msycamore

I don't know if you missed my post on the last page, 005. But the Death Star shot Treadwell was talking about in comp 60. was recomposited for the '97 release, on the frames I posted you can clearly see this in the different positioning of all the elements in it. The easiest way to spot it, is to look at the position of the stars against the battle station. The original elements recomped in '97.

You also have the recomposited sunset I posted a few examples of a few pages back. I've noticed that there actually was always static dirt in the close-up of the twin suns in all home-video transfers of the original film, at the bottom of the frame in the middle, there is some dirt, I don't know, could be what they're talking about, it's not there in the '97 footage, (when you can actually see the restoration job) in the documentary "The Magic and the Mystery". I believe both the wide-shot and close-up was recomped, in the process they took the opportunity to also revise the colortiming.

Nice finds! especially the Jedi- skiff, actually very professionally done, ooh, that hurts to say. ;) 

Those torpedoes had motion blur applied as well. Good job, everyone!

Just to let everyone know, I actually wanted to fix those jaggies, but I simply couldn't get that script to work, and I really doubt that method had done any difference anyway, as the anti-aliasing in g-force script wasn't able to fix it completely, but I may be wrong. If you study the subs you'll notice it, but not if you just read them in regular fashion, I also noticed that those jaggies are visible in Pwnage and g-force's subs as well, it's just that they perhaps become more visible in my script, because I have them in picture and without halo color. Don't know if you can see it on these screen-caps:

Moth3r's "Pwnage"

g-force stabilization

msycamore

msycamore (interlaced) this is the one, d_j uses on his v.3

Btw. thanks for all the feedback in this thread!

Yes! I did finally get the disc today, thank you very much, Puggo! Even the disc label was nice. Haven't had the time to watch it all yet, just the making of which was nice and informative, and the menu, which was really cool, it felt like a love letter to a swedish SW-fan as myself, nice touch with the map and poster. :) It's all professionally made and crude at the same time, just as I like it. Well done!!

I must echo what you already said... it's really amazing that they released the print with that glitch in the first reel? Anyway, it all looks much better than I thought it would, and I'm happy that you took the time preserving it, even though it was in worse shape than Grande. Thanks! Now I will go study the crude original '77 swedish translation. :)

Just so you know, I'm gonna need some time, dark_jedi, if I'm gonna try this out. ;) Daaamn you Greedo!

No I haven't tried it out yet, I'm not really sure how to implement it either, I guess I can try it out, or if satanika can chime in and give some guidance and clarification behind it as I'm a really novice when it comes to it.

Anyway, I'm willing to improve it if you think it's worth it, and if everyone else think so. I'll see what I can do.

Those jaggies you see on some of the letters was always there, they were even more noticable in the old script, wasn't the subs in g-force's original script located in the black bars? If so, they don't have that problem.

Both, Moth3r and satanika above have been very helpful with suggestions, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to fix that issue in the limited time frame or if their suggestions even solve those jaggies entirely, I've not had the time to look into it. I actually tested to put the subs before the anti-aliasing part, but they were still not completely gone with that method so I don't know if it is a limitation in the Avisynth subtitle filter or if it is a limitation of my knowledge, as it is now it doesn't have any halo color, but if I put that back, it doesn't resemble the theatrical subs anymore so...

Those screen-caps made me happy and very nostalgic, the quality doesn't look bad at all, I expected it to look worse. :) 

Tugg! ;)

No need to apologise guys, real life always comes first. I just were a little curious about the current situation, that's all... My above post actually sounded like I was a little impatient. ;) Anyway, thanks for the quick updates. :)

Your bad luck seems to continue, SilverWook. :( I hope you get things back on track soon, computer problems are really tiresome. Really nice to hear you're planning a new capture on the 704! :)

Thanks, erri_wan. Looking forward to see the extended SEN scene!

Hold on, d_j, maybe I can reduce those jaggies with a different halo color to the main subs... I'll report back soon.

Edit: Aah, forget it, now I remember why I had the halo color set to transparent, if not, the subs get a thick black outline. I'm done tweaking, d_j.

I see what you mean, g-force. Also on the 'w's, looks worse unblurred I'm afraid. If I had redone them from scratch, and put them before the anti-aliasing part in your script, they had come out looking much better, but unfortunately I don't have the energy to redo them.

Anyway, I hope I don't have pissed you off with this, g-force. I love what you've done to the GOUT video, I just wanted to make alternative subs for my own viewing pleasure at first and your script was too good to be ignored when making them.

Darth Editous said:

List of changes in Star Wars re-releases

I've been looking at the page above, and, particularly in the Special Edition sections, there seem to be some errors, so I thought I'd post them here to see if anyone can put either me, or the article, right:

New aliens are seen in the Cantina, and the Cantina music is played at a higher pitch and tempo.

Has someone just compared a PAL edition and an NTSC edition?

 

Exactly my thoughts as well, I've only listened to the '04 re-mix once, so I'm not sure about this one, but everything is possible in that horrible re-mix of course.

Darth Editous said:

When Lando contacts Lobot, it is done silently rather than Lando sending a codeword.

What codeword?

And, possibly missing from the ROTJ section, doesn't the skiff that Han gets thrown from now rotate as well as tip, in the SE?

No idea what they're talking about. If they mean the audio signal from his "watch", it was still there in '04 IIRC.

Don't know about the skiff, I have to check.

Darth Editous said:

In the 2004 DVD section:

More debris has been digitally added to the scene at the destroyed Jawa sandcrawler.

I looked for this months ago and could see no difference - am I missing something?

 There's no alteration to that scene at all. Not what I can see.

Darth Editous said:

The dialogue spoken by Jabba the Hutt in the scene where he is discussing the price for Chewbacca that had the subtitles added in the 1997 Special Edition has the subtitles removed, making C-3PO's verbal translations in the scene relevant again.

Were these ever really added to the SE? It's not mentioned in the SE section.

DE

Interesting, in the '97 SE home video releases, that scene is subtitled in the same way as the original film, so I guess this is simply wrong, if it wasn't different on the actual '97 theatrical prints, which I really doubt.

This thread have been frighteningly silent lately, any news, SilverWook and erri_wan? I'm waiting to begin work on your files.

Just so you know, SilverWook, if you're able to send me the raw capture, I'm willing to help you out with this.

I actually feel a little bad for my comments in this thread, I'm actually happy that you finally working on a way of sharing the work that went in to this project, Zion. 

Your welcome, the overall tweaks to the video in your sample looks good BTW.

ChainsawAsh said:

I like the "softer" subtitles better.  It makes it feel like they were printed onto the film that was scanned in, as opposed to something that was digitally added later.

That is exactly why I think the tweak was needed, thanks for the feedback guys, and thank you d_j for posting a sample of them so all could see the new one. I don't know, maybe you could post an before and after, so people can see the difference.

The filters' purpose is to reduce flicker on interlaced displays, and it makes them look a little softer.There's no contest in my mind, the earlier ones look ugly in the edges sometimes, especially the simulated dropshadow, it's still not entirely perfect, but that's just my perfectionism that's speaking, and like someone else said on these boards, it's just subtitles For F**k Sake! ;) I cannot work on these forever.

d_j, if you still prefer the sharper subs, and want to use them, maybe for your own encode if not this, just remove the line, interlaced=true from the script instead of using the old script as the new script is also a closer match in some spots.

dark_jedi said:

rip your DD 2.0 file from the GOUT and convert to wav and load it in Vegas, then select Belebcus wav and zoom in on the time line, it is not in complete 100% sync, I thought this to but I have checked every different file I have in it does to drift a wee bit, if I feel like it tomorrow for all you doubters LOL I will post Vegas screen grabs on a zoomed in part and you will see they do not line up, if I knew it did not have to be that close I could have been done with these damn audio files a long time ago, but these will be pretty easy to fix, they are not no where near as bad as the LD rips.

Weird...?? I must check my audio files then. Edit: I will not. ;)

dark_jedi said:

I am looking forward to your new and improved subs, so do you think these will be better than the ones you have now? the ones now look friggin SWEET!

I've posted the updated script in my thread, it's not a huge difference to the old, just minor tweaks to a few lines. Moth3r gave me a script-suggestion that makes them look softer and therefore they look much better IMO. try it out.

I've updated the sub-script for Star Wars on the first page: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Greedo-Jabba-subtitles-theatrical-positioning-and-font/post/417103/#TopicPost417103

Will update the script for Jedi later...

Sounds very strange that your audiofiles are not in sync, d_j. Belbucus synced those tracks specifically to the NTSC GOUT-discs, my files sync up perfectly.

Just so you know, I'll update my Greedo sub-script very soon, which means, additional blur and a couple of fine adjustments to make them look closer to the theatrical ones, then I'm finally done with these.

Moth3r said:

To answer for g-force - no, that's not possible. The reason is that the anti-aliasing function also doubles the height of the video. The following stage in the script crops/resizes to an anamorphic image with borders; I assume it's the size of the video frame at this stage that you have used to determine the size and position of your subtitles (is it the script in this post?)

Yes, that is the script I was referring to. I suspected that it would not be possible, but now I really know. Thanks.

Moth3r said:

One easy option you could try would be to add interlaced=true to every subtitle line. This parameter adds an additional blur to the subtitle text (it's purpose is to reduce flicker on interlaced displays).

Beyond that, you would have to look at a workflow that involves using your subtitles on a blank clip, adding a resize line after the subtitles so that they then match the non-anamorphic GOUT video, and finally adding this clip as an overlay to the GOUT video before the anti-aliasing. 

That looks actually quite similar to the effect the additional anti-aliasing had on the text. I think I'll go with this method, that second option sounds like too much work. Thank you so much for the help, Moth3r! I couldn't have done these subs without you. :)

Those redone saber clash mattes in the Falcon I earlier posted, was done for the '97 SE,  where as the flashes in the duel and Empire was remade for the 2004 DVD... those effects were originally quite different, also I guess there was a quite different approach to the two projects as a whole, the 1997 SE restoration and enhancement feels more like a professionally made work than the 2004 DVD production, even how bad some of those alterations in '97 were.

Treadwell said:

There was some discussion of missing or extra frames here and there, namely fading out/in to Threepio in the oilbath, or the TIEs approaching the Death Star in comp 60. These are reel change points--as such, it is common for one transfer to have a few frames more or less than another, as they have to be either put together later in the video realm, or the reels edited together in real time during the telecine. While these would count as differences, they are the kind of thing that will be found between every transfer ever made (not just original/SE), and thus do not fall within doubleofive's listing criteria.

 

I agree with you, the fade out/in to Threepio in the oilbath is a reel change point, but I don't know if that one was missing any frames between transfers, they just remade the fade, right? And I don't think the other one, comp. 60, is a reel change point though, IIRC the next reel change is after Tarkin says "We will then crush the rebellion with one swift stroke", I could be wrong though.

Edit: I checked, the scene is actually a 1997-recomp:

last frame of GOUT

last frame of 2004 DVD

However, there is some dirt in there that is not present on the DVD. Fake or not, as you already said Harmy, in this form it is useless anyway. :(

To me that "Look sir, droids" shot just looks like it could be color corrected 2004 DVD footage, nice nevertheless. Thanks for sharing, Zion. Hope you locate the other one.

G-force, can you please tell me if there's a way of placing the anti-aliasing part in your script after the Greedo-subtitling without completely redo the subs from scratch? I'd just like to get my own Greedo-subtitles a little softer with the help of additional anti-aliasing when using your script. 

If I place the anti-aliasing and resizing after my sub-scripting as it now stands, it alters everything in it, size, positioning etc. Is there a way around it, or do I have to simply redo them?

Treadwell said:

2. Someone pointed out color inconsistencies inside the Sandcrawler. There might very well be, but using the lights on Artoo as reference is problematic, as they were fiber optics that led to a color wheel--so the colors would change as the wheel turned.

That was just a way of me to demonstrate how F***ED up the '04 transfer is. In this case my example isn't problematic as Artoo's light was always green in that shot as well as every other shot of it. My point was to show how many errors there really are in these transfers down to the smallest details, this is just not a matter of a new colortiming done to the films, these are fatal technical errors in the transfers that not making any sense, some may not notice them but there is hundreds of these instances throughout these DVD's, it's just that when it happens when a lighsaber is on screen, everyone notice it, that's why I don't think those kind of differences should be listed.

To me the 2004 DVD's just looks like a little child sat and played with all the settings, in one shot the saturation is bumped up to the max in the next it is totally desaturated, in one scene the black levels are crushed, a few moments later it has clipped white levels, this all happens within scenes that were shot at the same time with the same lightning conditions and were supposed to look identical, they're just apart because of editing, (C-3PO in the garage, for example).

The same thing happens in the lightsaber battle, when Vader's correct green lights in his belt goes from green to blue and back again from shot to shot, but most people will just recognise that Vader has a pink saber in one shot and Ben a purple in another, the problem with the colors are more extensive than that and often related.

GOUT

2004 DVD

GOUT

2004 DVD

 GOUT

2004 DVD

How do you even accomplish something like this?! Try to fix these flaws with color correction... you simply can't, these are fundamental technical glitches that are everywhere in these transfers, not artistic changes...I hope.

Treadwell said: 

7. On DVNR and hologram scan lines: it's been pointed out, but I must support the notion that the GOUT/'93 laserdisc sources cannot be trusted when evaluating such fine detail. The DVNR was applied during telecine, so the GOUT isn't going to be any better than other '93 fan copies in that regard. There was some mention of GOUT actually being softer...would comparisons to fanmade '93 LD transfers help in this case? Is the EditDroid version still about the best, or have better ones come along?

The GOUT can be trusted where the scanlines are noticable, all holograms had scanlines in them in the original trilogy, it was just that they didn't include them for some recomposites that were made in '97.

The scanlines in the Emperor hologram for example, are in the '93 telecine, but are barely noticable on the GOUT due to vertical blur or something, you can see them on several fanmade '93 LD transfers, I posted a few examples earlier in the thread.

Thanks for joining the thread, Treadwell. Nice observations!