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ocpmovie

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Post
#209150
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209150/action/topic#209150
Time
May 9, 2006:

If this is going to be a contender for the best fan DVD out there, I might as well pack it with special features.

Features:
- A Conversation with Roy Naisbitt
- A Conversation with Alex Williams
- Image Gallery
- Recobbled Cut Trailer
- Arabian Knight Trailer
- Restoration commentary by Garrett Gilchrist and probably Patrick McCart
"Deleted Characters" section featuring:
- Enchanted Prince Bubba: Witch sequence
- Princess Meemee - Bath sequence
- Mullah Nasruddin: Bread sequence
- Animated menus featuring pencil tests from the original film


Yes, the main menu is done entirely as pencil tests. I had considered doing what I did with the rough cut, which was to make the menu a trailer for the film, but I thought that it was more interesting to give people a different view of the film.

Chapters menu features the Thief flying over it.
Special Features menu features the Thief and some bubbles.
Deleted Characters menu features The Thief and a sleeping Tack.


The "Deleted Characters" short segments will feature new narration and footage that you haven't heard/seen - promise. I was hoping that I'd have the entire Nasruddin bread sequence (which is supposed to be in One Pair of Eyes) by now, but ***** isn't returning my messages at the moment. So I have to improvise with the segment of it that's in The Creative Person. Oh well.


Definitive tracklisting for the curious. Based it on the Youtube chapters.

1: An Outward and Visible Dream
2: Zigzag, Yumyum and King Nod
3: Getting to Know You
4. Bath and Staircase Chase
5. Polo Game
6: One Eye, Phido and a White Fur Rug
7: A Nightmare! A Vision of Invasion!
8: Thief Gets The Balls
9: The Balls are Gone!
10: Speech and Hand Chop
11: Proposal/A Quest/The Brigands
12: Brigands Attack/Zigzag and One Eye
13: Climbing the Desert Mountain
14: Mad and Holy Old Witch
15: March of the One Eyes
16: The Thief in the War Machine
17: Happy Ending 18: Credits



Possibilities to show for the second Williams evening.

- Recobbled Cut
- A Christmas Carol
- Charge of the Light Brigade
- Raggedy Ann: No Girl's Toy
- The Creative Person
- Liquidator Titles
- Pink Panther titles
- Raggedy Ann: Blue
- Commercial reel plus Globetrotter and Pink Panther ads
- Animating Art
- RW and the Thief Who Never Gave Up
- "Deleted Characters" from Recobbled disc
- Clapperboard 1+2 maybe
- I Drew Roger Rabbit
- Arabian Knight trailer
- Recobbled trailer
- Princess & the Cobbler songs: "She is More," "Am I Feeling Love?", "Beem Bom," "It's So Amazing"
- Roger Rabbit trailer
- Behind the Ears?
- Raggedy Ann: "Sweet Heart"
- Raggedy Ann: Windsor McCay staircase
- "Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" titles?

What I WANT to include but can't right now, but maybe by the time this airs some of it will have come in:
- Roger Rabbit and the Secrets of Toon Town
- One Pair of Eyes clip
- Warner Bros. Trailer
- The REAL Dick Williams commercials reel

Post
#209149
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209149/action/topic#209149
Time
I come back to you now, at the turning of the tide.

A lot of unkind and untrue things have been said about me while I was away, and I have no comment on any of them as that will only provoke people further.

This is not the place for a discussion of such things. If you have something to say to me, you can say it to my face, or take it into the Star Wars forum. This thread is about The Thief and the Cobbler.



I've been providing regular updates at SomethingAwful in the thread there. For those who missed them, let me fill you in.


The DVD is now complete. You can write me at [address removed] for more information.



Let us go back in time now one week. Here are the updates from the Somethingawful thread, in chronological order.



MAY 8, 2006:
The edit is complete now as far as I know. I don't rule out that I might find some small things in it to fix yet, but I'm currently calling it done. I'm rendering out the last few shots of part 2 now ... for some reason it says it's going to take 6 hours even though it's just a few shots. Not sure why.


... Make that 7 hours. And it's been rendering for an hour now. Oh well.


I have to create the animated menus now, which will all be very Thief in style. You'll see. Creating menus is always annoying because you're creating them before the structure of the DVD is really set, and they often have to be changed later once you decide, oh, we don't really need that feature or that, and the chapter listing is different etc.


The Kenneth Williams website has sent me the full audio of Richard Williams' abandoned 1963 animated film "Diary of a Madman" starring Kenneth Williams. A very ambitious almost feature-length project which Williams never animated, it was aired more recently as a BBC radio play.

I haven't actually listened to it apart from a few seconds ... I can't take THAT much of Kenneth Williams being fey.

WHAT I DID YESTERDAY


At the last minute, I had to make some music changes as well as redo entirely any sequence I had taken from the Princess and the Cobbler credits (Thief up a tree, Thief still has his hands, Thief in airplane). I must say they look good now, but it was a lot of work and a lot of rendering. I had to redraw a lot of mattes and generally spend more time on this than I should have.

At the last minute, I also went and replaced every shot in the first part of the film with a version reedited to remove color artifacts ... as I had done with the second half of the film a long time ago. Basically I had two files of every chapter of the film from the Japanese DVD ... one had nice clean color but problems with interlacing which showed up every four frames, and the other had no interlacing problems but had some blocky color artifacts with very saturated colors (especially red).

In both parts, I went in and cut out every fourth frame of the first version, and replaced them with frames from the second version. The result is a version which looks good, has no color artifacts and if there's any blockiness it only shows up every four frames, and is thus almost invisible.

I did this for the entire movie, which was a lot of copying and pasting. It's hard to explain but it does look good.


I've redone all the end credits for the film. I have a much longer list of people to thank now, and sorry to anyone I've forgotten. Anyone from the original crew (or who knew Richard) is listed as just their initials, which I thought was best to avoid naming anyone who didn't want to be named! The film is now dedicated to Richard at the end.

Credits now roll over music by Ralph Vaughan Williams and Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov rather than Robert Folk. You'll be hearing a lot more from those composers in this edit. Folk's music is still used where I was using material from Princess, or just liked a Folk track better than any other ideas I had.

The last edits I did were adding Korsakov music to the Thief in the war machine, and using a CD quality version of Scheherezade for most of the Thief going after the balls on the minaret.


Now it's on to rendering the whole thing out as a DVD. That'll take some time ....





ADDENDUM: Added back more of the Tack/Zigzag fight. It was too confusing the way I'd cut it down. I think what people are objecting to most is Tack punching and kicking Zigzag, so I just cut it so that Zigzag is attacking Tack, and Tack ties him up. Violence done to an innocent, which is punished ... always works psychologically. Anyway, it's very short now but makes sense.

I played with where One Eye's death should fall in the film, and I'd originally put it very early, but I know that that deflates what tension there's supposed to be. I wanted it to break up a very long Thief sequence, so what I did was actually break up the long Thief sequence further - I stop the long Thief sequence in the middle, kill One Eye, then return to it. So it's literally breaking up the Thief sequence!

Post
#207225
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207225/action/topic#207225
Time
For the past few days I have been receiving messages from people involved in the XO Project. They range from annoying to threatening. I feel it's safe to question the motivation of these messages at this point.


I will restrict myself now to posting only what Zion, one man, has posted in the past two minutes.

While removing all my messages from the XO Project thread.


I will refrain from replying to this or commenting on it, and simply let it stand on its own.




Spam your own thread all you want. It doesn't belong here.

Keep this pissing contest in your own thread.


Oh my God! You're absolutely right! We should just give up on everything we've worked on because ocp says it's dumb!


OCP - If you continue to turn this whole forum into your own battleground of pre-teen ranting and evangelical raving, you will no longer be welcome on this site.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't mean this thread is going to turn into a debate on the validity of working with laserdisc footage as a base.

Quite frankly, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE OUR PROJECT?! If you hate what we're doing so much then get out of this thread.


Look, you've given us your opinion, and we can all respect that and deal with your viewpoint. However, the X0 Project thread is not your battleground to convince people that laserdisc is pointless. So keep it in your other thread. This is your last warning.

Post
#207215
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207215/action/topic#207215
Time
Pt. 15. At long last, we reach the epic climax of the film, as the One Eye War Machine marches on the Golden City. Can Tack save the city from destruction and death?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRDVencOkc8




The sound in the war machine sequence (and entire ending) in the Emule workprint is very distorted - it was transferred too loud, and the quality suffers greatly because of it. It's sad to have to go back to the sound on the Stanch workprint for this, but I have no other choice. I am only using the Emule workprint for a few sequences, mostly small bits of dialogue.


I just realized I screwed up the color correcting on the end credits, so I have to redo that now.
Post
#207185
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207185/action/topic#207185
Time
>> created the term in the title of this thread, and now that it's out there, we're not suppost to use it or expand upon it... boo

It's not that, I was just confused with the way you were using it. If I'm confused, then this is gonna get confusing for others pretty quick! The term "non-LID" doesn't work for me. Use normal words.

Anyway.

>>So is this "Laserdisc is dead" is like "Rock'nRoll is dead" or "Elvis is dead" or "James Brown is Dead" or "George Lucas's creativity (which raped my childhood) is dead as a doorknob"... etc.

No, those are depressing concepts. =D The Star Wars laserdisc being "dead" makes us all happy .... that we'll have it in better quality.

>> Now will a 1080 (i or p) version of the OT make the DVD dead too?

=D If it's a good one and not just upsampled. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.


It's a brave new world, folks. The O-OT in pristine quality, to be had by anyone.


The question posed by this thread is: What can we do with it? What do we do with Star Wars now?


Mike Verta had the right idea. The 2004 DVD, despite its quality, wasn't cutting it for him because of the color correction. So he fixed that. The 2006 DVDs might not cut it for some of us either - we want even clearer quality, which might require going back to the 2004 DVD and correcting that for much of the film. We want mono mix. We want 70mm/SE mix on Empire ... we want this trilogy tricked out like a gangsta yo.

Or maybe we just want to get on with our lives and enjoy our 2006 DVDs in peace.


Either way works for me.
Post
#207177
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207177/action/topic#207177
Time
Karyudo, MebeJedi:

"'Thank you' for your 'intelligent contributions' to this 'thread'." - ocpmovie



It's sad that we don't have the 6-track mix, yes. And we still won't. Oh well. I'm very fond of the mono mix as well, and made a point of using the most interesting bits from it in my cut. I would like to see that done again here. Not a complete mono mix, as we don't have it any any worthwhile quality, but the interesting bits.


The best mono mix currently out there is from a British TV airing in the 80s. It's all right but not great.
Post
#207162
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207162/action/topic#207162
Time
Right ... so I edit your quotes to make them shorter but say the exact same thing.


And you edit my quotes to say the opposite of what I was saying.




Right ....


All right then.

"Laserdisc is better than DVD." - ocpmovie



Anyway, ignoring the "great debate" for a moment ...


What would you people like to see on your ideal Star Wars Original Trilogy release?


Lucas is giving us the basics .... what can we add to the pile?
Post
#207160
Topic
ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207160/action/topic#207160
Time
The material in the original edits that isn't in the special editions amounts to just a few minutes of effects shots. Even if the quality isn't anything amazing, it's certainly good enough for any fan editor to restore the film with in great quality.

And that's my worst case scenario.


This is great. This is Disneyland. This is great news. As other have said, I'm kind of sort of glad they're not doing a lot of remastering, as they'd just go overboard again. The 2004 DVDs take a lot of shit here which is undeserved, though - the clarity remains phenomenal.


You'll get nothing but happiness from me for now.


>> It's fully possible for this release to be what was hinted at by the OT (unaltered) scenes in Building Empire. Those few scenes, in my opinion, looked great.

I think you mean Empire of Dreams. Both equally good docs though.

>> The fact that they mention the original crawl for SW makes me wonder if they are using a theatrical master reel, since this would include the original crawl. However, as many here have demonstrated, it's not that hard to make your own crawl.

The original crawl was transferred for Empire of Dreams.

>> As far as complaints about 5.0 sound, was that capability even available when these films were released

Yes. That would be the 6-track 70mm mix. We're getting the 2-track 35mm mix. Lazy, but same as the lazier ... discs.


>> It is pretty lame that they took the Han Shoots First slogan, though - that's kind of like a cigarette company, in an attempt to be hip, making shirts for people that say, "Smoking Kills, Dude. Word. It's really <i>The Truth</i>."


Ha! Well put.

Post
#207137
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207137/action/topic#207137
Time
THE DEBATE CONTINUES

"The new DVDs will need a lot of work to look anything like the X0 Project LD transfer." - Zion

"The image of Greedo looks better from the X0 pic as does Shaw." - Knightmessenger

"stoppit ocpmovie!" - Hal 9000

"[image] How about a nice cup of shut the fuck up?" - PaulisDead2221

"You make some valid points, albeit in a cocky yet childish manner." - Zion, privately.

"Roll on September and the beginning of a whole wave of 'LaserDisc Is Dead' projects!" - pupil



None .... could you change your terminology, as it's weird. Don't say LID or non-LID. Say laserdisc, 2004 DVD, 2006 DVD. There, that's easy ...

Sup Doctor M!

>> Btw, the LID screenshots above, are they Classic Edition snaps or the the '04 discs newly color corrected/tweaked.

Newly color corrected. =) I wanted to put the XO project and the 2004 discs on the same playing field, by making them look roughly the same. If the laserdiscs really have some magical quality that makes them OT and not the 2004 DVDs, it shouldn't take two seconds to color correct them to look the same. Heh.

I wanted to show what was possible for future projects. This might springboard some discussion and ideas if the 2006 DVDs really do need any work put into them ... although I suspect they'll be damn good and watchable just as they are.

To compare them to my Classic Edition would be a bit lame as that was my first anamorphic film edit, and I've learned a lot since then. As you might have heard, I was planning a much better version of the Classic Edition, with significantly improved picture quality, before the announcement was made.



I wanted to dispel the harmful myth that the laserdiscs despite their quality have some magical O-OT quality that the Lucas DVDs don't. If we don't abandon laserdisc this site will never get anywhere. Cleaning up an old laserdisc frame by frame, you might as well be cleaning up frames on a VHS tape or Beta when you've got an HD master sitting right there.


I kind of like the idea of using the PAL DVDs. I wouldn't use the sped up sound from them, but the transfer has more resolution and could be fun to transfer to HD even.



And Grinder, let me be the first to say ... what?

"If you're going for the best quality, don't even think about buying the NTSC DVD's. ... any random VHS or LD transfer has more OT spirit than an ESE DVD with some desperate polishing applied to it." - Grinder

WHAT.


Did you say this before in the other thread about my edit? I thought it was Rikter but I guess it was you.

Okay, fine, let's all do our transfers from VHS and Beta from now on. Or Super-8. Any dead format.

=)



"SPIRIT" doesn't matter. "QUALITY" matters. Dead formats have no magical quality to them.



To paraphrase a fat man, that version is on VHS if anyone wants it ...


THE DEBATE CONTINUES AGAIN


"What on earth are you trying to prove?" - Gorram

"Only time will tell if what [Lucasfilm] put out will be any better [than the XO] ... there's no way LFL spent the time and money to clean up the film and resotre the original color like we are." - Zion

"There are only about 270 lines of movie data on a laserdisc ... The DVD captures on the other hand are anamorphic and have a TRUE height of 360 horizontal lines. ... Frankly if I were running the X0 project I'd go dark until September, saving time and money ... anything else is just plain crazy." - Doctor M

"OCP is being a mean-spirited jerk ... X0 headquarters is about as state-of-the-art as enthusiasts can get." - Karyudo
Post
#207019
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207019/action/topic#207019
Time
Well put, pupil.



>> What if the non-LID Project does not provide all the material in suitable quality to make the OT you remember? Does that make the non-LID-p a failure? Are there any SW moments which you think will not show up in the non-LID Project?


I'm not sure what you're saying here. By "non-LID Project," do you mean the 2006 DVDs? Let me assume you meant that and just said it in a really weird way.

>> What if the 2006 DVDs do not provide all the material in suitable quality to make the OT you remember? Are there any SW moments which you think will not show up in the 2006 DVD Project?

I believe the 2006 DVDs will have everything in 'em - lazy 1993 masters sounds fine to me - but just in case, we've got great LD transfers like Moth3r's on standby. Worked fine for the Classic Editions.

I really doubt anything will be missing from the 06 DVDs if that's what you mean.
Post
#206978
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206978/action/topic#206978
Time
Here's what people who know are saying about the LID project.


RAVE REVIEWS!


"That's stupid, then it just becomes a fan edit NOT a fan restoration." - Rikter

"Some people are apparently ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater." - MebeJedi

"I have more faith in the X0 Project than the Official release." - Patrick R.

" I have every reason to believe that [the XO project] will be just as good - if not better than those $30 DVDs coming out in September." - Zion

"Ocp [is] acting like such an ass ... The official DVDs are little better than VHS to DVD transfers." - C3PX

"So nice to finally see your true colors." - Mebejedi

"Like OCP said, DVD remixing is essentially the new frontier for the editors here." - The Bizzle

"George is giving us a High Quality Raw Capture of the OT, better than any LaserDisc player (even the sacred X0) could ever give us. The X0 Project (and everyone else's projects) will now have a much better master to work from to create a myriad of editions for us all to trade." - pupil

"If the detail smearing, caused by THX lab's 'dirt concealment' processing in the '90s, is present on these new DVDs, then we can have a go at combining the best aspects of both the 2004 and 2006 DVDs together to produce the ultimate restoration of the OOT." - Moth3r

"Thanks especially to ocpmovie. Until your Classic Editions came along, having the originals in DVD quality was nothing but a dream for me." - Lordjedi

[Re: Classic Editions] "Any random VHS or LD transfer has more OT spirit than an ESE DVD with some desperate polishing applied to it." - Grinder
Post
#206974
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206974/action/topic#206974
Time

In this thread, we rejoice and are happy that the complete O-OT is now coming out on official pristine DVD, and we don’t have to deal with blurry, crap looking laserdisc transfers anymore.

I love the laserdisc transfers - they kept the flame alive. I love every one of you who completed a laserdisc transfer, with particular props to Moth3r, Cowclops, Citizen, dark_jedi, Gkar, whoever did the TB set, Doctor M for his remix … oh the list goes on.

From now on, let’s concentrate on improving the 2004 and 2006 DVDs making them more O-OT friendly with more sound mixes and better color. Or just concentrate on enjoying the 2006 DVDs and getting on with our lives.

Let’s do a quick comparison between sourcing it from Lucas’ DVDs and sourcing it from laser … I call it the LID Project … LID stands for “Laserdisc is Dead.”

Enjoy, folks!

http://orangecow.org/starwars/xotantive.jpg
http://orangecow.org/starwars/lidtantive.jpg

http://orangecow.org/starwars/xobattle.jpg
http://orangecow.org/starwars/lidbattle.jpg

http://orangecow.org/starwars/xoskiff.jpg
http://orangecow.org/starwars/lidskiff.jpg

http://orangecow.org/starwars/xoshaw.jpg
http://orangecow.org/starwars/lidshaw.jpg

Conclusion: LID project wins. Laserdisc is dead. And I’m glad. We can see the OT in pristine quality.

What I’m really trying to do is to get this forum to stop looking back at the past and start looking at its own future. When an HD master of Star Wars shows up on some TV channel in a few months, we’re not gonna still be sourcing from laserdisc …

I’ll be posting more comparisons as I can find more XO screen grabs. =)

Laserdisc is dead - put a LID on it!