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ocpmovie

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Post
#195320
Topic
***//BUILDING EMPIRE\\: PAL & NTSC DVD - NEW EDITION NOW ONLINE! ***
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195320/action/topic#195320
Time
I found the easter egg. It was a bitch to find. You really hid it. =)

I always figure that people aren't looking for easter eggs on these things, so I always make mine pretty easy to find. But I prefer 'em hidden. Heheh.


Anyway, GREAT easter egg. I can't tell you how glad I am that this is on there. I had suggested to you that this would make a good new opening for the film - and clearly it's too long for that - but I'm glad it's on there somewhere. It's very relevant. =D
Post
#195316
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195316/action/topic#195316
Time
Yeah I know. Don't it go to show you never know?

Clearly posted on emule by someone "in the know," as it were. Someone who worked on the film.

A CERTAIN SOURCE
The whole Brigand sequence was shot over exposed and hazy to give it a desert feel. Dick and John Leatherbarrow the DOP spent ages trying to get the right look.

ME
It shows. The way the light shows through the lines of, say, Roofless's beard, and the sand glows, is something else.
The photography throughout the film is unusually clever.
Some of the brigand stuff only appears in pencil test even in Calvert's rough cut, so some of the closeups probably weren't shot by John (though they might have been) - like Roofless talking to Yumyum. That might be a Calvert-shot shot. But they matched the look pretty well.


I had a talk with Jerry Vershoor tonight. Cleared up a few things.

He kept two versions of the script, as well as lots of art - model sheets for all characters, in color also.

He saved a VHS copy of the workprint direct from the U-matic, but he did so three months before the studio closed - which means it's the normal workprint that we all have. I had hoped that he had managed to get the fabled "second and final workprint," which no one seems to have bootlegged.

His copy would presumably be in PAL and high quality, and thus very desirable, but the problem is he's moved to China recently, and his stuff is all still in Australia.

He told me that in 3/4 months he would have his things shipped to China, and then maybe I could come to China and see them there.

Uh.


I'm not going to China. =)


So he's got a lot of cool stuff, but we'll have to wait for it. He said that I might not get an answer from Sahin Ersoz (who animated that One Eye Dancer earlier in the thread) ... Ersoz has some bad memories connected with this film. Jerry didn't elaborate.

Here's a conversation where Jerry discusses something that a certain other person who worked on the film has also discussed - the bootlegging of the workprint. Here's how it happened! And they bootlegged a lot more than the workprint - all kinds of test footage, like the stuff that a certain fellow sent to me.

JV: there where four of us who collected a lot of the stuff from the movie, the other three got all the umatic tapes that the studio didnt take. all the line tests and film edits

GG: who were the four?

JV: i cant remember there names. sorry

GG: and what was the stuff collected?

JV: all the line tests and edit cuts of the movie on the original umatics. they are in london still somewhere. we collected the stuff because we wanted to one day restore the film. if you can get gary dunn he might know where those tapes are.

GG: it was stuff besides the workprint too, right?

JV: yes all line tests tapes. i was lucky i worked for him. all i am is because of him. (taught by) the best in animation and film. richard gave me the best start i could ask for, and then the industry tsught me the rest. tom sito introduced me to a lot of the old guys of animation, and dreamworks introduced me to alot of the old guys in film ...

i know most of the people you have emails from. i worked with them. cool. i love this movie very much, well the original one anyway. and i really hope you can get it together, and do it justice. it was a very special movie with a special director in charge. i really hope you understand who richard williams is and how he thought and worked, or you can not do the film justice. his teachings to me, and the discusions we had has influenced me greatly with my own films and projects. i am directing now and how i work and create is heavily influenced from thoughs days. richard williams gave me my brake, and it was not because i could animate or draw, i couldnt then at all, but it was because he and i are both self taught and love this industry in all its posibilities. that was most of the conversations we would have when he had time. and this film was prove of that. just please keep that spirit of the movie. this is a very special movie and working on it was a special experience.


------





It's funny. As I was talking to him, I was actually animating. This film has inspired me to take up animating again - and the last time I did any major animation (for Squiffy the Derelict Cat), it was right after reading The Animator's Survival Kit, so Richard's always been the inspiration. =)

I was animating a punk rock girl screaming and talking, for my pilot Dance With Grandpa. I was just screwing around, doing it all straight ahead with a Sharpie, one image on top of the other, and it didn't have to be any good ...

But it actually came out quite nice - entirely due to suppressed Williams influence I think. I was thinking of Yumyum laughing at Zigzag in the throne room as I did it, and random comments from the Animator's Survival Kit running through my head.

Quite pleasing.
Post
#195296
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195296/action/topic#195296
Time

>>When Zig-Zag swats him with the flyswatter, you can make out "ow, my ass!" as if it was being squawked.

My my ... never noticed that.

>>Also, in the bath scene, the shots from behind are clearly "mirrored" while frontal shots have "Mee-Mee"

Or "Jasmine" as Disney calls her. =)

>>There's a continuity problem, too... when the Thief takes the slipper from Tack, you can see the broken pipe in the window. Calvert forgot to add that!

I think my edit rather fixes that continuity problem. =)

>>When Zig-Zag is going through his "milk and honeyed land" speech, there's some music underneath it... which actually fades into the orchestral work during the flyover.

Won't be in my edit though.


>>Throughout the whole scene with Zig-Zag in Mighty One-Eye's tent, you can hear drums beating.

Noticed that.

>>You can hear all the fine echo within palace scenes... the reverb lasts about a second after speaking.

Had to be careful with the audio editing here.

>And I just noticed the fake soda ads behind the multi-lingual Buddha signs.... "Drink Karma-Kola" and "7thHeaven"

Ha!
Post
#195217
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195217/action/topic#195217
Time
Calvert had a lot more finished pencil animation to work from than is visible in any of the workprints.

After checking even Calvert's own workprint, a quick scan of Arabian Knight shows several shots that are clearly Williams work that don't appear there.


> It looks like the Tack/Zig-Zag fight doesn't belong after all

Yeah, I covered that earlier. But because it breaks up the Thief's adventures, it's hard to bring myself to cut it.
Post
#195095
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195095/action/topic#195095
Time
I contacted him. He kept a scrapbook, artwork, and a late-copied workprint VHS tape from the original U-Matic. Of which more later.


Williams probably didn't destroy anything, but the people in Korea did ... sadly. He says in his book that Roy Naisbitt (his longtime assistant) encouraged him to keep a lot of stuff he would otherwise have destroyed.


Here is Erik Northfell's cover for The Thief .... we figured it would make a good cover for the workprint ... which will shortly be available in Erik's version anyway ...

http://orangecow.org/thief/ThiefWorkprintCover-ErikNorthfell.png
Post
#195082
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195082/action/topic#195082
Time
I know what they did to Doctor Who. =) Quite interesting what they did, but no, it doesn't apply here - Erik's version is better in general, soft or no.

And yes, I'm comparing it to my best copy, which is the one Stanch recently sent.

If I was to compare it to the old copies, you'd puke.



I've gotten in touch with Jerry Verschoor, who worked on the film. He has a lot of love for it - he saved a lot of material from it, and it's been a dream of his to see the true version of this film restored. He says hi to anyone who worked on the film who might secretly be reading.

More news soon. =)
Post
#195051
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195051/action/topic#195051
Time

More comparisons. As you can see, Stanch's version is sharper, so you see more detail on, say, the witch's knees, but Erik's version has much better color density and shows much more detail in the whites and darks which is lost in Stanch's version - which looks hideous by comparison! I'm hoping that Erik's version can be sharpened by Chris' restoration, but Erik's will mix in better with the Miramax cut, obviously. On most of these shots, there's no comparison.

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen10.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen10a.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen9.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen9a.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen5.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen5a.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen6.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen6a.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen7.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen7a.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen8.png

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen8a.jpg

Post
#195014
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195014/action/topic#195014
Time
Hmm, this workprint copy that Erik Northfell found is rather soft and yellow, but it has a very "first generation" look to it. The colors are very accurate to what they should be anyway.

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen1.png
http://orangecow.org/thief/screen3.png

Just like the look of it.

Compare this to the workprint from Stanch. (At bottom.)

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen2.png
http://orangecow.org/thief/nodspeech1.jpg

http://orangecow.org/thief/screen4.png
http://orangecow.org/thief/nodspeech2.jpg

I give Erik's (at top) the edge. Some detail in the whites seems lost in the Stanch copy, and although Erik's copy is soft it really looks like the Miramax version ...

Note also the crud around the edges in the Stanch version (at top), the sign of a multi generation dub. None of that is present in the Northfell copy.


I think we have a winner!

The edit will be completed with the Erik Northfell workprint - it looks gorgeous.

I'll send it to Chris Boniface for restoration.
Post
#194923
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194923/action/topic#194923
Time
At the moment I'm watching Disney's Aladdin for the first time in years - revisiting some very happy memories from my childhood. A great Disney film, and they rip off The Thief and the Cobbler a lot more times than I ever noticed before - even down to some Zigzag/Jafar dialogue. (Also an unusual amount of lead animators who also worked with Richard on The Thief and elsewhere, but you knew that.) I'm taking notes, because if I can clear the hard drive space this would make a fun comparison video.

I've clearly been spoiled by The Thief, because as good as Disney-quality animation was at this point (and it is quite good) you can see where corners were cut, or where they couldn't quite get the figures to move through 3D space the same way the flying carpet did. Still, a nice study in human anatomy courtesy of Glen Keane on Aladdin and whoever did Jasmine.


At the time, I recall Disney promoting the film by quoting a critic who said "There ain't never been a film like this."

Major irony.


CURRENT STATUS OF THIS CUT - I'm expecting the Boniface (Faceman) restorations of the Miramax cut and other material to come in in the next couple days, hopefully he sent them already yesterday.

When those come in I'll replace all the Miramax material with this restored version.

If Erik's emule version of the workprint turns out to be the best one, I'll go ahead with that and not wait for Stanch's copy.
Post
#194883
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194883/action/topic#194883
Time
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/2876/tackturnaroundlarge6rx.gif

We've hit Youtube ... I've spotted a bootleg version of my trailer, and clips from my old cut of the movie - and a large part of the workprint! - there .... Well, bootlegging is the sincerest form of flattery ...

Incidentally the version of the workprint at Youtube is unusually good quality. Looks as good as my best copy ... at least. I wonder who posted it. I'll contact them ...

EDIT:
Oh! It was posted by Erik Northfell who's been doing some cover art for this project recently. He got it off emule. The colors are good, so I'd like to compare it ...
Post
#194873
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194873/action/topic#194873
Time
Here's a bit of animation of a One Eye Belly Dancer, by Sahin Ersoz.

http://www.ersoz.com/Flash/DancerBW_JPG.swf

This is glimpsed during the pull-out from Zigzag's eye to One Eye's, but you can see much more full animation in here. I definitely recognize the motion seen at the very end.

http://www.ersoz.com/thumbnails/DancerAnim2.gif

A layout drawing for the same scene, also by Sahin Ersoz.
http://www.ersoz.com/layout/images/Thief_Layout.jpg


Probably the best shot in the film, this.