none

In the battle of Hoth why didn't the snow speeders attack from the side.

My fav Bond is the one from 'The Black Dossier' comic.  A twisted raping machine with zero morals.  a really phuck-ass.

*but now for something else*

Fight Shrub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0pEAiZOR5s&feature=youtu.be

via:boingboing.net

Ripplin wrote: Is that the VCR you used for the transfer?

Yup the 'hey it still works' Sony Video Cassette Recorder SLV-779HF.  Came out in 1999 so it's just as old as your tape!  The Amazon Product Description paints the picture:

For quick setup and a clear picture, Sony's SLV-779HF is a cut above bargain basement VCRs.

*OMIT*

The above-average audio and video performance of the Sony SLV-779HF makes this VCR a solid buy in its price range.

So it's like the Millennium Falcon... before the special modifications.

link343 wrote: what is the difference between TPMVHSNYC and TWC240_TPMB? They look very similar, but the sound seem less bassy on TWC240.

Same source different generation.  TPMVHSNYC seems closer to the capture.

TPMVHSNYC                                                                        TWC240_TPMB

TWC240 is most likely a VCR generation down, as the right side black bar has been increased.  The contrast is also higher.  TPMVHSNYC was found on the streets of NYC the week after film release and as that location has a history of bootlegging there's a good posibility this version originated there.  (but the width of the black bar on the right side, makes me think this is a second, third or fourth generation) TWC240 was found in the south east of the US.

The quote on TPMVHSNYC's cover (from usenet) is a possible clue towards the origin of this tape or a different bootleg:

alt.videos.bootlegs
May 26, 1999, 3:00 am

dkall26
"Filmed in a New York cinema with Hi8 Camcorder, Dead Centre, no obstructions, external audio quality mic used so really nice sound, framed apx 85% of widescreen picture.  Tripod shot, Steady as a rock, excellent colour."

The nice thing about TWC240 is that someone added to the tape a recording of a news program (Dateline) discussing the same bootleg.  But the version shown in the show has been even more modified, and my belief is the extra modification was done on purpose by the news program, or was supplied by the MPAA and they modified it.  (but if the MPAA/FBI are familiar with the bootlegging scene maybe they know who to go to, to find the same bootleg in various qualities)  In the report sections play fine (as in they look like the actual bootleg, except generally darker, could be show recording) then when they're discussing quality, then there is additional errors.  Example:

Dateline Version:                                                        TWC240:

If you'd like another news report on TPM bootleg, Ripplin's 'Star Wars Galore' tape was recently digitized and on disc 2 of this set, is the 'Extra' bootleg report:

Thread here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Ripplin-and-20-present-Star-Wars-Galore/topic/12962/

Disc contents here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/F-L-I-M-S-I-P-L-A-S-T-D-A-T-A-B-A-S-E/post/500333/#TopicPost500333

toho-scope wrote: waaaaay back in 1999 my dad somehow got a VHS bootleg of TPM and it sucked it was a piss poor cam job with blurry video worse audio and *possible* sections of the movie missing but it was so long ago ive probably forgotten but it didnt have the "z" in picture just a timecode on the top possibly the camcorders

We haven't come across any TPM's with timecode, so this is new to us!  Would you classify it as timecode as in two sets of number or just a running counter in the corner, then that would probably be a homemade addition.

fast forward to 2005 and me and my frend tom watched a bootleg dvd of episode 3 which didnt have the backstroke subtitles instead it had a timecode and sections missing including r2d2 falling upside down in the hanger and had artifacts all the time especially pronounced in fast motion

The R2 falling sequence is near a reel change so that's a good explanation for it's omission.

The first post has links to pics, if you want to check them out see if seeing pictures might jog some memories.

It's a great show, Charlie Ross has explained how he was one of those kids who got the VHS and watched it everyday. 

Tyrphanax wrote:  Aw man. I just came here to post that.

For a hot chick she did pretty good. I'm guessing the guy wanted just "Star Wars," but my mind immediately went to "Adventures of the Starkiller, Episode I: The Star Wars." =P

I wrote the 'Star Wars' person who was asking the questions:

Curious, did you attempt to inform her of this error and the producers turned off your mic or cut out your reply?

The film for the first several years of theater engagements did not have the Episode IV it was added for the 1981 re-release just after ESB.

He wrote back:

Yes, I'm fully aware that the original release was simply "Star Wars," and the "Episode IV" part was added later....

But for the purposes of this trivia contest, which was just supposed to be FUN, she was close enough :)

So being an annoying phuck-ass dork, I replied:

Well 'FUN' to you is misinformation to people like myself.  Although your case was 'light', the problem comes in conjunction with other productions with the Official Lucasfilm stamp of approval who make similar mistakes.

For instance the recent J.Rinzler 'Making of the Empire Strikes Back' book, for the first several pressing, the book had many Special Edition (SE) photos through out the book.  Rinzler acknowledged this was a mistake and future pressing will correct the error.

Another recent program which focused on the pioneering special effect achievements of the original Star Wars by ILM.  That would be model making, etc.  But they used SE shots which were done in the computer.

So although you see your case as harmless, it's part of a larger wave of misinformation which is modifying people's remembrances of history, even though hard facts exist which can refute.

Feel free to roll your eyes. 

There's a website about this phenomenon.
http://savestarwars.com/

Good luck to you and your show, but try not to spread mis-truths.  And if you have someone saying they are a Star Wars expert and they get a question wrong, call them out.  You should e-mail her to let her know of her mistake.  If you want to be nerdy/geeky you can point out that the script used during filming had the title "Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller" as taken from the "Journal of the Whills".  The novel had "Star Wars from the Adventures of Luke Skywalker".  But the movie from 1977 to 1981 was just 'Star Wars'.

Anyone in London, 12-14 August 2011?

http://www.seenit.co.uk/more-films-confirmed-for-empire%E2%80%99s-weekend-of-film/069023/

Following the news that the Muppets and DreamWorks’ Real Steel will be featured during Empire’s BIG SCREEN weekend celebration of film, it’s been confirmed that key members of the team from Industrial Light and Magic will be discussing some of the new content on the upcoming Star Wars Blu-Ray release.

Official site: http://www.empirebigscreen.com/

The two party system shares more common traits then dissimilar ones.

^ This is understandable from the majority of the members of this community, but there are more posts in the SW Galaxies forum then the official one which went down recently and people are actively working to save SW Galaxies which they didn't for the official forum shut down.  What that says about the movies and the games is for your opinion posts, but hopefully this is a sign of more SW enthusiasts supporting people saving 'any' SW culture.  Could this be the SW gaming equivalent of this forums 2005 petition?

Dr. Sketchy's Star Wars Anti-Art School Class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rheorByIJbk&feature=player_embedded

via: boingboing.net

http://www.gamesworldsa.com/Fans-Try-To-Save-Star-Wars-Galaxies-news1172.html

Whenever an MMO is dismantled, there is a major outcry from the game’s fans. Star Wars Galaxies is no exception, and fans of the long-running MMO are trying their best to save it from a December shut-down.

Several groups have started petitions to try and convince SOE to give a free-to-play model a try instead of shutting it down, but SOE has reacted pretty harshly to such attempts.

Any mentioned of saving the game has caused forum topics on the game’s site to be deleted.

According to reports, some fans are seeking legal action, hoping that they can avoid a shutdown through some legal loophole.

More details: http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/30/star-wars-galaxy-lawsuit-shutdown/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Venturebeat+%28VentureBeat%29

Leaders:

Revenge of the Sith (Workprint) ViSA

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/VIDEO-TS-sleuthing-forensics-How-can-I-and-what-could-I-learn/post/453920/#TopicPost453920

SMPTE -> HEAD (reversed) -> COMMON NO SYNC (reversed) -> (arrow) -> COLOR BY JEDI MASTERING LAB -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> (black ring on red field) -> (black rectangle on red field) -> (yellow background) 1 - R " 2 NOTSSNUD "" -> SOUND START (vertical flip) -> REEL 1 (vertical flip) -> DUNSTON 2 (vertical flip) -> PICTURE START (white background) -> (diamond) -> (count down) 11, 10, 9 NINE, 8, 7, 6 SIX, 5, (diamond) POP or BOB???? -> 4 -> (arrow) -> CONTROL STRIP (7FRAMES) -> (arrow), 3

Leaders:

Star Wars 16mm English (PuggoGrande)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Puggo-GRANDE-16mm-restoration/topic/9752/

Star Wars 16mm Reel 1 Lead-in

BEG -> PICTURE -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> Star Wars (script) -> DEL 180615 -> CRI 1 -> DOMESTIC CRI #1 -> STAR WARS R-1 -> (crossed out) "A" R0II? -> R-1 (crossed out A?) -> STAR WARS (script) -> ILM (script) -> (crossed out) DEL 180437 -> PART TITLE -> (diamond) -> START -> (diamond) -> 11 -> (diamond) -> 10 -> 6 -> (diamond) -> 5 -> 3 (script) -> (arrow) -> 4 -> 3

Star Wars 16mm Reel 1 Lead-out

SUBJECT -> LENGTH ROLL -> REEL NO COLOR PICTURE -> RATIO SOUND -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> XXXX -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> REEL NO. PROD NO. PLAY DATE -> 180615 -> DEL# 180437 (crossed out) -> 3A (crossed out 'A') -> REEL (script) -> STAR WARS (script) -> DOM CRI -> Star Wars (script) -> 16 SOUND START -> 35 SOUND START -> PICTURE START -> 8 -> 7 -> 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> 3 (script) -> 4 -> 3

Star Wars 16mm Reel 2 Lead-in

SUBJECT -> LENGTH ROLL -> REEL NO COLOR PICTURE -> RATIO SOUND -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> XXXX -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> REEL NO. PROD NO. PLAY DATE -> 180615 -> DEL# 180437 (crossed out) -> 3A (crossed out 'A') -> REEL (script) -> STAR WARS (script) -> DOM CRI -> Star Wars (script) -> 16 SOUND START -> 35 SOUND START -> PICTURE START -> 8 -> 7 -> 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> 3 (script) -> 4 -> 3

Star Wars 16mm Reel 2 Lead-out

FINISH -> ILM STAR (script) -> WARS -> ??? 180615 -> HE6? (crossed out) -> 180613 (crossed out) 180437 -> 4B -> ??? (crossed out) -> CRI#1 (dot) -> Star Wars? -> PICTURE -> (dot) -> FOOT -> COLOR PICTURE -> ROLL -> END

Star Wars 16mm Reel 3 Lead-in

BEG -> SUBJECT -> LENGTH ROLL -> REEL NO COLOR PICTURE -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> Star Wars R5 (script) -> STAR WARS (script) -> DEL 180615 - DOM CRI -> REEL 5 (crossed out 'A') -> ??? (crossed out) -> ILM -> (diamond) -> START -> (diamond) -> 11 -> 10 -> (diamond) -> 9 -> (diamond) -> 8 -> (diamond) -> 7 -> (diamond) -> 5 -> (arrow) -> PLACE CONTROL STRIP HERE -> 4 -> 3 (color script) -> 3 -> (3 hash lines) -> (3 hash lines reverse)

Star Wars 16mm Reel 3 Lead-out

FINISH -> Y -> ONL? -> T

zombie84 wrote: They screened a bunch of funny vintage trailers and a 35mm print of Return of the Jedi.

Pics or it didn't happen!  Neet that they get some use periodically.

Might just be a coincidence, there was an outdoor showing of RotJ in Brooklyn last week as well. 

http://bococaland.com/blog/2011/06/22/return-of-the-jedi-at-carroll-park/

http://www.carrollparkbrooklyn.org/?p=1564

fudge could have had a second to my outdoor recordings of these movies...

linke343 wrote: he is sending me a copy of the full "Z" version. He merged the two VCD's to a single MPEG file.

This is nice of both of you.  Looking forward to seeing the other half.

Note, especially with digital bootlegs there is information in the original which could be useful.  Digital forensics could learn something which might be lost as the files are modified.  Also original dates are important. 

But, if there is need to modify the original so be it.  Beggers can't be choosers.  And there is some value in modifying.  As the technology involved in some of these versions is not being supported by current computing.  I ran into problems playing several of the VCDs.  To get the screen caps, needed to jump though a few hoops to work with the files.  Had contemplated converting them to the DVD format as that format might last a little longer.  But the idea was to convert them only to the point that the original and this modified version would fit onto whatever media was chosen.  So AotC-ctp is 3 VCD's at 2.5 GB so the modified and the original could possible fit on a DVD5.  I held off on doing this as i'm not too adept with the aspect ratio thing (which I would like to correct) and interest is hard to guage.

The VW commercial gets a response:

'VW: The Dark Side' by GreenpeaceVideo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nXndQuvOacU

http://vwdarkside.com/

^ So since it's taken a week for these reviews to come out, it's safe to assume they are stamped and approved.

msycamore wrote: the mono mix was created last, it wasn't until later in June if I recall correctly, that version first saw the light.

(this is probably right, but i've typed this out so follow the logic.  the first few sentences are a little off)

That doesn't quite jive with: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/chapters/theatres.htm

He's got a fairly even distribution of all three versions out there on opening day.  (8-70mm, 13-Dolby, 12-Mono)

I can understand if they made the "refined" credits at the time when they were making new prints when the popularity grew or for foreign versions, but exclusively for the prints with the mono mix... why even have Dolby System on those prints? was Dolby compatible with Academy mono prints?

I wouldn't say they did is 'exclusively for' the mono mix prints, it's just that those were last produced and they received the current final version.  (so yes it is exclusive, but that wasn't their goal)  From Rinzler's MoSW pg.288

MoSW pg.288 Quote: "The Dobly mix, however, was just the beginning of sound for Star Wars, as only parts of the English-speaking world were equipped for it.  For crucial foreign markets and much of America, monaural and other stereo system soundtracks had to be prepared as well."

On the Dolby Systems logo, they would probably say that's the level of technology the film was made up to for optimal performance.  The credits reflect that.

MoSW pg.291 Quote: "The first mix sent out with the film, at the last possible second, was the six-track Dolby stereo version, but the first mix also had the most errors.  Next up was the two-track stereo, which was derived from the six-track, yet there was still not time at that stage to make any changes.  "I asked Steve Katz to do something," Burtt says, "but they wre all too afriad to mess with it, 'cause the deadline was so close-the whole system with the Dolby was kind of an experiment, and they didn't want me to tamper with it."

So that might coincide with the 35mm and 70mm versions being the same.

Rinzler and Coate differ on the order in which the audio versions were created.  Coate says the international is a fourth "35mm four-track magnetic stereo"  But Rinzler's got:

MoSW pg.292 Quote: SWR 05.25.77 "Yes for Lucas, who was still working on the fourth final mix, the monaural, nothing had changed.  "We'd finished the 70mm eight-track stereo mix, which Fox had resisted, and we were working on the monaural version for the wide release, so I was mixing at night," he says.

This wider release using the Coate's data is late June.  As the number of prints in circulation doubled each week.  (approximate: 50-100-200) 

Which is what msycamore said to start this post.

So since it's a new day, new facts, new conclusions, shall we say June for the revised credits?

*EDIT*

Still a little confused what was shown opening day in the theaters which couldn't play the 35mm or 70mm Dolby Stereo version...

*EDIT*

A Burtt quote on mono mix, which could explain the credits:

"George put a lot of effort in that mono mix," Burtt remembers, "and he even said several times, 'Well, this is the real mix. This is the definitive mix of the film.' He paid more attention to it because he felt it was more important archivally."

from: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/index.htm  (towards the bottom)

msycamore wrote: These two Dolby System logos also have a variation in the font used for "Making Films Sound Better", "Noise Reduction - High Fidelity",

That's knowing your logos.  Would never have spotted that, it's like 1/10th of a space reduction between characters!  But yeah the '81 revision idea got shut down when Mothr pointed out that both bootlegs were pre-ANH.  There is the possibility of one being a merger of separate reels, but there's some evidence which doesn't refute the idea but sync's up with other known quantities.

I see in my last post I didn't really explain the connections fully.  When paying attention to the audio changes in conjunction with this credit change, they sync up with each other.  The Mono Mix has the 'refined' credits, 16mm and bootleg.  While the Dolby Stereo has the 'draft' credits.  So since the audio differences were identified as opening day things, then this credit probably follows along.

So the weird thing now is, you would think since the 'refined' current credit version that it would have taken it's audio counterpart along to 'current' status, but it hasn't.  The Mono Mix has been excised.  Was the Mono Mix created last or all three being worked on simultaneously?

Will most likely turn this thread into a general Credits and other ephemeral type of thread.  As SilverWook said, it's kinda neeto seeing the credits all at once.

Puggo wrote: It might be possible to date the PG reels by studying the lead-ins/lead-outs provided in the provided extra.

This is something i'll probably turn into a pic.  Looked at the first two reels quickly but didn't see any date specific information, so it's probably going to be comparing image elements to others from this time frame.  As you pointed out the  curious things is that two reels have similar lead in material while the third (middle reel) is something else entirely.  Wondering if this also happened on the Krig.  (haven't looked yet)

Since the Credit thing seems to be an opening day variation, starting to look at the variations relevant to this thread:

1977 Dolby Stereo : (mthr)   2006 / 1977 Mono Mix : (DVD)   SE-Flunk: (TV Broadcast)

*EDIT*

This list is just going from the 2006 DVD version to the Flunk SE version.  (but definitely note that there were most likely two credits available opening day)

SWSE Credits Rev 01: add 'Executive Producer GEORGE LUCAS'
SWSE Credits Rev 02: add commas and 'JAMES EARL JONES as the voice of Darth Vader'
SWSE Credits Rev 03: move CAST above PANAVISION, TECHNICOLOR, DELUXE & DOLBY SYSTEM Logo
SWSE Credits Rev 04: add 'Voice of Darth Vader JAMES EARL JONES'
SWSE Credits Rev 05: add 'SPECIAL EDITION' names and organizations
SWSE Credits Rev 06: shrink 'DOLBY SYSTEMS' Logo
SWSE Credits Rev 07: add A LUCASFILM LTD. PRODUCTION
SWSE Credits Rev 08: move 'Ownership...' clause
SWSE Credits Rev 09: add 'Special Edition Soundtrack available on RCAVICTOR
SWSE Credits Rev 10: add 'Novelization available from Ballantine Books'
SWSE Credits Rev 11: add 'copyright symbol 1997 LUCASFILM LTD.'
SWSE Credits Rev 12: remove 'Approved' from MPAA Logo which is now Registered.  Film No. 24925 remains the same
SWSE Credits Rev 13: add 'Mixed & Recorded in a THX Sound System Theatre
SWSE Credits Rev 14: add 'Sony Dynamic Digital Sound' Logo
SWSE Credits Rev 15: add 'Dolby Digital' Logo
SWSE Credits Rev 16: add 'DTS Stereo' Logo
SWSE Credits Rev 17: add 'Please call 1-800-PHONE-THX' message & Quality assurance information

*EDIT*
Missed one: rev 'Special Dialogue & Sound Effects' to 'Special Dialogue and Sound Effects'

Harmy wrote: Guys, you won't believe this shit!!!

Wallpaper!  (1920x1088)

Treadwell wrote: reels can be mixed up over the years.

Yeah the franken-print idea is something which might plague this.  The key is though we have two official and two bootleg sources all pre-ANH but each set has one of each credit version.

Leaning more towards this being an opening day, print variation thing, not something they changed as they made new prints.  Here's why:

Three Audio Versions & Two Credit Versions

35mm two-track (four-channel) Dolby Stereo = English 16mm & widescreen pre-ANH bootleg (does not have 'close the blastdoor') + 'Draft' Credits

70mm Six-Track Dolby Stereo = (does not have 'close the blastdoor')

35mm Academy mono = Swedish 16mm & cropped pre-ANH bootleg (has 'close the blastdoor') + 'Refined' Credits

[Note: to add in some extra credit confusing the Swedish visual field is larger then the English, so don't get the 16mm cropped confused with the pre-ANH bootleg cropping.  Same term, two different used.]

In the Puggo restoration video of the Grande (english 16mm), he mentioned how he used the Swedish audio for this project but the English 16mm video, which might make this a franken-release of sorts.  He noted that he was required to make audio revisions as the two prints didn't match up.  Not sure if this is caused by actual changes or just something in the preservation of this particular print.  The video mentions certain points where the spockets required fixing for instance.

Mielr wrote: I decided to tempt fate and restore the commenting functions.

Should turn out to be an interesting experiment.  Finding trends from the user comments pre-post the new release would make for a good article or blog post.

Would think this new release would mollify this situation.  Having everything in one package (if these people choose it) leaves it up to the purchaser.  Ever since 2006, maybe the psychology of the trolls in these videos is they feel slighted having been reminded of the old versions, and that's caused their periodic lashing out.  If they only want the new, they'll purchase just the new and that ignoring of the old will transition over into those who post.

Space for noting the differences in the Star Wars credits. 

Changes improve readability.  Add clarity to certain groups, while eliminating much of the blank space. 

English 16mm vs. Swedish 16mm prints:

16mm eng-swe General : The Swedish credits give people credits more breathing space.  Places are more condensced.  Did not notice any name or job revisions.  Specific line spacing changes:

16mm eng-swe 01: Space inserted after John Williams before L.S.O.

16mm eng-swe 02: Space inserted after Production Sound Mixer before Casting

16mm eng-swe 03: Space inserted after Assistant Film Editors before Camera Operators

16mm eng-swe 04: Space inserted after Titles before 2nd Unit Photography

16mm eng-swe 05: Space inserted after Prints by before DOLBY SYSTEM logo

Star Wars 1977 Revised credits vs Special Edition 1997 credits

1997 01: Added Executive Producer GEORGE LUCAS

1997 02: Added to 'with' credit JAMES EARL JONES as the voice of Darth Vader

1997 03: Revised John Williams credit by moving 'Original Music' to first line

1997 04: Cast moved before Panavision

1997 05: James Earl Jones added to the CAST list.

1997 06: Added SPECIAL EDITION category.

1997 07: Added INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC category.

1997 08: Reformated Locations

1997 09: Copyright changed to 1997 and shifted down

1997 10: Added Soundtrack and Novelization

1997 11: Added SDDS, Digital Dolby, DTS Stereo

1997 12: Added 1-800-PHONE-THX

Note: Same MPAA number...

Space for Credit Pics:

mthr:                                       PuggoGrande:                      PuggoKrig:

PuggoKrig:                                DVD2006:                                SE-Flunk: