

Unless you just kill off Lando.  Then you don't have to do anything.  (If Fishman can post his mockups, then I can certainly repost the only video one I've ever done!)

I am still of the "Save Lando" camp, so I would go with the former idea, rather than the latter.

But don't we already get some minor Death Star destruction during the scene when Luke is dragging Vader to the shuttle? I thought there were sparks and other such things happening? Maybe enhancing some of that may work? I'd have to watch that scene again to see if that would even be possible.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

Maybe someone else can do a better render of the same idea?

If i wasn't witness this with my eyes i could say that you hacked my pc because i was making what you made ( with some enhancements) 2 days ago.

:D

Now we both know that is an awesome idea hehe

EDIT:

 

-Angel

I like the idea. It makes the dish seem to have more of a purpose than before. Too bad this idea wasn't brought up for ANH:R too.

It somehow, just so slightly, reminds me how the laser in ID4 builds up, for some reason. But more Star Wars-y (of course).

doubleofive said:

fishmanlee said:

oh_riginal said:

It's been tough to find things that bother me about ESB, knowing the majority of them are being fixed. I've made many suggestions in this thread (some rejected, some supported), and after all this time, my idea well is running more and more dry!

But... here is one thing I've been meaning to mention for a while, and just kept forgetting to do for some reason... toward the end of the asteroid chase, just before Han finds the asteroid cave, he says "there, that looks pretty good." While he says this line, he points out the cockpit with his finger, implying he VISUALLY spotted it with nothing but the eyes he was born with...

... yet in the next shot, while Leia is asking "what looks pretty good?", the view outside of the cockpit is very clearly NOT showing a cave yet! As they continue flying, only then does the cave appear. How could Han have known there was a cave there? For all he knew, it could have just been another valley!

A fix could be just replacing the footage outside the front of the cockpit to show what Han is talking about, maybe making the cave appear a lot sooner, or making the valley bigger so that they are already flying into it when Leia says the line. Otherwise, it is just illogical to see how Han spotted a cave that he couldn't possibly have seen yet, as he kept the Falcon flying low the entire time.

"What looks pretty good?" Indeed.

 um he was saying it about the "ASTEROID" it self

Why would he randomly point out the asteroid they've been flying over for a minute or so already (they lose the TIEs in a canyon on the same asteroid where he points out the cave no one can see yet)?

To be fair I point out sidewalks that I've been walking on for over a minute and say "that looks pretty good" all the time. Then when I reach the edge of the curb I notice a pothole before I see it. It's awesome!

All kidding aside, this is one error in the movie I'd love to see fixed. A mock-up for this may be too difficult for me to pull off, so I don't think I'll be taking a stab at it, unfortunately.

Darth Venal said:

Doesn't the beam come out of the middle anyway in Jedi?

I believe he wants to change the appearance of how the smaller lasers come out. Something along the lines of coming from the edges of the dish and collecting in the center. I think....

Bingowings said:

oh_riginal said:

Bingowings said:

Personally I never liked the way the weapon fired in the first place.

There is a big dish with a nipple in the middle so it just makes more sense to me that the smaller beams focused on the nipple thing (technincal term) and the large ray fired out of it and was focused by the dish.

Having everything fire out into space and meet there looks suitably science fantasy but doesn't really make much sense visually.

 

If you're talking about the appearance of the laser firing in ANH and ROTJ and how different they look, I 100% agree, and this has always bothered me.

If I had been on the forums before ANH:R, I might have requested to make the laser firing of the ANH Death Star to be more like the ROTJ Death Star. It probably would even be one of the easier effects to create! Just add an extra laser beam coming out of the center of the dish upon firing.

In my opinion, it just "looks right" to have it that way in ROTJ.

No and yes.

I was saying that I don't really like the way the Death Star fires in either film, I'd have the beams meet right above the surface of the dish and have the central beam come out of the hole in the middle, I'll see if I can do a mockup later.

 

 

Ohhh... I think I see what you're saying. Looking forward to the mock-up!

Darth Venal said:

Oh_riginal, you've done it!

Those guys definitely look clearer and so the scale is easier to get from that very brief shot. I think it's worked wonderfully well, achieved exactly the idea I was hoping for. Thanks for putting that together.

Great stuff!

They looked like they needed rails for safety bad enough the first time... now they really look like they could use some rails! Or at least a bigger platform. I don't feel like mocking that up though....

Ripplin said:

Darth Venal said:

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. My mate did it and sent it to me to distract me at work. He succeeded!

I've seen worse...

 

That's classic! Best mock-up ever!

Ages 4 and up....

It's been tough to find things that bother me about ESB, knowing the majority of them are being fixed. I've made many suggestions in this thread (some rejected, some supported), and after all this time, my idea well is running more and more dry!

But... here is one thing I've been meaning to mention for a while, and just kept forgetting to do for some reason... toward the end of the asteroid chase, just before Han finds the asteroid cave, he says "there, that looks pretty good." While he says this line, he points out the cockpit with his finger, implying he VISUALLY spotted it with nothing but the eyes he was born with...

... yet in the next shot, while Leia is asking "what looks pretty good?", the view outside of the cockpit is very clearly NOT showing a cave yet! As they continue flying, only then does the cave appear. How could Han have known there was a cave there? For all he knew, it could have just been another valley!

A fix could be just replacing the footage outside the front of the cockpit to show what Han is talking about, maybe making the cave appear a lot sooner, or making the valley bigger so that they are already flying into it when Leia says the line. Otherwise, it is just illogical to see how Han spotted a cave that he couldn't possibly have seen yet, as he kept the Falcon flying low the entire time.

"What looks pretty good?" Indeed.

Darth Venal said:

I'm liking your stuff, Oh. Very much. I've nearly finished a matte that you can use for the second shot of the palace, with the main gate etc. I'll post soon.

Mind if I throw some more ideas at you, see what you come up with? I don't have time to do video mock ups, too busy with my mattes and "real" work. ;-)

Sure, I'm always open to ideas! Until school starts up again, I got plenty of free time time for video mock-ups for, oh... another month! Just haven't really had a lot of ideas of my own lately, and been picking up on ideas from this forum.

I've definitely exhausted my ideas for ESB already! ROTJ is still pretty fresh to me for mock-ups.

fishmanlee said:

the music was a bit much dont you think?

mind if i try putting music to it? i have a cue in mind that might fit

Do whatever you like with it. It's not like I have a copyright or anything.