msycamore

doubleofive said:

First Transport is Away doesnt have CGI anything. There aren't CGI ships outside of ANH (minus the Vader shuttle). I'll have to go over it again.

These SE X-wings definitely look CG to my eyes, this is the only sequence it could be. There are also other places in the trilogy when they used CG-models for the SE.

This one in your Jedi comparisons is not an actual change/retiming of the scene, just another case of the splitscreen-DVD not being synced up exactly, probably due to different frame counts between the transfers.

Yeah, you're right. Definitely a different source.

Nice to read your progress on the bootlegs, thanks for the effort you put into getting these more watchable, I'm greatly looking forward to this!

none, to me it looks like they still could be from the same source.

Damn how much picture information the Catnap-transfer have to the right in this sequence! I knew Moth3r's bootleg was cropped, but I never thought it was that much.

I don't remember if you ever solved the chroma issue with the Flunk-version, d_j, but this line in your script will help to reduce that problem:

mergechroma(blur(1.0))

Great! :)

doubleofive said:

I'm not seeing the static grain in the GOUT to get a picture of it.

What they're talking about may not even be on the GOUT, it could also be hard to see due to the heavy DVNR applied, or the bad resolution. Just their description of it should be enough, besides you cannot even do a proper comparison of what they accomplished when the telecine turned out like this...

1997 SE

I actually think both shots were recomped for the SE, but it's impossible to know for sure though, besides the weird choice of colortiming the white sun always looked different to me in the SE, smaller and more spherical in shape...

...in the original film it is equal in dimension to the lower red sun, it cannot just be the clipped white levels that make it look that way, it looks like that in other transfers as well.

There's only one thing that is weird about all this, IIRC the bright white sun was the real location photographed one and the red one inserted in post or am I wrong?

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

I was actually thinking about this one earlier:

doubleofive, let me know if you need a screen-cap of the '97 binary sunset, or do you have access to your Special Edition now?

Rogue-theX, I can see now that you even re-worked the "2004-lizard" on your cover, nice touch. :)

I'm not entirely sure, but I think it was alternative artwork made for the limited 2004 release posters.

Nice, welcome aboard, Rogue-theX!  Assistance with future cover-art is very welcomed. Thanks. :) At this point we don't know if the Italian cut will be on a separate one or if we'll make this a 2-disc set.

IMO, we should not have the possible extras on the same disc as the "restored original cut" to sacrifice the much needed picture and sound quality on the main feature, so maybe on a separate disc or on the Italian feature disc. But this is all unnecessary to discuss at this point really, first we need to get this bad boy completed! ;)

Acording to the site, Sabre: A digital compositing and editing tool used on SGI computers.

Edit: Oh I see, that's the only sequence I can think of, weird.

"Vader to Hoth" was just a stupid headline for what time in the film the change occurs, that one is already covered in your list, it's "the first transport is away". Sabre composite means that it was done by the Sabre Group, that's my understanding of it. But yes, it is vague and it is random, but remember how much they didn't include in the 2006 list. ;)

Nice find, Bobby Jay! I've been searching for that old Treadwell site. :)

The official website, starwars.com posted an official list of changes made to the Trilogy way back when there only was the 1997 SE. That list is probably gone for good at their site, but I noticed when I went through my computer that I had those changes archived. Unfortunately, they're only in scripted form, but if I remember correctly most of them was presented that way on the site as well. Makes a few of them a little vague.

The list isn't that comprehensive and most of these changes we've already covered, but I'll post the whole list in case some of you find it interesting.

STAR WARS

• Opening Sequence: The original elements were recomposited to reduce optical dirt and grain buildup.
• A new digital matte painting has been added to the scene in which R2-D2 is in the canyon on Tatooine.
• New live action footage of stormtroopers has been added to the scene in which the Imperials search the droids' escape pod in the Tatooine Dunes. CG Dewbacks, ridden by stormtroopers, were also composited into the scene.
• A new enhanced scene shows a sandcrawler slowly moving over rocky terrain from a lower, more dramatic angle.
• A wider view of Luke's Farm was created using the original sandcrawler model.
• Tatooine Suns: Static grain was removed from the two suns shot; the recomposite reduced optical dirt as well. (Not on your list. I wonder if the close-up also was recomped)
• Red Sky: The color of the sky was matched to surrounding shots in the scene at Luke's farm in which Luke and C-3PO talk.
• The landspeeder's mirror was removed and a clean plate was created in each shot so that the hovering effect was more believable.
• A new shot of Obi-Wan's house, now located high on a hill, was added to the Special Edition, using a digital matte painting.
• New creatures have been added to the scene in which Luke's landspeeder zooms into the Mos Eisley spaceport, which has been enlarged with new CG buildings. On entering, small rodents known as scurriers jump out of his way, new robots and landspeeders make an appearance, and a huge dinosaur-like ronto rears back and throws his Jawa riders when a swoopbike flies too close. New CG shots of a ronto and new a flying droid have been added to the scene in which stormtroopers question Luke and Obi-Wan in Luke's landspeeder.
• Exterior shots of the Cantina incorporate new model and digital matte buildings and CG creatures, including dewbacks and stormtroopers. The shot in which R2-D2 and C-3PO hide from stormtroopers while waiting for Luke and Obi-Wan outside the Cantina has been enhanced by the addition of a ronto and new droids.
• Laser fire was added to Han and Greedo's blasters.
• Landspeeder Lot: The hanging backing sky color was replaced to better match surrounding footage.
• Artists at ILM created a CG model of Jabba to seamlessly insert into 20-year old footage shot of Harrison Ford, a shot that George Lucas was not able to use at the time.
• A new shot of the Millennium Falcon flying out of the Mos Eisley hangar bay.
• A new element -- a shock wave -- has been added to the scene in which the Death Star destroys the planet Alderaan.
• Death Star Approach: Original elements were recomposited to reduce optical dirt and grain buildup.
• A new CG matte painting has been added to the original plate of the Millennium Falcon in the Death Star hangar bay. (they list this two times)
• Elevator: The composites were recreated to reduce the mismatch in sharpness.
• In the original edition, Han Solo chases a group of stormtroopers down a Death Star hallway where they meet more stormtroopers and turn and chase him. In the Special Edition, the new stormtroopers have been digitally transformed into a platoon.
• The original matte painting was recomposited in the scene in which Luke and Leia are trapped at the Death Star bridge chasm by stormtroopers.
• A new CG Falcon model was added to the original scene in which the Falcon approaches Yavin.
• A new digital matte painting, CG ship models, and a CG Falcon model have been added to the original shots at the Rebel Base at Yavin.
• ILM's digital editing skills allowed a scene to be added back in, in which Biggs and Luke meet and talk on the Flight Deck before the Battle of Yavin.
• The scene in which the Rebel ships attack the Death Star has been digitally enhanced in many ways. A new CG shot in which X-wings gather in formation before attacking was added, replacing a scene that formerly had to be done in two shots. Many other battle shots were cleaned up with new CG additions.
• Explosion Fixes: Digital recomposites were used to reduce matte lines and restore color.
• Darth's Trio: Digital recomposites allowed tighter framing of the ships. (Not on your list)
• Millennium Falcon: CG ships travel in new flight paths.
• Luke's Hand: Two recomposites were done to correct matte edges and retain motion blur. (no idea what shots they refer to, but probably the one you have listed on pic, 278.)
• Exhaust Port: The torpedo animation was improved. (Not on your list)
• A new CG shock wave element has been added to the scene in which the Death Star explodes.
• In the brighter color timing, painted troops became obvious. Photographs were substituted in a digital matte recomposite.

• Color Reversal Internegative: Opticals created on CRI stock, which had deteriorated, were recomposited in various shots including the Star Destroyer capturing Leia's ship and X-wings flying through the Death Star trench.
• Original elements were recomposited to remove matte lines and correct color mismatches.

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

• Opening Sequence: Recomposite of Original elements. (Not on your list, not sure if they're referring to the opening crawl, or if they're talking about the next shot with all the probes dispatching)
• New live action has been added to the scene inside the lair of the Wampa, the abominable creature that attacks Luke while he's on patrol aboard a tauntaun. The Wampa is now seen eating carrion when Luke, hanging feet-first from the cave ceiling, awakens. New action shows the Wampa approaching Luke as he retrieves his lightsaber and attempts to free himself.
• Snow Rescue: Matte lines were removed in new composites.
• Original elements are combined with CG X-wing models in this scene where the Rebel fleet evacuates Echo Base on Hoth.
• Digital technology was used to clean up telltale matte lines around optically composited elements--where flying Rebel snowspeeders stand out against the icy planet's white snowfields. CG smoke elements were also added.
• Retreat from Hoth: Matte lines were eliminated in new composites.
• Original elements. Matte lines were erased and color was improved in this scene in which R2-D2 rides in Luke's X-wing just after the evacuation of Hoth.
• Asteroids: Recomposites reduced matte lines.
• Landing at Dagobah: Original elements. New CG composites and color fixes were done for the scene in which Luke's X-wing heads through space toward Dagobah.
• Star Destroyer Piggyback: Recomposite of original elements. (Not on your list)
• New computer graphic effects are used to create Boba Fett's ship Slave I, the Millenium Falcon, stars, and other space background elements in this scene where the Falcon escapes from a Star Destroyer disguised as "space junk" and is followed by Boba Fett.
• Many new additions have been made to scenes in Cloud City. Vistas of Cloud City, the floating metropolis high above the planet Bespin, have been digitally renewed. Moviegoers will now see Han's ship, the Millennium Falcon, zoom in from space and fly past Cloud City skyscrapers. Added to the scene are shots of the Falcon and intercepting cloud cars banking around a large structure and flying toward a landing platform.
• Originally filmed footage of scene in which Lando ascends through the top hatch of the Millennium Falcon to rescue Luke combined with a new CG hatch model.
• Cloud City Exit: Recomposite to reduce matte lines.
• Following Vader's appearance and confrontation with the Rebels, there's a new live action scene of the Dark Lord walking to his shuttle. A later CG enhancement shows Vader's shuttle as it approaches his Star Destroyer. Finally, as the Falcon escapes from Bespin, a new shot of Vader's shuttle landing in his Star Destroyer's hangar bay has been inserted, with Vader exiting and walking toward stormtroopers.
• Ending Sequence: Recomposite to improve color and perspective match.

RETURN OF THE JEDI

• Opening Sequence: A Sabre recomposite. (I think they refer to the "Sabre Group", it was one of the teams that worked on the digital fixes for the SE. But again, I'm not sure what opening sequence. )
• The Sy Snootles puppet was replaced with a CG figure and a CG Joh Yowza was added.
• New live-action shots have repopulated Jabba's sanctum with a number of new aliens partaking in the raucous party, culminating in the feeding of the dancer Oola to the rancor.
• A CG beak and CG tentacles have been added to the Sarlacc in the pit of Carkoon. Color improvements and matte fixes were made to the barge itself.
• A recomposite was created to improve the B-side of the wipe from the Dune Sea.
• Original elements, mattes fixed, color adjusted in this shot of R2-D2 in an X-wing in space.
• Matte changes in scene with Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine in the Emperor's throne room.
• Color and matte changes made to original elements of space battle scene over Endor.
• Shock wave added in a recomposite... of original elements and CG shock wave element.
• Original elements. A night sky with fireworks above an Endor valley, live action Ewoks added to painting.
• The film's original final scene, in which the Rebels celebrate their defeat of the Emperor and his evil Empire on Endor has been digitally expanded to include galas at three new locations. The new scenes show celebrations on Cloud City, with fireworks as a cloud car zooms by; on Mos Eisley a skyhopper weaves around buildings; and on the Imperial capital, Coruscant, citizens revel under full moons as confetti falls.
• A new digital matte painting of the Ewok ending celebration is combined with new Ewok elements.

If it isn't a way around it, I'll just redo them from scratch, because the result is much more pleasing to the eye. But if there really is a way, it would spare me from a lot of additional work.

I'm currently working on improving my subtitle-script for Star Wars and I've tried out a suggestion Doctor M gave me a while back, which was, add the subtitle-part before the anti-aliasing part in the script. And the results were much better. :)

But, I'm wondering if there's a way of doing that without completely reworking my subtitle work so far? cause if I place the anti-aliasing and resizing after my sub-scripting as it now stands, it alters everything in it, size, positioning etc.

It would be nice if there is a way around it, I'm using g-force stabilization script BTW.

"by thought transference" sounds right to me, but my English isn't that good though. Do not feel sorry for taking up the thread with this, erri_wan, that's what this thread is for, you're doing a great job erri! Thanks, Leo for helping out!

Sorry for being a little off-topic, but it doesn't seem to be so much life in this thread anyway. That weird glitch I described above just seem to be our dreaded friend DVNR, I just noticed these frames that occur after the ones I already posted, I feel sorry for Vader's saber...

It could be worth mentioning that those who plan to make a PAL to NTSC conversion of the PAL JEDI-GOUT-disc due to its slightly better picture quality (g-force script) will end up with hairy_hen's or belbucus audio tracks going out of sync, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548

Don't know if you want to update this old flaw list or not, but you also have a few weird optical color glitches in these '93 masters.

This one is a weird one that is only present on the NTSC-telecine as far as I know, therefore the flaw is also on the PAL GOUT as well. C-3PO's oil bath in SW, for the first few frames of the scene everything looks as it should...

...but in the next frame the lights behind Threepio suddenly switch color...

...this continue on for quite a while, where the lights goes back to green to blue and to finally turn to purple in the scene where he presents himself as C-3PO.

Another glitch where the green colored markings turned pink, I'm not 100% sure of this one though, but 99.9%. ;)

When the Falcon dives to outmaneuvering the Imperial fleet, the TIE lasers turned yellow which totally destroys my enjoyment of one of my all time favorite ILM-shots. :(

In Empire, you also have this weird glitch: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/458996/#TopicPost458996

In Jedi, the Falcon's red laser turned to a dull green color in this sequence.

Similar glitches on the TIE lasers in this shot.

This Stardestroyer's green lasers doesn't look so green anymore.

Return of the yellow lasers.

Doctor M, thanks for your suggested methods on color correction, sounds great, I will definitely try it out sometime.

Thanks! No hurry though, send it when you feel you're completely done with the subs.

I hope this isn't an Italian video exclusive dub, if so, there's a risk the Italian audio will sound a little weird if you convert it to NTSC. But this dub was probably made for the Italian theatrical release, so I guess it won't be any problem.

erri_wan said:

Ok job done. THX is entirely subtitled in Englsh now. In the next few days I'll watch it again to check that everything is ok then I'll send it to... msycamore?

That's great! Could you perhaps send me your Italian video also? It would be nice to begin work on it immediately, do we want a NTSC version of it as well? 

What was done to the 2004 transfers... I cannot even call that a colortiming, they were just released. I've never seen so many technical flaws in a video transfer, I'm still chocked to this day how they succeded if it wasn't on purpose.