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ocpmovie

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Post
#195668
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
Blah.



Heh - I already have the official Princess and the Cobbler DVD - I spent good money on it much much earlier in the thread. =) Awful cover and all.


It's good to have The Princess and the Cobbler on DVD ... certainly came in handy in this edit.


And as for free DVDs - clearly I'm running myself broke doing this edit as is! =D Spending money on terrible posters of obscure edits of the film ...


Hey klokwerk, how about you watch this auction and then bid one dollar more than me when it's almost finished?

That'll save about 7 bucks.



I'll pay you back in DVD form. =D





It's weird to be talking about The Thief and Raggedy Ann at 5:32 AM. This shows what my life is right now. Heh. On a weird sleeping schedule but I'm faking that it isn't since I'm recording actresses for my animated projects ... sleepy.
Post
#195664
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
I should have let one of you Australian people order the poster. Shipping woulda been 8 bucks cheaper ...

Here's the Princess and the Cobbler VHS cover, which is significantly less idiotic looking than the DVD - although still idiotic (and suggesting it's an Aladdin clone).

http://geocities.com/austnorm/vidprincesscobbler.jpg
http://geocities.com/austnorm/vidprincesscobbler.jpg

At least it gets the voice cast right (Bobbi Page, Steve Lively) and includes 4 Williams images with two Calvert ones .... the DVD, written by a moron, seems to think that Matthew Broderick is in this version, and that it was overwritten by the "Completion Board" (Bond) company ....
Post
#195661
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
Yeah, that's a custom cover.


And yep! That's the exact horrible cover that my copy of The Princess and the Cobbler has. =)

The original video release cover used the same art, but in a better layout, you could see the Thief and alligators better.

EDIT: Oh! Wow, yeah, that poster! That's the best version of that (horrible) artwork I've seen, and that IS Fred Calvert's real typeface. Would love to have that poster.

EDIT EDIT: The most notable thing about that poster is that it still uses the original Williams font for "Cobbler," which would be VERY handy if it could be scanned. I don't remember what font the VHS used but I don't think it was the real one.

It's kinda worth bidding on. I'll do so. I've bought dumb crap for this project before.

Also: really funny, the guy who posted this got his info from IMDB, which thanks to Ogg now lists the original voice cast. So he's posted saying that Sean Connery, Hilary Pritchard and Felix Aylmer are voices in the movie!

If only ...


EDIT EDIT EDIT: I've bid on it, but SHIT, this was a ripoff. The guy is charging 8 bucks for the poster, but 16.50 for SHIPPING. Asshole. Oh well. I spend so you don't have to.



Over at Myspleen, Ghosthost has pointed out that the pan & scan VHS version of Raggedy Ann & Andy that I have is actually slightly compressed horizontally - and should be stretched out slightly.

The opening should have a ratio of 720 x 480, the opening and closing titles stretch out to anamorphic ratio (720 x 414) and the rest of the film has a ratio of about 700 x 480. Pretty close to 4x3, but not quite.

Doing a transfer that respects this would help the film seem less cramped in pan & scan. Of course if you're doing that kind of work on the transfer you'd also convert it to 24p.


Raggedy Ann & Andy doesn't deserve this treatment really -- and I'm way too busy with The Thief to do it - my hard drive is FULL and will remain so for some time ...


But if I ever do a doc about The Thief, I'd definitely include any clips from Raggedy Ann treated thusly. Color corrected to.
Post
#195658
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
You're right Tweaker, according to Netflix, the rerelease is a 2.0. It also has a French track. I had seen this before which is why I never rented it. I guess I was just being wishful and not thinking about that.


I wonder, though. The Froot Loops release is really noted for having a 5.1 in that review.


Hmmmmmmmmm.



The Froot Loops DVDs used to be common and cheap on Ebay, but no longer. I only see one, and that's in a big lot of other crap.


If anyone has the Froot Loops DVD, lemme know.
Post
#195657
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
The page has since been taken down, but thanks to Google caching, I found this review of the Froot Loops DVD.

Languages: English (Dolby 5.1), French (Dolby 5.1)

You can tell that we’re entering a new millenium when the cereal giveaway has been upgraded from some cheap plastic doo-hickey (that can’t be put together or breaks upon contact) to a bonafide flick on a DVD. Yes, this DVD, “The Thief And The Cobbler” can be found in specially marked boxes of Froot Loops (425g box, no variety packs).
I crap you negative. There’s no mistake. Canadian Alliance Atlantis and Kellogg’s have exclusively presented four different movies in four different cereals. You can find “Air Bud” in Frosted Flakes, “Air Bud: Golden Receiver” in Corn Pops, and “Babar: King Of The Elephants” in Rice Krispies. All films are presented in a standard aspect ratio of 1.33:1. This one was originally a widescreen film, is also known as “Arabian Knight”, and has Dolby Digital 5.1. Can you believe it?

~ Kyle Milligan


Clicky Clicky, this'll be gone from the cache soon!




Talking about Raggedy Ann & Andy on Myspleen:


I'd be curious what segments in this film Richard Williams actually animated.

I know that he did Raggedy Andy singing "No Girl's Toy" - which is a really great piece of animation done on ones with a moving camera, and looks out of place with the awful animation seen in a lot of this film!


On close inspection, you can actually see that some guy was manning the pan & scan machine to crush the widescreen image for the titles - it subtly crushes inward as the titles start, in a way that's done by hand. Then he dials it back out again.

It actually becomes perfectly anamorphic for the titles only. (Sigh) If only ...
Post
#195651
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
A fullscreen DVD of the Miramax cut of The Thief and the Cobbler (Arabian Knight).


This is how the Thief was actually released on DVD, back in 2001 - on boxes of Froot Loops in Canada only. Also released the same way were Air Bud 2 and a Babar film.

(Sad, isn't it - how Disney treated this film ...)

It wasn't properly released on DVD in the US until a couple years later - the US disc is also the Miramax cut and is fullscreen.


I never looked at this release of the movie, but I've now read that the Froot Loops disc had a 5.1 sound mix on it, and I assume that the recent rerelease has one too.

This could be VERY helpful.

A major annoyance with doing this edit is that when I cut to the nicer-quality audio from the Princess version, I have to accept the music and sound effects that go along with it, and add music to my edit to match.

If I can separate out just the center track of a 5.1 mix, I might be able to just get Zigzag's lines etc in isolation, which would be marvelous.

So I'm Netflixing it right away (my most recent Netflix have been Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Aladdin and The Thief, so I guess you can tell where my head's at) ...

If it's just a 2.0 on the rerelease I'll be sad.
Post
#195649
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
Incidentally:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000015KC/102-5512478-7160162?v=glance&n=5174

The normal price for a copy of Robert Folk's Arabian Knight soundtrack, on CD, is twenty-five cents.



Ha!



Off-model Zigzag on a Canadian box of Froot Loops. I wish I had one of these boxes actually.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:kEDYOzxGVW0icM:www.toldyouso.net/images/CoverArt/1860.gif

It's like Toucan Sam has taken the place of Phido.

"Here's your breakfast, Phido dear! You can eat it up - right here!"
Post
#195615
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
The Emule AVI is as good as we're gonna get. The source of it is unknown.



I could ignore continuity on falling into the hole. The main reason for keeping the Zigzag/Tack fight was stubbornness and the fact that I like some of it.


Also, frankly the film needs SOMETHING to break up the Thief material at the end. The workprint's attempt to keep Tack and Yumyum in the picture was halfhearted at best. There are several places where the Thief material stops for a little break, and it's clear that the workprint wants to go to something else at that point, but there isn't much to go to.


I'll see.
Post
#195601
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
Yeah, I'm thinking of cutting the Zigzag fight and the Thief being hailed on high by the palace guards. We'll see.

Frankly there will always be a few Calvert inventions in there.




And the new workprint is the greatest thing ever. Hope that answers your question.


When Yumyum asks, "Where can my cobbler be?" I can finally see the wind-waving flowers that are the only thing animated in the scene - these were in the Camera Test Reel that Our Source donated, and I wondered what shot that was from.

All hail the Emule workprint. Can't wait for a Boniface cleanup of it.

Interestingly, it's missing a few seconds at the beginning ... not that that matters, but it is.


This great clarity gives me a few more ideas for how to do the opening shot. I could use a lot of this workprint's version since it's so nice and shows some really hypnotic motion, but I probably won't since it's mostly pencils.

Because the workprint has no true 3:2 pulldown, they seem to have "smudged" the deinterlacing slightly from one frame to the next, which is also exactly what I did with mine, except mine didn't look 1/10th this good.

Oh, wait ... I think this version was like that to begin with or something. It's remained at 25 frames per second, the PAL standard. No, they probably did deinterlace it though. Hm.

I think the fact that it's PAL explains the artifacts on the yellows. PAL loves the color yellow, doesn't it? - it can make yellows overly bright. Thought I read that somewhere.


That first pencil test shot of Tack looks great now. I'd rather like to use it.



And Patrick is right - from behind there's a mirror next to Yumyum in the bath, from the front you see MeeMee instead. Strange. Also, in the second to last shot, Meemee seems to have put on a lot of weight.

(I kind of think it's Meemee delivering the last Yumyum line - "Maybe something died.")


This transfer was done recently on professional equipment - older professional equipment though. There's a "dropout" in the Thief stealing Yumyum's shoe which is not so much a dropout as an offlock and picture roll, looking like an old-style error well handled by newer equipment.


There are a few shots early in the war machine sequence where I always thought, what the hell IS that? Because it was just garbage in my copies. It is what I thought it was - a second, very dark shot of One Eye soldiers being lifted into position. Looks nice now.


Another dropout in the Maiden from Mombassa - fixable.

Lot of pops and screwups in the sound. This'll take some work. Fixable.


The sound level drops down to nothing in the exact same place it does on every other copy of the workprint I've ever seen ...

"Yes Roofless, you stay here!"


But the sound is so clear that for the first time ever, I can actually make out Hilary Pritchard's delivery of this line. I don't know if I can use it, but I can certainly try to clean it up and use it.
Post
#195574
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
It's hard to draw the line as far as Williams only. There's a lot of stuff which was actually inked and colored and shot by Calvert's team, which only the trained eye could tell isn't Williams. I KNOW that when Zigzag says "Their soldiers will cower behind these walls" that Calvert inked and colored it, and I could care less.


What I can do is cut out THAT fight, or make it removable via seamless branching.



If people want a Williams only cut, well, we've got a damn good workprint, and that's exactly the cut! That's Williams only ... there are only a few more shots that I can prove are all Williams which aren't in that cut.




Chris Boniface has sent me his restorations, and Erik Northfell has sent me the anonymous emule workprint! I just got them. Oh, it's a good day.

I won't start the final cut until Chris has tackled the Emule workprint though.
Post
#195564
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
That's remarkable.


The first shot is the one I've been looking forward to seeing most --

There's a shot in there where the entire Golden City is shown, and it turns around 360 degrees in perspective and moves up to the minaret - it's really tiny, and you can't see what's going on in any copy of the workprint. I'm hoping it can finally be seen here.

I've gotten in touch with Alex Williams - Richard's son and a major animator himself - noted for Scar in the Lion King and Tack in The Thief. He wants to see this cut - he notes that Richard himself won't want to see it though, as Richard no longer discusses this film, for obvious personal reasons.

Okay, maybe not quite so obvious as surely very complicated and painful, but I'll be respectful of that.

I also have Roy Naisbitt's (Richard's longtime assistant) old phone number, but I'm scared to call it.

I've also gotten in touch with Andreas Wessel-Therhorn, an animator on the film who tells this story ... the sad story of Richard's obsession and the demise of the Thief. A story we've heard before, but he tells it particularly well.

Andreas Wessel-Therhorn writes:


well where to begin. thief was my very first job in animation. a friend, art director Hans Bacher, pointed me and my friend from college towards Dick williams and that he was hiring young animators. He actually hired two other german guys just before. we booked a flight to london and met with dick, which was very exciting. The production was still based at Dicks studio in Camden town in Royal college street. We showed him our college film and portfolios and he offerend us jobs as animating assistants. we moved to london a few weeks later, sharing a house with the other german artists.we were all promoted to animators 6 months later.
dick was upstairs in a room working and playing the trumpet. he was encouraging and he made us want to work hard to finish the movie. our normal workweek became 56 hours, not much time for anything else.the frustrating part was though, that we never seem to get anywhere near a finished movie. as the crew expanded, more complicated scenes were added and few storytelling scenes were animated. there was no story reel or storyboard of the movie.it was all in Dicks head and we got glimpses of what this movie could be. to say that the movie was unfairly closed down is somewhat revisionist and not quite accurate. At that time in the early 90s, when the film went into full production, it had its best shot at actually being finalized. Yet Dick, the motor behind everything that got created, was also its biggest roadblock. He loved the process of making this movie and i often wondered if deep down, he never quite wanted to finish it. it was so long in various stages of production and it became a legend before ever seeing a movie screen... one has to wonder if there was a certain fear of not living up to the hype. in an ideal world, someone would have given him unlimited resources to work on it as long as he needed. in the real world, real investors quite reasonably want to see a product they can sell. It always struck me as odd that the big warner executives seem to be so happy with the 'progress', when essentially they kept seeing more or less the same footage, never wondering how it might all tie together. when after nearly 2 years of full production there was no film, they sent in Dan Rounds to determine, how much of the script was actually finished and when they might expect a movie they could release. they also forced Dick to storyboard the entire movie, so they could get an idea how it played. This was kind of the beginning of the end. Dick really did not want to storyboard the film, as he would loose control of his vision. in one of the most amazing feats in animation i have ever seen, he almost singlehandedly storyboarded the movie in 2 weeks, and these board panels were amazing works of layout and character art. absolutely astounding. finally, there was a big screening for the entire crew at the Bafta headquarters in piccadilly. everyone was excited. Dick got up to hold a speech, thanking everyone for their hard work and promising, that we would all be very proud of this movie. well, the screening ran and it became very clear to everyone there that despite some amazing animation and design work, there was no movie that engaged anyone. what should have been a giant morale booster turned into the exact opposite. well, shortly after we came to work one morning and we were informd that by the end of the day, the production would shut down. then, after we had a very depressing lunchbreak, we were told that we had to vacate the building immediately. there was utter pandemonium. people were running around trying to take whatever artwork they had, home. the personal stuff of 2 years had to be moved. in in the middle of all this chaos, there was dick williams, animating a scene. It was heartbreaking. i, like many others, couldnt help but shed tears.
Maybe this movie will be best remembered as the movie that never was...
Though Richard Williams is, like many great artists, not the easiest person in the world and can go from mild to mad in 10 seconds flat, i have nothing but respect for this man. He gave plenty of animators their first shot in this business, sharing his knowledge freely and generously and on a project that, though it may not have lived up to its potential in the end, was driven not by merchandize or a market trend, but by the pure artistic vision of a remarkable man.and thats something i will always cherish.
Andreas
Post
#195505
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
(I had to tweak that last screenshot just to get anything visible out of it.)

"I think my eyes are getting better. Instead of a big dark blur, I see a big light blur."



And that, my friend, is why I'm not bitching about a couple of interlacing/compression artifacts that only show up when you Photoshop the image. =)


When I was starting this edit, that copy you see there was the one I was honestly looking at. That's what you could have had on DVD.


I'm very grateful for what we've now got.



PS Ogg - more screenshots please, since you have this and I don't. =)
Post
#195503
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
It occurs to me that there is one member of the voice cast who is still alive.



Here's a hint - he played James Bond.



I doubt that anyone here is CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDS CHUM with ole S.C., but just sayin'.


If Disney ever did a real restoration, they could probably get him for 2 seconds for an interview. =)



"Was I in that? 40 years ago? I had one line? Jeez ..."





" ... Well, it's quite pretty actually. This never came out? They replaced me with Matthew Broderick? What?"




Windsor Davies, Chief Roofless, is also still alive at age 75, according to IMDB. I've emailed his agency. I've also emailed Alex Williams at two addresses, so we'll see how that goes.
Post
#195493
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time

Hey everybody - an announcement -

Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure is on Myspleen!

Thanks to Chris Sobieniak, a scholar and a gentleman, who has put it up there as a torrent.

Info: Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure dates from 1977. It was directed by Richard Williams, and is a bizarre and surreal adventure starring the popular dolls created by Johnny Gruelle. The film looks very "70s" and cheap and hasn't aged well. The animation ranges from good to quite bad - it was a rush job. It's a bad movie by movie standards, no doubt about it, but it's weirdly hypnotic and contains some very nice moments. Some of the songs will stick in your head. Warning. You probably remember this from when you were a kid. I certainly do, and I definitely enjoyed seeing it again.
Post
#195432
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
Damn! Great find.


"Oh my god! My daughter!"

"Faster you fools! Faster!"

I don't think there's any major place in the cut where that track is used with no voices on it though, so I probably won't be using it for anything important.

Good to have though!



I had a look for The Thief on Emule, and I see two different versions there. Neither is downloading to me right now tho'.

Well, I'm getting it in the mail anyway.

Still, check it out people if you do Emule, at least one of those is the good clear version of the workprint.
Post
#195395
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Time
I guess I need help on this, because VHS rentals are getting scarcer, especially for crap movies ....

Anyone reading who wants to help, could ya have a look in your local video shop for a VHS of The Princess and the Goblin? Someone mentioned on a board somewhere that a Thief promo was found on one of the VHSes of this. It would have to be
different from the "Knight" trailer as it would probably be pan & scan and have the "Thief" title, at the very least.

Also:

If anyone has it in their DVD collection, could someone get me a video or even just audio file of Robin Williams saying "Good morning, Vietnam!" from the movie of the same title?

No rush.

It's for an Aladdin comparison if I ever do one!