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Join us as we attempt to figure out what PS78 is?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/NEW-possibly-2nd-Generation-77-78-Bootleg/post/582847/#TopicPost582847

And as you watch, consider dropping into the OT.com IRC:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Does-the-IRC-channel-still-exist/post/458805/

Server: irc.scifi-fans.net

Ports 6660-6668,7000

Try joining "OriginalTrilogy"

zombie84 wrote: Have you guys been keeping a running tally like I was here

Yes.  Took your initial set up and continued/expanded in these spreadsheets:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Shot-List-Spreadsheet-v0505-6-films-publicly-editable/topic/13403/

This is the current version:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdDJORXlfTDBIN0NaQXlWMk51Q2tOR0E

It is missing new finds from the last 2-3 months.  There are multiple calculations the one closest to your spreadsheet is version 2. (column 2473)  As these totals are done per year; below that are totals of each new modified release added to the next. (column 2478)  So where the SSW.com page total was 307, we're now at 498. (thru the 2011 blu-ray)

If you'd like to add to your page some video of George talking about the SE changes, in the last few posts are some quotes (which are confusing when taken together) but maybe having those quotes will show how confusing this was then and still is now.  (George mentions 700, 375 and 110)  Along with the Tom Christopher number of 748, should leave everyone reading with a mild headache.  I can put the video clips somewhere if you think they'd fit in.

^ part of the Pixelmash Collection: http://foldsfive.blogspot.com/2008/06/pixelmash-collection.html (they've done SW and RotJ too)

Going with the redo theory, would they have re-filmed the lettering or just recomp'd as maybe some new development was figured out in optics?

Looking at crawl production pics:

SW - (early crawl).................................... ESB

The light rigging box looks the same between movies.  The cameras don't look the same but since I can't name the parts, not sure how much is just redressing.

poking around, Sam Longoria says:

http://emusingmusic.blogspot.com/2011/05/typographic-rage.html

The artwork for a filmed title sequence, while hand-assembled from Letraset rub-on letters, as you assert, were not silk-screened onto a glass plate.

They would instead be shot on a stat camera, onto high-contrast Kodalith film. That's pretty standard, for movie title work.

The artwork that went before the ILM VistaVision Dykstraflex motion-control camera, performing its title crawl, (operated by Richard Edlund in your photo), was most probably a big black strip, assembled from sheets of Kodalith film (with white titles on a black field) and black paper, all held together by black photographic tape.

That would be taped onto the top surface of a fan-cooled Light Box, mounted atop the Dykstraflex's main rail, on the floor.

I've shot lots of titles on animation stands, and I was on hand at ILM in 1980, as they shot the "Episode IV: A New Hope" crawl, to replace the original "Star Wars" title.

What I saw that day looked to be Kodalith film artwork on the light box, as it shot that artwork onto VistaVision 35mm color negative.

White letters on a black field, to be composited in the optical printer over the starfield. Yellow title color would be achieved at that stage, as you mentioned.

http://samlongoria.blogspot.com

So let's get our thoughts together, and send over a question or two.  The blog is still active.

As Richard Edlund's in the first shot, he's got a website too: http://www.richardedlund.com/home

Thanks for these, interesting seeing them at this scale. At this res maybe able to determine something.  Why is the outer ring so yellow?

Something odd, on the far right, why does the horizon line jump for the last 5 or so vertical lines?

Your 4 pics and Mallwalker's frame counting lead me to want to redo the Reel/Cue page.  Got to this point of the new format:

http://fd.noneinc.com/cue/cue.html

But then realized, why not just have the full video, as the audio change over is part of the experience, so currently re-evaluating.  But comments welcomed.

AntcuFaalb wrote: I can't get much information out of him.

How did the discussion go when your cohort mentioned he had this recording?

It can't be the mono mix. Luke clearly says "Blast it, Biggs!

Ok that's good to nail down.

AntcuFaalb wrote: the source VHS cuts off right after displaying "Robert Watts".

Is it a hard cut or is there some VCR static.  That's one of the problems of using this as an identification method, as tapes are just over 2 hours long, so is it cut because the original tape ran out or was it cut because it was part of the bootleg market and shortened reproduction time helped crank out the copies.

AntcuFaalb wrote: Assume it's not from a 16mm film source and we're 100% certain that it doesn't have the mono mix. What's left? That is, what might it be from?

16mm has not been ruled out.  Both stereo and mono mixes were available in 16mm prints sold in the late 70s.  As the vertical cropping is more then the 16mm, that's a factor which leans us in that direction.  But not definitively.

Finding a flaw which could give us a sense of scale of the original print is an aspect to look out for at this point.  For instance if a hair shows up, how much of the screen does it takes up will give us a sense of how large the original frame was.  Another place to look for these flaws are at leaders, reel changes or where pieces of the film are missing.  These pieces of the film may have been marked up by someone and the size of the pencil or pen may provide a clue.

Reel change/Cue location with pics and approximate times are mentioned here:

http://fd.noneinc.com/Reel_Changes/Reel_Changes.html

Discussed here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Reel-lengths/topic/11666/

AntcuFaalb wrote: OK, I'm ripping DVDs 1 and 2 of my XP Mode recording. There's ~1 minute of (intentional) overlap between the two. Should I join them or post each DVD separately?

Doesn't personally matter to me.  What is your goal?  Not sure why you are ripping the DVDs.  ('ripping' to me generally is the process of taking an existing DVD and converting it to another format, maybe you're using this term to define the digitization of the VHS to DVD format)  If this is a preview to figure out what this version is then size and quality are not as important.  In the past when people converted media, it was done to a standard disc size, a CD of around 750mb was common.  If you are viewing this as the best preservation you are capable of (quality matters) then leave each DVD as is.  The laserdisc format required several discs for each movie, to maintain quality the same can be done with the DVD5 format.  (Moth3r's 77 boot was preserved this way; 2xDVD5)  Were you thinking of combining the discs to make a DVD9?  People often balk at dual layer media as it's not considered common enough, and the dual layer break can be a problem.  Save the work, leave each disc as is.

What maybe of note is the brightness, details in the shadows like the machinery just to the right of R5's head often gets blended into the background.

frank678 wrote: Or after the tape it was recorded on the 'VK250' bootleg

That's a good idea.  According to: http://www.pandahi.com/1008157804.html

(RCA assigned the number "VK 250" for their brand of two hour capacity tapes that was later reassigned as the generic term "T 120")

The 'T-120' name is still used today.  The 250 may have referred to the vertical resolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS

In a season 1 episode they sold off a Naboo Guard jacket.  On a different show, Storage Wars (S03E02) a Revenge of the Jedi jacket was found.

This weeks episode of Hollywood Treasure (S02E05) they attempt to auction a full 3po costume (used for an FAO Schwartz display, then bought by Disney) and they brought in the model maker Don Post: http://www.starwarshelmets.com/don_post_life-sizes.htm  Post was allowed to given access to the LFL archives and used the original forms.

The Yoda rehearsal puppet was owned by the son of the creator Mrs. Froud (Dark Crystal) who was working for Henson.  Freeborn hadn't finished his puppet yet, so this version was used on set while they were doing setup preparations.

*EDIT*

and Jeremy Bulloch shows up (very briefly) in S02E04.  but they put a price tag of 1m on the Boba costume.

AntcuFaalb wrote: I'm staying up late tonight to do the VHS->DVD conversion.

Work at a pace where you'll make less mistakes.  The tape has been sitting for decades.

Moth3r wrote: It's not the same source as the widescreen bootleg I shared.  That source was horizontally compressed like this one, but also had black bars top and bottom.

What is the "high-end VHS-to-DVD converter" you've bought?

Agree this is something new to this community.  You mentioned your budget but what is the specific machine?  That'll clue in the tech minds around here on the limitations of your capture and what may improve enlisting outside assistance.

AntcuFaalb wrote: I think I'll go with PSB (PornShopBoot, PornStrikesBack, PuggoStrikesBack

As this is new, yup you get to name it.  (there already is a PSB in the works)  But before you do let's attempt to get some more information on it's background.  As there's the porn store story behind it, maybe the tape owner has another story about it's origin or their remembrances of the tape.  Would be interested to where geographically the tape was purchased.  (town or state)  A recently emerged 77 audio recording was named after the person who recorded it.  Naming is not always that easy.  Maybe the original tape owner can ask their dad about the buying of it.  How much did he pay?  100-250 dollars?  We're other dads doing the same?

On the store connection, as VCR recordable decks were thousands of dollars in the 70s, to stay afloat i'd guess you'd have to deal with all types of videos and as porn was reaching a new audience because of the lower costs, makes sense the two would hang out together.

Personally, I like pictures of the tape (connection to the past), if you can scan them or take a photo, would be nice as part of the final preservation.

Since this is cropped differently in the vertical, there is a chance this is a 16mm preservation. (similar to Puggo Grande, Krig and Catnap)  This version is cropped more vertically then the 16mm.

From the pics is anyone leading towards any transfer method? 

How long is the recording?  If this is a theater boot from 78 there's a chance pieces could be missing.  From what you've watched are there any signs of it being a well worn print, with some wear and tear?

^ what Asaki is referring to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoxIegtNws

A place to start is which audio mix is it: Starkiller's Mono Mix guide can help you out: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/  The rebel blockade runner alarm is one early in the tape which can be used to verify.

Here's a comparison of mthr's widescreen bootleg and this version:

mthr...................................PornShopBoot

As these seem similar, one certain  way to verify if they are from the same source is this frame:

Something else to check is in the end credits (are there any?) please look at the John Williams credit.  Is there a space between his name and the London Symphony Orchestra or are they close together?

*EDIT* Ignore this below.  As the opening crawl is widescreen it is not the version mentioned in this next sentence.

(original post)

Please jump to the first reel change over mark and look for a quick brown blob which may come in from the right.  Here is a pic of what to look out for:

This is a known bootleg (Starkiller, MeBeJedi/77_ANH_BOOTLEG & TWC326) which is closer to 20 generations away from the source.  Hard to tell but maybe your version is related to this one. 

*EDIT*

Yes, interested even if it's the same.

http://coolmaterial.com/roundup/old-red-jalopy-posters/

Did the ratings card (below) appear only on film trailers or has it shown up in home video releases as well?  (example from a RotJ trailer)

Short clip of GL (1980s?) giving a speech at a Joseph Campbell banquet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSyyqctan2c

Anyone recognize what doc. this is from?  Is more of this banquet to be found somewhere?

^ http://vimeo.com/5494280  (source David Berry)

neeto recent stuff from his account:

Operating an Optical Printer 1978 :http://vimeo.com/42935675

Much of this depends on how much work you're willing to put in.  A list of the items will help people spot things they are interested in.  If not a list, then spread the stuff out on the floor and take a picture.

Toys you could go to a reseller like http://brianstoys.com/  A main hub for SW toys buying and selling is: http://rebelscum.com/

As for magazines and comic, there are fan scanners who would be interested in certain titles.  Otherwise ebay is a place to sell blocks of stuff.  Your local comic book store might buy a chunk.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Backstroke-of-the-West-Dubbed-Version/topic/12124/

How many clips are missing?

^ according to this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code  that's the mantra.

There is no original version (that everyone can agree is original), option 2.

Don't Copy That Floppy.

^ If you're comfortable with sendspace then you can split the disc using RAR: http://www.rarlab.com/ then upload the two parts which are under the limit.

Other services have higher limits: http://uppit.com (500mb), http://www.yousendit.com/ (?), http://www.4shared.com/ (?), http://www.dropbox.com/ (?), http://www.mediafire.com/ (?)

You can rename a thread from the first post.  One of the moderators may merge this thread with your other.

Baronlando wrote: Star Wars connection isn't the source of goodwill it would have been a few years ago. Maybe they should de-emphasize it.

Tobar wrote: I saw a rough cut of 5-25-77 in 2007.

From what i've read the main gist of the movie is not Star Wars, it's just the launching point/eureka moment.  So Tobar, how critical is the Star Wars connection in the version you saw?  And what did it seem was missing which this money could be going towards.