msycamore

Nice, looking forward to this!

A little bumping.

No, they weren't, but I wouldn't call the '04 alterations an effort. ;)

Edit: Here you have an example of the original sabers in the '97SE

To me it looks like they just altered Obi-Wan's saber in 2004 not Vader's, I may be wrong though...

That's nice, pittrek. I knew his comparison list would be useful for things like this. :)

Yes, they are. That scene didn't go through any alterations in '97. Here's comparison pic 149 as it's always nice to see it for yourself.

1997 SE (aspect ratio isn't entirely correct on this one, manually adjusted)

If you want to cover more of those saber-flashes, you also have the later wide shots of that battle etc.

erri_wan said:

to your advantage, I have marked clearly which parts are added and which are removed. However I am not coordinating the timing but simply replacing the lines where these appear on the original subtitled film. I don't have the program to do the synchronizing, I hope some of you guys is equipped for sub sync.

That's perfect! don't worry about the timings, I'll get to that later on. Keep up the good job, erri_wan! :)

Should I perhaps retitle this thread?

zombie84 said:

Here is my rationale to reconcile this: the ANH sabers were largely in-camera. Unlike ESB and ROTJ, the sabers in the first film used reflective blue-screen-like material to produce the glow in-camera. In post, they realised it wasn't enough so they added the coloured feather-glow. So, the glowing cores aren't an effect--they are right on the original raw camera negative. So when you start layering on other elements and re-rotoscoping them, you still have the same flickering cores, because that was actually photographed in real life. My  2 cents.

That is exactly what's going on. You actually see the rotating material underneath in many scenes, more so in the SE.

I know the Falcon saber and battle saber was photographed that way, but what about the cantina saber and Ben's hut?

zombie84 said:

And Msycamore, I have never noticed those colour inconsistencies (but maybe because the only time I watch the 2004 SE is to take frame grabs to show how shitty it is).

That's what I did. ;) But seriously, those are everywhere. They really had fun when they did this DVD set.

Nice job, doubleofive! Those saber impact flashes in the battle looks horrible in the DVD, if you look carefully, you can see they only have the core left, and a very dull core that is, what happened to the outer glow? they don't even look like flashes, more like a light-green mess.

Also, all those Vader vs. Obi-Wan changes are 2004 alterations, I compared the '97 transfer with your finds and the flashes are identical to the original film in that one.

Maybe you could try http://www.sendspace.com/ instead, I don't think they convert it.

This look promising! :)

Welcome, THX! Nice to have you aboard! I echo what SilverWook said, a company who would touch this, would be a great asset indeed. :)

SilverWook, sad to hear you're not feeling well, hope the weather and your health soon gets better. Nice to hear you got that player repaired. :)

erri_wan and SilverWook, personally I think this forum work just fine for the discussions and plans we may have, either by PM or in this thread, also people who then may observing this from a distance will see what's going on, like the guy who just popped in. :) I'm also too slow when it comes to typing anyway ;) so taking this in a chat or in messenger wouldn't be a good option, at least not for me, add to that the different time zones... but I understand the thought behind it.

Here you go, 1997 SE

and I really don't think you should begin to cover these color issues, because they are everywhere! and you know that, and then you will never be done with this. ;) But that's just my opinion, I just mentioned it earlier to demonstrate how color can switch from scene to scene in these DVD transfers, someone basically sat and played with the color values when making these, so having those color issues on this list is just wrong IMO when they aren't changes per se, there's also a few color glitches on some optical effects in the GOUT, but nothing like the '04 DVD fiasco. Here's a few more subtle color issues, some will not notice them at first glance, but when you're familiar with the colortiming of these films, this really distract you.

a few moments later, the correct green coloring lights on R2 is back

this one, maybe isn't that subtle, but it's one of those before and after shots, just a second apart from each other

And so on... this is how it goes on in the whole film. Some are subtle but when it happens when a lightsaber are on screen, it doesn't get so subtle anymore. That's why you have blue lightsaber turned green, blue lightsaber turned purple and blue lightsaber turned white etc. at least that's my theory. But that's just the color issue, you could basically write a book on all the horrible problems with these DVD's, everything went wrong.

About that chasm-matte, you have three shots of the chasm, the first shot of the chasm is from a slightly different angle, but the same painting is used on all three, that's why the mattepainting didn't lign up so good on that first one as on the other two. Sorry for not explaining it better the first time around. ;) Nice eye, doubleofive! didn't notice that little pan, it must be related to that matte problem.

Here is what I mean, the two shots after this one uses a slightly better composite.

and as I stated on the last page, the remote laser color glitch is 2004 exclusive. I think this also means that the "tractor beam shaft" mattepainting is the only one left alone, am I right? Thank you Mr. Ellenshaw! ;)

Yeah, that was actually the one who made me suspect they had recomped all lightsabers in this sequence, but I'm still not sure about them all to be honest, so you should not take what I suspected as fact, doubleofive. ;) and you picked the wrong chasm-matte pics, the 2nd and 3rd are identical, the first have a quite visible seam.

I think what zombie is talking about is the two wide shots, in those they actually made a new saber from scratch in '97, at least in the establishing shot, I'm not sure of the other, have to take a look. If you look carefully, you can see that it's slightly longer and lacks the original sabers characteristic flickering.

Edit: I did take a look, and both those shots seems to just have a digitally extended top, you can actually see where the original saber ended by looking at the glow, the tip of the blade doesn't have any.

Welcome to the board, Video Collector and thanks for the willingness to sharing these rare gems of yours. :) Even though the quality is crude, as you said the Jedi bootleg will be of a great reference to the subs, some will maybe find the locations of the reel-changes to be interesting etc. you never know what to find. This is great! :)

Red5 said:

Here's another error NTSC (top), PAL (bottom) 149900

The GOUT master seems to have a weird glitch in these frames. The following frames also have it. The light in the wall also lacks the color it should have.

NTSC GOUT

NTSC GOUT notice the colored lights

Here is how that first frame you posted looks in the JSC laserdisc

That was a mighty impressive collection! thanks for the link, LexX. That rare Empire bootleg could possibly be a great source for reference, I hope he have digitized it.

I was actually serious in my statement, because the versions included in this upcoming set is not the actual films.

It definitely looks custom made, I may be wrong though.

I actually have no idea if there's any truth to those IMDB stories, the '78 version of Graffiti have the Dolby system in the end credits, that's mostly why I said the end credits were slightly altered. That one is picky. ;) Btw that Dolby mix on the DVD is one of the best 2.0 surround tracks I've ever heard, I can only imagine how great it must be in lossless PCM.

At least one vintage review in The Hollywood Reporter dated the day after its wide american release in '71 mention the Buck Rogers segment: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-American-Graffiti-LD-preservation-request/topic/11741/page/7/

Anchorhead said:

American Graffiti only really has a title card change. Aside from that it's just an early version of a Director's Cut.  I'd hardly call American Graffiti "Lucas gone cgi-crazy version".  On the  other hand, Star Wars, Empire, Return, and THX are most definitely "Lucas gone cgi-crazy" versions.

If he alters even one scene of Graffiti for a Blu-ray version, I'll buy another copy or two of the 98 DVD. 

Yeah, that statement of mine was melodramatic, I admit. But it's still an unnessary tweak that reflects a CGI-crazy director. So I feel comfortable calling it that even though it doesn't change the storyline. The "altering box" have been opened...

EDIT: I must say though, that many of us would have been damn happy if we got the same kind of DVD release for Star Wars as we got with this '98 DVD, that basically would mean a beautiful anamorphic 1981 version. Sure we would still lament the absence of a '77 opening, the only thing that made me happy about the GOUT DVD.

Haven't finished all 6 movies?! Just one of the trilogy would be a major accomplishment IMO, pittrek. :) Have you your own thread dedicated to these hybrids you are working on that I have missed? I'm very interested to see and hear about your personal project and what your methods are, and what results you're getting. And why are you working on 6 movies? I'm curious.

zombie84 said:

Both great. I wonder if there is something similar to Graffiti and Raiders; I know its only a couple shots, but someone must have made a page about them.

The first one I linked to is pretty much complete, it have some errors in it but it gets the important message out.

It would be nice to have a little comparison of the subtle visual changes done to Graffiti and Raiders. Haven't seen one done yet as they are so few.

captainsolo said:

Wasn't the the re-release cut of THX the original film? I could understand why the theatrical was never released (although I would want to see it like Touch of Evil).

Yes, that is correct.

I think part of what Chainsaw Ash meant is, if you're going to be extra picky, we don't have any true reference shots to see what was actually restored for the original cuts vs original releases. American Graffiti apparently got a new and slightly altered end credits along with a new Dolby mix in '78 that shouldn't have been there in Lucas original '73 cut if the studio had not interfered, same thing with THX 1138, these days it's hard to know exactly what that cut looked like in '71. At least for Graffiti we know what scenes got restored in '78.

The old home video versions are Lucas' "restored original cuts", but the original theatrical releases should be preserved anyway IMO. One of the nice things about preservations of different cuts, is that you can study the films history. At this point we only have a "Lucas gone cgi-crazy version of both films", I wonder what he will change when Graffiti soon goes blu-ray.

Vintage clip from an documentary about ILM's various matte paintings, (Temple of Doom, Return of the Jedi and Raiders). With Paul Huston & Mike Pangrazio http://vimeo.com/10563431

Short but sweet, I wonder what documentary it's from? 

Edit: found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw3EvuRkQVw ;)

As a followup to my last post I recently noticed that the 1982 Laserdisc transfer actually have the canyon dark in the first shot but goes to the brighter light it was shot in after that.