musicman

Originally posted by: Troy
Does anyone think a one epic edit of all the Back To The Futures could work? And I don't mean just link them all together one after the other. I mean start with Part I as normal but then when you get to Marty in the 50's you start seeing the relevent shots of Part II appearing, I'm a bit stuck after that I'm not sure wether to go back into the first film for the ending. Actually hang on it just isn't going to work is it? What would happen after you get to 2015. Oh forget it.

Originally posted by: Doctor M
SOTDS? I'm not familiar with that one... can you give the full title or a link to the thread?

Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Let's remember the Jedi never learn Darth Maul's (now Darth Grievous') name in Episode I. So it's not like Obi-Wan would be, "You're Darth MAUL!?!?" Keeping this in mind allows Maul to be referred to as Grievous in Episode I, and Grievous be referred to as Grievous in Episode III without any kind of reveal necessary until his confrontation with Obi-Wan. And dialogue hints would be best dropped in earlier in the film, such as when Anakin and Obi-Wan surround him on the bridge, Grievous can say something like, "This feels familiar, but not this time Kenobi!" as he jumps out the window. A shame he doesn't fight Anakin and Obi-Wan a bit with his double-sided vibroblade; that would be an awesome connection, but I don't think any amount of special effects wizardry an pull that off. The dialogue has to be vauge enough to where Obi-Wan doesn't realize who it is he's fighting until that key moment in the duel, at which point we need a brilliant line to tie it all together. Unfortunately the only thing I can think of at the moment is the atrocious "I have killed your master! Now it is your turn to die young Jedi!" from the Episode I video game.

Yeah, it's tough. Fortunately, the dubbing is completely open there, since Grievous doesn't have a mouth to worry about. I think we were planning to dub Maul and Grievous, so that shouldn't be a problem. Another thing to consider is Obi-Wan's reaction. Something to consider for TPM is making it more clear that Obi-Wan is teetering on the Dark Side in his rage. I don't know if this is possible, but the whole Maul thing could've been a real opportunity to see Obi-Wan face the Dark Side and come away from it. It's kind of there in TPM, but it isn't definitely purposeful. I honestly don't know how Obi-Wan should react in ROTS. It seems like that DS issue would have been dealt with in TPM, but as it is, it's kind of open for us to try what we want to with it, as long as Grievous is under discussion.

Just an update on that Anakin/Obi-Wan duel, I put it together a LONG time ago and looking over it, there's a lot I'd like to refine before sharing it with everyone, so it'll be next week before I upload it. Speaking of which, what service do you guys suggest I use for uploading clips?

Originally posted by: Trooperman
Some excellent Ep. III ideas from Musicman.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The Jedi are evil!

I really love this exchange. For this and other dialogue suggestions, I'd need to go back and look at Ep. III to find out if and how it would work (and of course we'd need someone that sounded like Ewan McGregor. Better yet- send a copy of SOTDS to Ewan McGregor and actually get HIM to do it! Ha ha. This probably isn't possible, but I think that this exchange would be even better at the beginning of the duel, rather than all the "Only Sith deal in absolutes" and "I will do what I must".

Much more dramatic is to have Anakin choke Padme, Obi-Wan come down from the ship, and then have the exchange.


ANAKIN
I should have known the Dark Side had the true power!

OBI-WAN
Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!

ANAKIN
The JEDI are evil! (read James Earl Jones style)


Enter dramatic, exciting music (not "Battle of the Heroes", which I felt was rather weak personally) as they throw off their cloaks and begin to fight.

Somehow, there's got to be a way to remove the lava surfing section. And Anakin/Darth does not say things like, "My point of view" during a life or death duel on a lava planet.

Thanks! Yeah, getting Ewan to record the dialogue would be great... Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get Hayden and Ewan to shoot the footage for our new dialogue? Man, the ideal situation!

If you place the exchange at the beginning, though, you have to deal with the fact that the footage comes from the duel over the lava, and it might take some background changing to work. There is also a section in the exchange on the landing (when Obi-Wan leaves the ship) where you see Anakin's face, and Obi-Wan's back is to the camera, but Anakin is far enough away that his mouth is indistinguishable as far as what he's saying, so I think that might be a good place to insert some dialogue. You could put the lava exchange there in theory, but I think it would be preferable to have some new dialogue there that's more appropriate and specific to the situation.

I didn't think the lava "surfing" was so bad--it's not as blatant as Legolas's shield surfing, since they are perched on the droids and platforms that are floating over the lava. I'm just glad GL didn't have them doing surfing moves while they dueled. But possibly more important than preference is the challenge of cutting it out. I don't know if it's really possible. If you can work it out, though, I'm curious to see how it works! More necessary is to digitally erase that shot-stealing droid that flies into frame when they are crossing over. That just ticked me off so bad.

And, Trooperman, you don't like Battle of the Heroes?

I thought it was really good. It had to grow on me, but it didn't take long. I'm wondering if the editing would help the music and the action to meld better...? Also, don't underestimate the power of faulty mixing. I've heard music that I loved on CD but was tremendously disappointed with in the film because it was mixed so low. Volume can have an impact on how well music meshes and enhances. Maybe try two versions, one with BotH and the other with whatever alternate is come up with. Once there's a cut of the duel, if you like I can try editing the original cues to fit the new cuts, and likely upmix it to see how that works. I will keep an open mind though--I thought you were nuts when you mentioned the thought of replacing the title music for SOTDS, and now I'm seriously looking forward to it. We'll see how it goes.



Yeah, definitely. I don't know if you want to plan this far ahead, but I can go ahead and map out the duel. I don't have the original DVD, but I do have ADM's cut, which if I recall is pretty close to the original. From there I'll put in all my ideas for changes, and then everyone else can contribute. It's a long way off, but we can't do anything solid right now, so we might as well get planning done--I'm still working on the "spotting" for everything. I am getting some ideas. One of the major challenges is the foresight necessary to do this; keeping all of the available music and sequences in line and making sure I don't reuse stuff that is already getting tracked in altered form. It's cool, though.

I guess the other question that has to be asked is- why did Anakin go to the Dark Side. Was it all for love, to save Padme based on a 15-second dream? This is pretty stupid because Padme dies at the end of the film, and he still sticks around. I know the line about the Dark Side "dominating" one's destiny once they start down the path, but honestly, it's very weak. I think the better explanation is that he's troubled by the loss of his mother, Obi-Wan is restricting him to the extreme (remember in SOTDS he made Anakin take a vow of celibacy, which he breaks), and here's Palpatine with the Dark Side. Palpatine is not only friendly towards him, he teaches him to be powerful. Using the Dark Side is more fun. It's "quicker and easier", as Yoda said in ESB.

The main problem would be showing that this is the case with the footage given.

Originally posted by: Trooperman
Hi Savage- Nice to hear you are also following the project! After the long delays, I really can't wait to have it done.

I believe that the original lettering that was used is unknown. I tried to find that info a while ago, but nobody seemed to know. For the 2004 DVD's, it's some variant of News Gothic. I just took my card from Empire of Dreams and scaled it to match the OOT exactly.




I don't have any more of the King's Row score at this time. I've looked on Amazon, however, and there appears to be a digital recording of a large portion of "King's Row" done in the late 1980's. I'll probably be picking that up soon...

Originally posted by: Trooperman
A couple things that you mentioned in the SOTDS thread is the Maul=Grievous issue and where Sidious will come in. It seems like those would be pretty major things. How are you going to handle that, Trooperman?

I left that issue ambiguous- there is no Grievous scene in SOTDS, mainly because it would require SPFX beyond my abilities and because I don't know how Ep. I and III are being handled yet.

While I'm at it I'll try to find the major plot stuff in the script--in fact, I think there was a rough outline some pages back. I'll look into everything.

There is a script by CC on Erik's Starkiller webpage; ironically I have not yet read it because I haven't been given the password

Originally posted by: Trooperman
This is partially my fault- finishing SOTDS earlier I think would really have increased enthusiasm and jump-started the project.

If it's of any help, I can go back over all the notes and discussions I've had and sort of "spot" the movie on my own and chart all ideas that I have for each scene. I need to revisit the script and see some of the notes scoring wise, but I'll probably start on my own and we can work from there. Just to keep all of the ducks in a row on my end.

That'd be great. I personally am confused about what's happening with Ep. I plotwise- there was some discussion of killing off Nute in Ep. I, which would cause a major continuity error in SOTDS (which you'll understand after watching).

I don't know- I can kind of understand why not much work has taken place yet- maybe you want to make sure that SOTDS is not an amateurish piece of garbage before putting in all kinds of time to complete the trilogy.

And you will all find out in April (May at the absolute latest)....

From the SOTDS:

really the bottom line: CC is in charge of Starkiller Ranch, and we need to know where he stands on this.

This is true- however, do not underestimate the power of MTHaslett Storywise, MTH was a HUGE influence during the cutting, and when making Ep. I, I would value his opinion very highly. He's busy lately and doesn't post much publicly, but he's still around.

Originally posted by: Ell the Ewok
Napolian Dinomight, the worst film ever!

Originally posted by: Tiptup
I too liked how Obiwan was the good guy of the prequel trilogy. (Unfortunately George didn't make him the main character as he should have.) Though I agree with Gaffer that he should have made more mistakes.




Yeah, I remember when Zombie first described the change. It helps everything make more sense in terms of how the movie was made. It just really leaves much to be desired. I preferred the new approach actually; it gave Anakin a personal reason for turning (one where he became likable for the first time), it simply just wasn’t good enough to explain what he then went on to do (at least not in a way where he remains likable at all).

In actuality though, the real fault in this situation was George’s sloppy thinking. He changed his mind while making the prequel trilogy and decided that someone as evil as Darth Vader should never be able to repent and be redeemed. So he invented some bullshit about the good Anakin Skywalker being killed by the evil Darth Vader (in his head or something) and then being resurrected by his two children in Return of the Jedi (somehow). He actually thought that was a brilliant idea I’m guessing.