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Video_Collector wrote:  The Z version:

Below is the VHS being digitizing, was the typical VHS.  So the VHS is the full performance (-credits), and 'Z' used the beginning most likely.  Odd the right edge looks slightly cropped in the VHS but the left side is yet even more cropped in 'Z' if i'm seeing those far left two rocks below the white sand (middle frame).

A positive about the VHS_TP is it has more bottom frame then some of the official releases.  Go figure....

ESB_TP Notes

Completely neeto, to be able to look back at how this film once was.  Many sequences look fantastic, the Bespin escape of Leia/Chewie/Lando - R2 plugging-in is clear and vibrant, and even the video shifts can be entertaining.  
(for some reason went question crazy in this write up...and on rereading it's annoying)

On first listen thought ESB_TP sounded sped up, but then I start getting confused about the capture system.  If it was captured from a projection, with audio patched in, then it wouldn't have been sped up?  So one sign it is sped up is since it clocks in at 1:57, instead of 2:04.  Yes there are some cut parts but not enough to add up to much more beyond one minute.  So the telecine process is such that the frame interpolation results in the speed up, and the audio is forced to follow along?  If this was pirate market, wouldn't the projection capture be easier and result in no audio sped up, which would be preferred?  I guess the telecine offered up the best visual capture so that's the preferred method of the day.

Why would the British Censor Board placard be centered correctly but then the opening of the film not?  Were these attached directly to the print, or played through a different projection.  Is the off centered crawl a sign one way or the other of this being a telecine or capture from the projection on screen?  The on-the fly credit frame proportion change is probably a telecine sign, correct?

Love the video color shifts, only video can give off these weird corners of the rainbow.  The Star Destroyer which fades from grey to purple.  (which is similar to the clips from the ILM: Creating the Impossible doc.  Wonder if it's the same video tech behind this transfer and those internally produced clips)  The plummeting Probe Droid is also neeto coloring, looks like it's really entering the atmosphere.  and a later very Yellow Yoda.  Where would these color shifts most likely be introduced?  The telecine process (some automatic color adjustment) or in the first or second generation video transfer?  probably some every step of the way.

Lots of Home Made Cue markers in this one.  Sometimes occupying the same upper corner, other times less intrusive horizontal lines at the top or bottom of the screen.  And the home made cues are because of stuff like this:



Melting frame!  Seems like a well used print, especially the Reel on Dagobah with lots of yellow scratches and wear marks.  Here are some of some of the cuts: (please note others)

ESB_TP Cut Parts
16:22 Leia "scruffy-looking nerf herder!"  Han "Who's scruffy-lookin'?"
19:40 (Reel Change) Han welding
39:10 (Reel Change) Couple seconds of Luke in cockpit and Dagobah sets
47:05 Yoda "Yes, yes, but now we must eat."  (jumps over "but now")
59:48 (20-30 seconds) Yoda-Luke dialog :  "Death. - That place...  is strong with the dark side of the Force.  A domain of evil it is.  In you must go.  What's in there?  Only what you take with you. Your weapons... you will not need them."
1:08:40 Yoda: "That is why you ___."
1:11:20 boba cut frames  ?????
1:18:43 Obi-wan "Don't give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
1:19:16 (Reel Change) Post Yoda "There is another"
1:27:02 Vader "I do not want the emperor's prize damaged."
1:27:25 Lost frames in Luke's fly into Bespin
1:32:09 As Boba fires on Luke
1:32:08 Lost frames as Luke runs through Bespin plaza (almost like the Qui-Gon/Obi run in TPM)
1:37:58 (Reel Change) Luke jumps down onto trampoline
1:39:01 Lost frames as Luke gets hit then circular window shatters
1:41: lost frames

Some of these seem like dropped frames in the capture process.  A few happened at sharp loud sections which can overload some capture systems.

1:56:30 During credit (Visual Effects Editorial Supervisor CONRAD BUFF) something interrupts the right side of the frame.

I don't think you'll find a version of Empire where Luke looks more beat up at the end.  Purple and bloated.  That green sky really adds to the mood.  Definitely one of the more unique SW recordings to surface over the years, many thanks Fritz!

...are we all... fine.  Here.. now?
Now back to the Boring Conversation!


Added to first post: (and fixed the errors Aluminum Falcon pointed out)
2005.05.29 : ROTS Cyrillic Crawl - (camcd1&2) [might be same as 3bin/cue version]
1980.xx.xx : ESB 70mm In-Theater Audio Recording - morgands1
and frame guides/reel changes for ESB_TP and ROTJ_TP


Working on converting a Theatrical TPM VHS (some crowd interaction) and would like to include sections which showcase special aspects of the recording.  For instance i'll set chapter markers around the Cue Markers so that they can be played in a dedicated storyline.  Also plan to mark out the footage which would later be changed or modified.  Right now using the wiki SW change as a guide and looking through Adywan's reconstruction thread.  If you know other places for change's, please post.   Or recommend ideas for something to identify so the disc helps pull out information specific to the theater.  Maybe a storyline for all the scenes with subtitles, since that's an aspect which has changed over time.

Also learned that the 'Z' version opens with the crowd cheering then shifts to a direct audio feed.

and here's a story about a TPM which got away:

TPM stolen print : Menomonie, Wis.http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme=mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB82CBAE770122A&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Conclusion:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=h6caAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Si8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6354,2270991&dq=bootleg+phantom+menace&hl=en

Sluggo wrote: if you are thinking of non-movie tpp's, would Return of the Ewok or the bootleg Anchorhead scenes from ComiCon belong on your list?

Maybe down the line.  Right now got enough to focus on.  Even though a fan of the cut scene material, so would be curious to see/hear the reaction of the ComiCon-ians to the Anchorhead material.  Maybe in time.

 People wrote:

    but Empire is the best I've seen any SW-bootleg look


    to bad there wasn't a good version for Star Wars and Jedi like Empire.

Is there something wrong with the Moth3r XviD that i'm completely missing????!!!!

Whom we can ask some question to, about the recording.  Suggestions for lines of questioning?

Sent over a bunch of questions to Catnap.  Things like: What's the story behind the tape.  Did he know if it was a 16mm source.  Why Catnap.  If he thought it was a professional collector transfer or something else.  When did he think it was transfered, any ideas on the equipment.  General things to see if some details could be filled in.

Mattessino's list of 70mm differences are also very trustworthy

Link please?

Place your bets: How long does the blog stay active?

Could anyone recommend monitor calibration tools/techniques?  Has anyone who's created pics, calibrated with someone else?  Would like to comment but this monitors is at least 8 years old...  What kind of monitors is everyone using?

and VLC does have output capabilities.  (never had much success but it's there)

  'Advanced Open File' -> Steaming/Saving Settings

Jetrell Fo wrote:

Are the editdroid versions available somewhere one might find them to watch?  The only transfer version of these that I have are on 2 discs...2 programs per disc, and I'm not sure which set they're from.

You can check the menu's in Russ's "Galatic Trade Federation" website:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/gtf/dvd/OT/edit.html

They were posted to a.b.sw this year.

The more you can tell us about what changes you're aware of, how they affect your viewing experience, things you definitely don't want to see, etc. will affect which version we might suggest to you. Your 'No SE' clause will greatly reduce the numbers.

To get a head start, you can read general descriptions of many versions from this forums wiki:

http://originaltrilogy.com/fan-edits/fan-project-list.cfm

There's no easy answer to your question. Many people create the versions which satisfy their requirements, and sometimes they overlap with new people like yourself.

Also read OT.com's FAQ:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Fan-edit-preservation-forum-rules-and-FAQ/forum/17/topic/5950/

Since your last positive viewing experience was the VHS release. Someone might have preserved those, but can't think of them off hand.

Unfortunately, the copies submitted to LOC for copyright won't be useful when the films become public domain. I doubt they even have proper film storage procedures for those (i.e. temperature, humidity control), they probably just put the cans in a box in a room. In fact, they probably are completely red right now and will never be useful for anything, even today. ROTJ might have been printed on LPP low-fade since it was introduced in 1982, but even if it was those are still not as reliable as people say, and they were only ever said to last for 75 years or so, which is less than a full copyright term anyway. Other than the Technicolor print and a handful of LPP prints, release prints of at least SW and ESB aren't archival and probably ceased being viewable or salvageable some time in the 1990s.

People who visit the LOC archives and found what you assume, degraded prints and signs of faulty archiving, might have begun spreading word of this problem. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't, were not tapped into that community. (general searches "LOC +problem +film +archives" at first glance doesn't bring up something noticable) You might be right that what they thought was proper preservation in 1985 has turned out to be not enough in 2010. But let's go find people in the know who have seen the problem first hand, before jumping to the conclusion. In the recent conversation with Mr. Leggett of the LOC they were moving their archives to a better climated and more secure facility. Yes government can seem ill-equiped at times, but these people are knowledgeable of their field and understand the magnitude of their job, they are preserving culture more then most other organizations. On the issue of what happens to LOC works when they enter the public domain, it doesn't sound like they know what will happen. but the purpose of saving the works is so that people can see them, make sense that once public domain sets in, works will be loaned or digitized for companies to profit from or organizations will be granted access to make them available.

We need to nail down many of these assumptions to add weight to the arguments behind SaveStarWars.com. It's nice to blow up the issue to rally the troops but it might not pan out that way.

generalfrevious wrote:

BTW, if someone brings up the LOC prints:

1. Do not have ROTJ as of this posting

2. The ESB print may or may not be the SE/ and is in worse shape than the copy of ANH

1. incorrect.  Here's the LOC 'Return of the Jedi' public record:

http://lccn.loc.gov/96501520

Under 'Description; you'll read 35mm ref print.  and under 'Acquisition Source' the date 6/15/83.

You are mixing up the general Library of Congress with the LOC's Nation Film Archive.  Two separate organizations, under one roof.  Almost all works published at least one or two copies are send to the LOC for archiving and copyright verification.  The LOC-NFA is a recent body created to preserve currently considered 'culturally valuable' works.  The public votes, so submit your vote for the Holiday Special today.  http://www.loc.gov/film/

2. there are multiple SW and ESB's in the archives.  the LOC has at least one, and the LOC-NFA has a different one.  The ESB LOC-NFA print hasn't even arrived yet.

4. No one should have to wait 40 years to see the OOT in modern AV quality.

Then write a letter to your Congress persons explaining to them why current copyright legislation is faulty.

The reason why Frink jumps on people who freely admit 'willful copyright infringement' is for the sake of the forum.  This place exists because people talk about the actual works and their creative and cultural value.  If every thread turned into here's where to get this and that, and I never bought that but watched this, no legal body would have any issue closing the place down.  If you'd like OT.com to continue, consider the implications of your typing.

If the past has any bearing on the future, dvd and blu-ray releases show up pre-sales date.  Star Wars and the piracy story go hand and hand, from 1977 film duplicates to the color lab leak of ROTS.  Every step of the way, for every movie, someone has gone to jail for a Star Wars copy.  The blu-ray will not be an exception.  In the US the FBI/ICE have been expanding their take down of domains, don't be surprised when the SW blu-ray leads to some sites going offline.  Even places like this.

Avatar is probably the best selling blu-ray so far, and there were many articles about the piracy aspect of it's release.  The MPAA and other trade organizations are eagerly awaiting the next big release (ie SW) to re-send their message in a more forceful way.  Some sites taken down will be legitimate, others just get caught in the cross fire.  Do you want to have OTcom's owner, have to make the decision of fighting a court case or closing shop?  All too easy...

ATTS wrote: I have troubles downloading parts 5 and 6. Are there missing some articles in the threads?

Parts 5 & 6 are showing complete in my newsreader. (but everyone is different) The PARs should be able to fix two incomplete parts.  Otherwise purge your downloaded message headers and redownload them, could find the full version.  Especially if you downloaded the headers as they were being posted.

(lifted from another thread)

Nelvana Studios Profile 1986

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKYAiSDea9Y

(3:15 shows Ewoks and mentions 'Ewok Special' but means the Holiday Special)

When editing a post, the links go through the automation process to make then active a_href links.  And after each edit the coding gets replicated.  So the original HTML link and the onscreen link gets a third version hidden in the code. (and a forth after the second edit, etc.)

This is only problematic when one post gets edited repeatedly and has multiple links.  Eventually you run into the maximum post limit.

Have been working around the issue by periodically just copying the text to some other program and back.

Star Wars Insider 32 has an interview with Shelagh Fraser: 'Strange Beru': (again nothing concrete, but talks about her voice)

pg. 13:

You'd never know from talking to Shelagh Fraser that she played the reserved, nurturing Beru Lars, Luke Skywalker's aunt in the original Star Wars.  First, there's the thick British accent, which the Irish-born Fraser (whose first name is pronounced Sheila) altered for the role.  But more striking is the talented and talkative acress' gift of gab, which stands in marked contrast to Beru's quiet farmwife simplicity.

Here's the blurb from the 'Star Wars Aficionado - Making of SW 2004/5 & 2007 update' segment on the subject: (nothing definitive)

April (EXACT DATES UNKNOWN)

LARS HOMESTEAD - KITCHEN INTERIOR

One day was spent filming the scene of Shelagh Fraser as Beru talking to Own in their Kitchen, and an additional scene, later cut from the final theatrical cut, of Beru using a milk dispenser.  Fraser's voice would be dubbed for the film's release by an unknown actress (who would then be re-dubbed herself, for unknown reasons, for the STAR WARS TV version in 1982, before having her voice returned for the 1997 SPECIAL EDITION re-release).

http://www.starwarsaficionado.com/backissuepdfcatalog.html

http://starwarsaficionado.blogspot.com/

Thanks for posting.  There has been general talk of this happening in some threads over the years.  But discussion was taken elsewhere.  It would be great if everyone could follow along with the developments, but there's many hurdles which the people in the know felt it was best to restrict chit-chat.  Also since developments would be slower then molasas until the right people came forward.  There are some members who lurk and are coordinating this effort, if it is still happening.

So those people might PM you.  Don't know how that works.

Do you have an example you can show us?  Maybe a home movie you've cleaned up?

Here's a decent SWLogo vector recreation to use:

http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/logo/star-wars

http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/logo/star-wars-1

The original and Revisited are on youtube:  ocpmovie2 (for current version)

The major upgrade was in the Twixtor enhancements.  Look for 'Star Wars Deleted Scenes Restoration 24p' titles like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZY5nRPzu5M

Notes on Audience Participation
Star Wars - 70mm - Audio Recording by L. Mayer

Below are some notes of none-movie sounds heard in this recording.  There's sever limitations to getting a sense of an audience from just an audio recording.  Can't tell if people are sleeping or completely engrossed in the story.  But from the non-movie noises, there is a wide variety of people in this audience.  Some young kids, couple teenagers, a few women stand out from the random voices.

So can do some cough analysis, generally coughs were kept out of critical moments of the film.  People kept the coughs away from dialog or hid them in music crashes.

The laughs from this recording are the best place to hear people getting what's happening on screen.  In the comment descriptions added the notation of which lines were GL and which were part of the dialog enhancement by Gloria Katz and Williard Huyck.  Many of their additions gathered guffaws, but GL's dialog got some as well.  And it's not just dialog.  The special fx's get laughs (chess table) the last minute additions (the mouse droid) and edit changes (3po in the wires) which really clicked with this audience.  and it's a credit to GL and Burtt that people from early on to later in the film identify with R2.  From him being kicked and bickering with 3po to getting hit in the Death Star attack, people responded to the character in this recording.

00:04:40 - quiet yell
00:09:50 - mic adjustment and some speaking
00:10:00 - R2 comments get some giggles - The interaction between R2 and 3po gets a few giggles.  The 3po kick seems to lighten the mood.
00:11:50 - coughing
00:12:30 - speaking?
00:23:50 - shifting
00:32:15 - coughing
00:38:15 - Vader's choking of Motti get a few guffaws from what sounds to be an adolescent male.  (George Lucas dialog)
00:38:25 - Then a few more comments when Tarkin steps in.
00:54:30 - Excited talk after the escape and hyperspace jump, during shot of Death Star.
00:57:20 - Responding to "Don't everyone thank me at once" line or the chess table.  (George Lucas dialog) laughter to one of the chess moves.
00:58:00 - Laugh at the 'Let the wookie win' line.  (Gloria Katz / Willard Huyck dialog addition)
01:06:10 - Outburst.
01:07:40 - Outburst kid.
01:09:25 - Laugh "I can imagine quite a bit" (Gloria Katz / Willard Huyck dialog addition)
01:09:45 - big laugh at 'You put those on him' (George Lucas dialog)
01:10:10 - Laugh at Mouse Droid bit.
01:17:35 - Laughs and comments about Dianoga.  Then quiet.
01:18:25 - Some comments, when luke goes under a second time.  dead silence.
01:23:50 - Laughs at 'Walking carpet' line. (Gloria Katz / Willard Huyck dialog addition)
01:27:30 - cough
01:33:40 - Laugh at 'Help i'm melting' line. (Editing)
01:35:00 - Laugh 'I Care' line, predominantly women. (Gloria Katz / Willard Huyck dialog addition)
01:35:30 - Laugh, full crowd at 'No' line. (George Lucas dialog)
01:38:40 - cough
01:50:45 - cough
01:53:20 - Comments after R2 is hit.
01:55:50 - General chatter as Luke and Han walk to get awards.

Many thanks to L.Mayer for the recording and BrianM for cleaning it up and setting it free.

Added AotC IMAX to the first page list.

Haven't considered non-movie items, but the "Special Effects: Anything Can Happen", might end up in the Honorary Mention category, because of the opening scene recreation and the other movie centric material it contained.

I try on some level to never watch the same version twice.  The story varies slightly between them all, so why not experience the variations and give up on the definition that there is one all mighty version which defines a personal canon experience of 'The Star Wars'.

Here's a general topic for discussion of odd behind the company things which might surface.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-record-toy-revenue-96809#comments

NEW YORK - Lucasfilm's Star Wars franchise had its highest toy revenue ever for a non-movie year in 2010 and the best toy revenue since Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith.

With sales of more than $510 million last year, Star Wars also maintained its position as the bestselling boys toy license in the U.S. for the third consecutive year, according to Lucasfilm and research firm NPD Group.

Sexist double standards in the land of "Star Wars"

http://www.sfweekly.com/2011-02-02/news/lucasfilm-employee-fired-sex-life-star-wars/#

kamyio wrote:

I use special scripting tools to get it into 3D, no programs other than actual video file conversion.  Though I found a problem with mine last night, the encoding wasn't being well received via NGV

What is behind the requirement of you 3D folks for program secrecy?

The Aluminum Falcon wrote:

Anyway, it should be easy for none to give us the links.

As i've explained to some others through PM, I will not be giving out these links.  Neptune never got back to me about any of this, so I don't know what's going on over there.  Just because he doesn't log back in doesn't mean he's hiding.

There's a scene at the other end, very much like this one, with it's own idiosyncracies.  My impression is that they sense a new technology unfolding and they are there to fill the public's desire until the actual thing comes through.  On one hand, maybe they are just tech savy and learning the ropes, looking for appreciation of their work or other something else entirely.  kamiyo's posts gives off the same vibe.