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Here's an idea for a future heavy reorganization.  In the change thread you've laid out several criteria for types of changes which occurred in the SEs.  Right now the *POW* of the SE Changes article is given early on, the total number.  What if you start with explaining the obvious well known ones (use SW.com's pages), then proceed to get more and more indepth, then at the end of the article is the final number of changes and comparisons to the number of shots, scenes, whatevers.  Start with Jabba (New) and the digital DS attack (throwing out old), then move into the Tatooine sky (Partial) and eventually the wipes. Each step of the way, the Change Total ramps up.

Personally hate this line "definitive catalogue of every alteration the Special Editions".  (and any time 'complete' is used)  There have been multiple blogs posts claiming to be the be all end all of SW changes and they all fall short.  Would phrase it that people are still uncovering things.  (then maybe add an Update Page log at the bottom, so when new things are uncovered it's noted)

Also the links to doubleofive's pages are confusing.  There's:

"List of changes to Star Wars" and

"Complete List of changes to Star Wars"

back to back.  Maybe have the first set of links noted as just 2004 changes after the Complete List link:

"Identified Visual Changes to Star Wars 1997+ : (2004 Changes Only)"

Are there functioning links to the SW.com old change page? (wayback machine?)  might want to rehost them if they're not.

...and is there reason to have two article, one for visuals one for audio?  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/   this is very useful page and the layout could be applied to the SEs.

On the spreadsheet, was able to move the Script scenes into the Spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdGt3cjV5VWdPblAwN2txNVJWV2ZmQ0E&hl=en_US#gid=0

Question for those into this, did I use the right script?  Used the Revised Fourth Draft: http://starwarz.com/starkiller/2010/03/star-wars-the-adventures-of-luke-starkiller-revised-fourth-draft/  Which is the version from the Annotated Screenplay, should be fairly close.  Was there ever a final as on screen script?

This version is ringing in at over 500 noted scenes. (even though the last scene is labeled 252)  There's probably 20-40 OMITTEDs being counted.  In the previous version was doing the actual film and needed to add three shots from a sequence of 10 scenes.

On the audio change's topic, here's Neil S. Bulk's list from 2004:

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?s=4e1cfd796f3005131809aed9e617ad75&showtopic=5760&st=0&p=133630&#entry133630

i'll paste in a copy just in case JWFan goes through another post renumbering:

Here is my list of sound changes. This is all in reference to changes made to the original film, except in a few instances I've pointed out differences also from the 1993 re-mix. Some of these new sounds obviously were heard in the 1997 re-mix, some are new to this mix. I've also included a few picture changes, but I feel they have been covered everywhere, while the sound mix has been virtually ignored. I have not noted any changes to specific SE shots (such as the destruction of Alderaan) since these shots are entirely new.


The 1954 recording of the Fox logo is still played though it sounds very distorted.

The new Lucasfilm logo is shown.

The ?Star Wars? title card starts moving much too fast in relation to the original and can be seen ?shifting gears? as it gets smaller and slows down.

New explosions can be heard over the opening shot.

The foley in this mix is very loud and in your face. Not subtle in anyway. Note Threepios footsteps. They've always been there, just never this loud.

The sound of the ship docking has some revised sound.

The shirts of the rebel troopers change colors. They were always gray before. In some shots now they are blue.

Vaders voice has been re-processed throughout the entire film to get him to match the sequels.

When Artoo opens the door to the escape pod, the button he pushes buzzes.

The laser blast that convinces Threepio to get in the escape pod was re-done in 1993. It is the same sound effect as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark. This effect is also heard later in the movie.

When Vader is talking to the ?Second Commander? (?Lord Vader, the battle station plans are not aboard this ship!?) the room in the background makes beeping noises. For fun, I?ll point out that this actor has the same voice as General Dodonna at the end of the movie. I suspect that the ?Second Commander? is dubbed.

When Artoo is shot by the Jawas and falls over a tremendous bass impact has been mixed in.

The restraining bolt being installed makes a different sound.

Artoos arrival inside the sand crawler makes a new sound.

You now hear the sand crawler start up as it starts to move.

Later, you hear the sand crawler come to a stop. Threepio then says, ?We?ve stopped? before telling Artoo to wake up.

The sound of Threepio rising from the oil bath has been augmented.

The lunch scene with Beru and Owen has some new foley (Beru?s chair makes a sound now). This is a quiet scene and you can literally hear the faders being brought down after every line of dialogue. Dailogue does not sound integrated in this scene.

Beru?s pronunciation of ?father? has been re--done......again.

Luke?s land speeder can be seen in the long shot from the sand peoples point of view. Previously it was just a white speck moving.

The clanking of the sand persons gaffi stick is heard in this mix.

The Krayt Dragon sound that Ben uses to scare the sand people has been re-done. It almost sounds like a police siren at first. Definitely sounds artifical as opposed to the older, more organic sound.

The light sabers have not been re-processed to match the sound heard in the prequels.

In this mix it?s very clear that the bartender has been dubbed. It was not as obvious before.

When Luke is thrown into the table, it makes an all new sound effect.

When the stormtroopers walk into the bar they can be heard saying, ?Undertand you had some trouble in here?. This is heard under Hans, ?Looks like somebody?s beginning to take an interest in your handiwork.? line.

Alien sound effect is missing just before Threepios line, ?I would much rather have gone with Master Luke than stay here with you.?

The music edit just after the Jabba scene is pretty bad. The music just starts. Also Bens line ?If the ships as fast as he?s boasting we ought to do well? is different than the original mix. It sounds edited together here.

A quick dissolve is missing between the shot of the spy and the interior entrance of Docking Bay 94. It is a hard cut now.

The spy makes some more sounds before informing the stormtroopers of where Luke and Ben are.

There are new explosion sound effects in the shoot out in Docking Bay 94.

?You would prefer another target? A military target?? both sound crystal clear. ?Then name the system!? is clearly from the old mix. Right in the middle of the line there is a quality shift. This happens through out the entire movie, but this may be the most obvious. It almost feels like a game, wondering if the next line is going to be the new clear dialogue or the older sounding dialogue. Obviously, there is a lack of consistency here and it?s jarring throughout the film. This is problably the worst feature of this new mix.

When the Falcon arrives at Alderaan there is some very deep bass. However, when the Falcon is captured by the Death Stars tractor beam, deep bass is missing that was heard in the 1993 mix. However there is a lot of sound of the cockpit shaking.

Also in the 1993 mix, the sound of the TIE fighter shooting at the Falcon could be heard. That?s not here nor was it in the original mix.

The PA systems line, ?Close all outboard shields? sounds different.

Just before Han and company come out of the secret compartments, the two inspecting stormtroopers stop at the exit ramp and one of them says, ?There?s no one here.?.

When Luke exits out of the Falcon and taps his stormtrooper helmet, static can be heard.

The dialogue keeps changing during the command office scene, between the clear dialogue and the older sounding dialogue.

The computer in the detention block scene makes new noises.

When Han, Luke and Chewie are shooting the cameras in the cell block area, the explosions are all re-done. There is also some new blaster fire added. When Han shoots the console, his blaster is much louder now then it was before.

The explosion as the stormtroopers blast into the cell block is much louder and has more bass.

When Leia shoots the hatch to get into the garbage chute, the explosion is different.

Chewie pounding on the door of the trash compactor makes new sounds.

The famous blooper of the stormtrooper walking into the door has now been punctuated with a loud ?clunk? sound effect. What was once a tough to see mistake is now pointed ot for everyone to see.

When Ben is turning off the tractor beam (I guess this is what he?s doing since the display is no longer in English) some sound effects that were heard at Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back and in ALIEN are mixed in here.

The creature sound effects after they get out of the trash compactor are different.

When Leia fires her blaster during the chasm crossfire, it no longer sounds like Dirty Harry?s .44 magnum. This chasm also has the ALIEN/Bespin sound effect.

When Luke throws the grappling hook, it makes a ?whizzing through the air? sound effect.

When they are shouting for Luke to come on board the Falcon (after Ben?s death) Leia now says, ?Luke, come on!?. Previously, it was just ?Come on!?.

Music reverb heard during the fight with the TIE Fighters is gone.

During the TIE Fighter fight, there is a long shot of the Falcon and you can see red blaster fire coming from it. There is now sound there to match.

During the first dive towards the attack on the Death Star, key music has been dialled out for a few moments.

?He?s on your tail? line from the SE mix is not heard here.

New sounds can be heard in Red Leaders cockpit as his ship is failing.

When Red Leaders engine is hit by blaster fire, it now makes the same sound as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

As Han, Luke, and Leia walk off after the battle, new crowd cheering effects can be heard.

Neil

^ One logic for inclusion to the change list is they seem to have left Yavin's blue color the same, and all the shadow/surrounding table frame has been blueified.  So it's less about color timing of the whole shot more about hey I want this table blue not whatever it was before.

^ the thing with this color timing is later shots of the table from a different angle are not as blue...   ...and who knows if the GOUT was tweaked...

Someone in another forums has been ranting about this continuity, so figured i'd bring it up.

Here is a variation on zombie's spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdHF4U2R6Q1prN3p4N1pzQWd4RlJiQWc&hl=en_US

The idea would be to list every shot, using the titles provided from the published script (there will be many to fill inbetween), then can use the criteria zombie set up, change, no change, minor change, invisible change, new shot and label each one in each version of the film.  using the number not a separate column.   and let the spreadsheet tally up the results.  this way we would get a total number of shots (COUNT function), and all the variation totals (COUNTIF function). [scroll to the bottom]  and could do some boring math to get percentages and then we would weight the changes and comes up with other Change Statistics which will bore people's minds!

I might be able to pull the script from the Starkiller website and dump into excel, sort by the numbers then split the cells so that the numbers are separated from the title.  then see if that can be done in google docs or if the excel can be shifted into gdocs with little effort.  But if not...

The other way I would see doing it, is someone takes 1-3 minutes.  fills in the data and then someone else checks it.  Probably wouldn't get done by the end of the year, but slow and well just slow.  but phun data at the end.

OR.  you all tell me, hey i've seen a spreadsheet like this it's over here. 

I'm surprised the fan editing community doesn't have something like this yet.  This would possibly help out Frink's fan edit change lists.

from WG Splits 1977 top 2004 bottom: (didn't see it in the picasa page)

doubleofive wrote: I'm missing a shot of the Cloud City furnace (a nice frame I think with Chewie's arm over it, maybe the wipe if if looks reredone),

2004..................................2011

The wipe looks the same.

 I liked having the choice of frames, but maybe they could be marked by scene, sometimes I get lost in the movies.

I wasn't envisioning those lightsaber shots as choices.  Those were the shots which stood out when doing the DIF comparison.

Example: The old blades match the new blades for the most part.  Luke's is a tad brighter.  Most shots DIF out like this: 

But for the shots provided, something else was happening as the light sabers dramatically show up.  Example:

(and amusingly they swap colors...)

sonnyboo wrote: It was in 2006 shortly after the DVD came out, some site (probably theforce.net) had Rick McCallum talking about another documentary that got bumped in favor of WITHIN A MINUTE.

I'm not finding any posts similar to this. (but didnt' search too long)  Rick did a Hyperspace chat during RotS, but after the Sith release most of the talk from him is about future projects, the Young Indy DVD, Indy script and SW3D.  But haven't gone through the hyperspace chats at all, most of that discussion happens in boards.theforce.net.

What other places have you alerted to the Legacy restart?

When do you remember hearing about the replacement.  Before/After the DVD (late 2005)?

Thanks for the update, good luck. 

As the ideas of preservation expand, I wonder which version will drift into the 'accepted' preservation title.  (there probably won't be one, but for the argument play along)  There will be projects like this one where it's one man and a behind the scenes team of experts.  Then there are projects which work more openly, but still tend to be the drive of one individual.  The progress of the first will probably surpass the second for sometime, but the open projects can build upon the others.  And that's the third project type, the built upon the previously rebuilt.  I think it's great to have them all going as they each can spark an idea or concept in the other.  Good to have the Legacy resurging as from the clues shown, the accomplishments MVerta is going through will be mentioned in the blog will help the outside attempts at the same process.  But when the public domaining of Star Wars happens, what will the general public latch onto?  If they do at all of course.

Any chance you can be swayed to put aside Star Wars and upgrade the real master piece 'Dunyayi Kurtaran Adam'?

zombie wrote: Burtt jamming up the workprint has nothing to do with the film.

Yeah makes sense.  And as you can't see the jumpy spot the quote mentions when the Stormtroopers enter, this is probably the case.  But there's that .001% chance that he's mixing up some details.  And maybe attributing it to Burtt, for the time being, will make someone bring up the real story behind these things.

So are they rips or burns?  Is undeveloped film orange in color, could these be undeveloped areas?  A film imperfection.  Probably not, the shape is more something would come about from stress.

Updated the page: http://fd.noneinc.com/Glitch/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors.html  added the 'no orange items' category, figured out some sources and added a few other titles.

As these errors re-emerge as they began SE work, guess they dug up maybe the print which was used for the '77 16mm and that copy became the base for the early '90s home video versions?

msycamore wrote: It's a little weird that they actually made two different NTSC - Pan & Scan transfers for the different formats the same year. (82)

Did the same thing happen in 1995?  The widescreen Faces cap, there's some sign of the errors but in the Full Screen i'm not sure.

msycamore wrote: You're the web-master. ;) I think the comparison page is great and very easy to follow

Problem is i'm using some HTML5 code which not all the browsers have accepted yet.  For instance Firefox will blow up the image when scrolled over but not smoothly.  Chrome will do it smoothly to see the full size images.  And i'm guessing IE might not accept the jQuery expansion/hiding code...

^ wasn't sure if it was an actually sub, or some meme.

^^ i'm curious what the subtitle is in the icon.

msycamore wrote: What Burtt says in that book is probably what we're seeing in this scene but have anyone checked the actual scene he describes "right when the stormtroopers come bursting through the door" for some jumpy spot?

Yeah looked at two versions and not noticing anything out of the ordinary.  Same slight jittering, which is all over the home video releases.  But after the Stormtroopers come in is another slight rip or mark. (thru the helmet)

Burtt may explain the scene, in this manner, as that's how most people would remember it.  If you said Tantive to most people it wouldn't register, but the first sight of the Stormtroopers is something most people would recall.  But yes he could just have said first appearance of 3po and R2.  Not sure, but from the story, there was a whole bunch of film lying on the floor.

A second thought, how did they achieve the initial shaky camera effect.  As it doesn't change (at all?) between releases going with the idea that it was done on set, just hit the camera guy.  But is there a chance the effect was done in post?

msycamore wrote: what is this "1982 Library Starkiller Preservation"?

(from the .nfo)

This is a transfer of the 1982 Star Wars "Video Rental Library" videocassette. This VHS tape was the first ever commercial home video release of Star Wars. It features a full screen pan and scan transfer along with the original 1977 Dolby Stereo sound mix.

Aluminum Falcon, would you happen to know what those cut off characters said?

danny_boy wrote: The burn mark is also missing from the 1982 UK TV broadcast of ANH.

Do you have a recording of that?  Could post some pics.

Updated: http://fd.noneinc.com/Glitch/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors.html

Added second 1977 Starkiller pic, 1982 CED Starkiller, 1986 LD Japan Special Collection Arnie.d, 1993 Full Screen & 1996 Widescreen TV SciFi Broadcasts pics.

So the 82 CED, 86 LDJapan and 82UKTV are all possible candidates for Not having the orange errors?  Seems as if the other 82's Starkiller's LD and Library versions also appear orange error free.  If we concur, i'll create a new category color code for these.

What's people's opinion of the 1995 Faces Full Screen?  In the 1995 Widescreen it's noticeable, but less so in the Full Screen.

Just weird but looking at the OrangeA pics, 3po looks mad.  Something about the shadows and the dome glow...

Haven't seen that Widescreen Review article, will see if maybe through multiple pages the full article could be found.

on the webpage, anyone having issues with the format, is this a good presentation method?  tried to get the OrangeA/B images centered upon themselves, but then it screwed up another aspect, they wouldn't show full size, they'd get cropped by the frame.  Seeing if there's a different way of create the same effect. 

Since the orange rips or burns have come up again, put together a page to look at screen caps:

http://fd.noneinc.com/Glitch/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors.html

and started a dedicated thread for when the conversation drifts too far away from this threads goals:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Tantives-Orange-Errors-Rips-or-Burns-and-More/post/540013/#TopicPost540013

Space for Pics:

Clearly visible:

1977 mthr :

1977 Starkiller :

1977 Puggo Grande :

1977 Puggo Krig :

1993 msycamore Technidisc :

1994 VHS Effy11 :

Fixed versions:

T.B.D. (If you spot something which looks like a fix, post up)

Special Edition versions:

Other:

In early versions of Star Wars, just after the Tantive IV got rocked by the approaching Star Destroyer, as 3po and R2 make their way down the corridor in back-to-back frames there are two large orange items.  (Example pics from the 16mm Puggo Grande)

These two Orange Items are not the only ones which exist thru out the film.  But they have become the symbolic identifiers of this phenomenon.  As home preservations become of better quality additional ones may be found.  For example in this sequence there was a third item which was not apparent in official VHS versions but can be seen in the 16mm versions.  A fourth possible candidate was found in a 35mm print.  Here is a guide to the Orange Items from these consecutive Tantive sequence of frames:

msycamore provided other locations where Orange Items appear in this post:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Tantives-Orange-Errors-Thread/post/565509/#TopicPost565509

Whether they are rips or burns is undecided.  They have been patched, over the years, only to reappears a few years later.  But once the Special Editions arrived they ceased to exist. 

This thread is for discussing these orange items and how their appearance lets us know about the origin of the home video version in question.  ...and hopefully something else otherwise this could be a short thread!

Pics Comparison Page: (HTML5 Browsers)

http://fd.noneinc.com/Glitch/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors/starwars-tantiveorangeerrors.html

This page has screen caps from various version where the orange items appear outright, but also version where it's unsure if they've been 'fixed' or if it's a different source.  Also has some of the Special Edition versions where this shot has been reframed.  (please let me know of other versions to add to the list, if you've got pics that's great, if you don't let me know anyway)

A possible explanation of how they came into being is from the 'Sounds of Star Wars' book:

"At one point while Burtt was working in the basement of Park Way, he was handed the color work print. At that time, Lucasfilm had only one work print of Star Wars, so the utmost care was used when handling it. "I thought, 'This is really valuable; my future's at stake here," says Burtt. "So I threaded the work print up on my Movieola very carefully. I checked all the rollers and sprockets to make sure it was okay. Then I pressed Go - and ripped the films to shreads! Oh, boy. So I spliced it back together and tried to pretend it didn't happen. But all the screenings from then on always had this jumpy spot right when the stormtroopers come bursting through the door of the Blockade Runner."

Here are some previous threads which discussed the Orange Items:

• 2011.09.22 : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/539634/#TopicPost539634
• 2011.03.05 : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Smear-free-93/post/480671/#TopicPost480671
• 2010.07.12 : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-THE-ULTIMATE-EXPERIENCE-Is-Forever-One-Last-Time-Television-Trilogy-Preservation-Set-SW-Commercial-Breaks-The-Ordeal-Is-Real-and-available-Use-with-Satisfaction/post/424617/#TopicPost424617

see you auntie wrote: Is none the new canofhumdingers?

Except none doesn't have the same ring to it - sorry none :)

Nah these were known, here's another previous discussion of them.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-THE-ULTIMATE-EXPERIENCE-Is-Forever-One-Last-Time-Television-Trilogy-Preservation-Set-SW-Commercial-Breaks-The-Ordeal-Is-Real-and-available-Use-with-Satisfaction/post/424617/#TopicPost424617

Would be nice if they had a name.  Maybe 'Ben' and 'Burtt', how about 'The Faults', Ben's Fault and Burtt's Fault.  Since he seems to have been the one who made them.

The reason they've resurfaced, as when they were removed the shot seems to have been recomp'd which is part of the goal of the thread.

What's the criteria for adding to the list a reframed shot?

This is GOUT English (Top) and SWSE TB, 3po and R2 are pushed left in the SE.  The rest of the sequence does not have this noticeable a shift.

One step at a time, this petition should be about getting the AotC teal shift applied to all the movies.

Change we all can teal in.

Ahhh waste of government resources, but humorous effort by those involved, kudos

*EDIT*

Understand the sentiment but there's no traction there, if they had worded it to get the Library of Congress film print versions into the Public Domain by Presidential Order....  Can they revise the wording.  No biggie, it's the message being sent not the actual carrying out of actual change.

Free Shipping!

If he was sterile.

^ RotS Han child concept sketch

Agree this is great.  Been wondering how to classify or create a percentage of what's been modified over the years, with the idea of using those numbers to compare to GL quotes where he goes, "the films were x% complete".  Then do the math to see if we are getting closer to that 100% mark.  (...or if the 2004 set pushed it past the 100% mark...)

Has anyone come across the number of shots there actually are in these movies?  Remember reading random talk about modern movies having so many quick shots that a movie could get into the 1k-2k range? (seems high)  If that's the case, with 276 SE changes, that's a quarter to an eighth.  So if the original film was 70% then modifying a quarter means the 97SE was in the upper 90's%, then the 2004 rejiggering should push past the 100% mark...

(aside: was interesting to see in some of the recent BR deleted scenes from Lowry how the counters document how long the shot lasts.)

Could we get this excel doc?  Or have a version everyone could update: http://www.google.com/google-d-s/spreadsheets/