msycamore

So, how is it going with the syncing erri_wan?

Just so you know, I posted the scripted SEN scene here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/448800/#TopicPost448800 It could maybe be handy if the actual english dialogue is hard to make out in that scene, if it follows the script, that is. Just a thought.

About that extended scene and TV-logo... I was also thinking the same thing, SilverWook. Maybe the last reel is from a different print. Were they all in equal shape?

Can you please post a screen-cap of the opening title from your 16mm print? Don't bother if it means too much trouble for you, just a little curious to see how it looks, were they green?

dark_jedi said:

msycamore said:

and this is what I used:

########## black level/gamma, hue
Levels(10,1.08,255,0,255).Tweak(hue=-4,sat=1.3)

a quite subtle approach as I think the GOUT video cannot handle too much saturation before it starts to bleed, try it out, d_j and see if you like it. I will take a look at yours and see how it compares.

I tried that and it does look better, but I wouldn't mind just a tiny bit more, like maybe an in between setting from my sample and yours, have you done anymore testing?

No I haven't, that was just a setting I landed on when I did my encode a few weeks ago. I did take a look at yours and I would recommend that you take down your saturation a few steps, even with my settings the GOUT almost starts to bleed in some places, this old video master simply cannot handle the color values of a Technicolor print.

Your sample

My encode

You could of course get better results tweaking scenes individually, IMO the Canyon scene with R2 needs a little Cyan applied to closer resemble the theatrical colortiming, and then we have the completely different colortiming on the Binary Sunset that needs some drastic individual tweaks to closer match the real thing. But that seems to be a real bitch to do in Avisynth, I experimented a little with that a while ago, but didn't get any satisfactory results. Also I think Empire needs less color saturation than SW, it starts to bleed much earlier IIRC, don't sure about Jedi but I guess it also needs lesser saturation to look any good. 

I would also suggest that you hold on before making new final encodes, I'll improve and update my sub-scripts soon.

I gave my latest encode of g-force's latest script a little color boost, I think his earlier ones had it, I don't know why he decided to remove it, as I think it improves the image.

the values on g-force latest script is:

########## black level/gamma, hue
Levels(10,1.08,255,0,255).Tweak(hue=-3)

and this is what I used:

########## black level/gamma, hue
Levels(10,1.08,255,0,255).Tweak(hue=-4,sat=1.3)

a quite subtle approach as I think the GOUT video cannot handle too much saturation before it starts to bleed, try it out, d_j and see if you like it. I will take a look at yours and see how it compares.

Unfortunately, there isn't that much you can do with the internal tweak function, positive values adjust the hue towards red and negative towards green, that's it.

See here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Theater-Performance-Preservations/post/458978/#TopicPost458978 

Just thought I would post some additional reference pictures of the Greedo subtitles from the 1982 Laserdisc, NJM posted one of these from the HBO broadcasted version earlier in this thread, the '82 LD uses the same transfer I guess. You can clearly see that it uses the same font as the original theatrical print if you compare them with the screen-caps on the first page, the lines are also broken up in the same way, just smaller with a different positioning due to pan & scan. I've also noticed that the Jabba subtitles in Jedi aren't exactly the same as the Greedo subtitles as I earlier thought, very close but not exactly, you can see that Jedi have smaller dots and some slightly different looking letters compared to SW, I assume it is the same font family just with a slight variation to it... I may obsessing a little too much over this but I find it interesting. ;) Just like how the "A long time ago"-preface differ slightly between the three original films.

Anyway, I intend to improve and update my sub-scripts located on the first page as soon as I get the time and the motivations for it, especially the Jedi script, if Video Collector's Jedi bootleg will shed some new light on the matter.

I agree, this is way too oversaturated. The faces look like carrots on my monitor. One of the reasons the colors appear so dull and washed out in these transfers is because of the clipped white levels. For example, try to reduce the contrast and you'll see that the colors come back without even touching the saturation slider. But this is all pretty much unrepairable just like the crushed black levels in the 2004 transfers.

Ah, ok. It was the LD's. When you said Flunk I thought you meant the Digi Betacam version, he only posted ANH, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/I-have-SWars-SEditions-on-Digi-Betacam-tape-you-want-my-dvd-tranfers/post/212663/#TopicPost212663 

Sorry, now I leave this, so I don't derail this thread.

So, there really was a Flunk release of Empire? I thought his DVD got corrupted and never got released? Can I ask where you got that XviD from, none?

doubleofive, someone else have to help you out with Empire '97 SE, I don't own that one, the only '97 SE version I have is ANH.

none, the ANH '97 SE screen-caps I have provided are from the broadcasts, Reivax and Flunk.

What the...! How the hell can that extended SEN scene be included?! or perhaps I should say, why was it removed on later video releases? Now I am really confused about all these versions.

It would've been logic to extend that scene if something else was cut for television, but you say this is the post '77 cut, nothing removed, with just that scene included, right? then this cut of THX 1138 is so far the longest version around, and why the TV-logo at the end... my head is exploding!

This is all really cool though, now we have that scene undubbed with the original audio! :) Depends on the condition of course.

Love those screencaps, I actually thought it would look even more scratched and dirty than this. What do you think, Silver, is it possible to get rid of most of that pink tint, how did your Grande look before you worked your magic on that, Puggo?

SilverWook said:

It didn't cost much, thankfully. Got it today.

Took a while to get rolling, as all three reels needed to be rewound. The projector also tortured me by munching up the leader on two reels.

This print is really pink and badly scratched. In spite of the WB/Kinney logo, it's the post '77 cut so far. (Watching this slightly out of order, so I haven't gotten to SEN scene with the kids yet to be 100% certain.) Curiously, the final reel has a WB television logo on the end, but nothing has been cut for tv.

I will attempt some screencaps from the DV tape, but it won't be a pretty sight!

Weird...

Glad the bulb didn't cost you too much, the faded and scratchy print was maybe to be expected, hopefully it will come to some use, thanks for the update.

Exciting indeed! I would really like to help you out, but unfortunately my Avisynth knowledge is about equal to yours, I guess. Maybe you could ask for some help in the how to section of this forum.

I looking forward to this anyway, with major telecine wobble or not. :)

Yeah, but what I think is really weird is those saber flashes in the duel, almost all of them in the DVD transfer looks like they have been eaten up by Lowry's dirt removal or something... I don't know, it looks really weird, just a green soft and dull core left, even if you correct the contrast levels you're still left without an outer glow, if even that. These 2004 transfers never ceases to amaze me, complete total disaster!

That was some nice and interesting news, thanks for writing to them, Zombie.

The Luke training scene on the Falcon was all done for the '97 SE, the saber in Ben's hut was also recomped for the '97 SE, they are identical in appearence to the 2004 DVD.

Obi-Wan's saber in the battle with Vader was redone in 2004, the battle was still all untouched in the '97 SE including those flashes.

Just let me know if you want me to post any examples.

Isn't the pan from Jabba to Han just an issue of missing frames in the GOUT? It sure looks like the splitscreen isn't perfectly lined up in that one, check the leaf the Jawa is holding.

I also wonder what SW print they have preserved, probably a 1981 print, with the redone opening.

Yes, that one above is a great example of the redone holograms, no scanlines and a different angle on the projection light.

You can see those animated little sparks a little better on the JSC.

As doubleofive said, they probably recomped it along with the hologram which is clearly a recomp. Nice little find, we need more people to help spot these little things.

Thanks erri_wan, I'm relieved. :)

Sorry to hear about the blown projector bulb. Damn, I guess that will be expensive for you. :(

Oh, the incorrect spelling is in the foreword of your article, where you link to his site, "Just ask Michael Kasinski!" It should be Kaminski, if I'm right.

Maybe I should've pointed it out directly to you instead, but I thought that little spelling error was so minor on such a great written article that it would just seem silly of me. Well, now you know. ;) Love your site!

No, Space-Empire is not used one single time within the films. It's a damn stupid title. :) We mostly don't see these kinds of stupid retitlings of foreign films nowadays. When I think about it, RymdImperiet could be translated as the Galactic Empire, but the swedish word "rymd" is translated space, we already have a word for galactic which is galaktisk, so it's stupid anyway, so if they must bother why not "Det Galaktiska Imperiet Slår Tillbaka" (The Galactic Empire Strikes Back).

SKot said:

Just for fun:

Literally translated, it's "Stars War And Peace".  It's the Swedish (subtitled) Star Wars Holiday Special, folks!

--SKot

Yeah, it's a pretty funny retitling.

As a Swede I was never that fond of the title "STJÄRNORNAS KRIG" (Stars War) it should have been "STJÄRN KRIGEN" (Star Wars) if they had to make a swedish title at all. Additional info, ESB in Sweden "RymdImperiet Slår Tillbaka" is translated as The Space-Empire Strikes Back. At least we don't dub our films. ;)

Nice to hear you are near completion, Puggo. I'm definitely interested, don't know if I have something to trade with though.

No hurry. I cannot start working on it until I get the files from SilverWook anyway. There is a few lines of com radio chatter that is almost inaudible in the english track also.

Very interesting and fascinating, love the info you provide! Some altered things originated probably from the original US release as Lucas himself said they altered Walter Murch sounddesign pretty much, but some things are really out there in terms of plot, some of it is really creative, if you can really call it that. ;) Would be very interesting to know how much similarities there is between this cut and the German as they at least share the same reordering of scenes. Very nice info, erri_wan. :)

Almost done! you're fast!

Yeah, that reordering of scenes doesn't make any sense in this cut, and it couldn't have making any sense for the Italian dubbers either, if they even cared. I guess it wasn't the localization A-team who worked on this one... THX must've been a very confusing experience for the Italian audience. :)

Interesting finds, thanks again for doing this!

THX11384EB, have you checked how that Japanese laserdisc of yours compares to the US one in picture quality? I'm interested to hear a second thought on which of them that would be the best choice to capture, or if a combination of the two is really the best option. Maybe you only own the Japanese LD?

Hope that 16mm print of yours is in good shape, Silver. I cross my fingers.

Happy new year everyone!