DominicCobb said:
msycamore said:
These listings are all a little silly IMO, it's not even the same film that is going to be screened.
I wonder is Star Wars/ANH still on the 2nd place after Gone With The Wind adjusted for inflation, if you're taking away the SE income?
Yes, it would be.
That is impressive. :)
These listings are all a little silly IMO, it's not even the same film that is going to be screened.
I wonder is Star Wars/ANH still on the 2nd place after Gone With The Wind adjusted for inflation, if you're taking away the SE income?
none said:
With a Google login, anyone can comment on any of the SE Guide pics. But only the pic poster (doubleofive in this case) can port that info into the main description.
Oh, I see. Didn't know that.
doubleofive said:
Added your finding, msyc.
Speaking of which, my Star Wars one has been reshared on G+ like 80 times in the past week. None of the others have though.
Great to know it's gettin attention. :)
doubleofive said:
And a few commenters seem to think I'm trying to point out that the changes are all for the better! ;-)
That's a little weird, could perhaps be the remains of the official descriptions that makes it seem that way, to me they were clearly done in that way. (haven't checked if you got rid of those or not)
One thing that I've tried to point out earlier in this thread is that the wide-shot of the binary sunset wasn't only re-timed in '97, and getting clouds in '04, it was also digitally re-composited in '97, an easy way to spot this is on the different shape of the real on-location sun.
In the original film the red sun was composited into the shot and can actually be seen moving (setting) as Luke walking up to the edge. In the SE where both suns are "digital", you can see that both of them are moving (setting). This is actually hard to see if you're watching the film as you're supposed to, but if you are jumping between the first and last frame it's very visible. Just thought I would point that out as I am still not seeing any description for it.
TServo2049 said:
As to the Technidisc/GOUT source - it seems from the Technidisc transfer that it was already yellowing in '92. Who knows what it looks like 20 years later? Even if it hasn't faded or yellowed any further, there's still the potential issue of vinegar syndrome...
The source was actually turning red/pink, but I agree, it was an ok source for LD at the time nothing else.
Damn, the quality of those frames!!
Just so people get what damage me and TServo were talking about:
it appears throughout at least one reel, and looks like some kind of damage caused by liquid. The above images are taken from the Special Collection (X9-transfer).
Amazing colors on that print -1.
EDIT: Holy shit! that's how film should look, to me it seems to be in such good condition, that almost nothing needs to be done.
Baronlando said:
Nice!
semi-related: One thing that is interesting to me about the technidisc laser is that for some reason it's the most flattering to the matte painting of the soldiers during the end ceremony. (thanks to mysycamore I've become a big fan of that disc. It's not as blah as the gout, and unless it was left outside on the porch after 1993, I think that source could make a great basis for a Blade Runner-disc 3-type restoration. All the little dings and specks are really not any worse than the stuff dealt with years ago for ERASERHEAD, which I believe was self-financed by Lynch)
Glad you like it. Don't know how it looks on a modern display but I think it looks quite good on an old CRT TV, at least the LD does, I guess it can also be refreshing when you've become used to the DVNR'ed THX transfer. That Absurda release of Eraserhead is one of my prized possessions along with his shortfilms of course. That's how a real artist treat his fans. I think I need to buy his coffe. :)
Ouch, that fading is quite severe, but looking at what can be done, going by that first pass color correction, I'm sure you will be able to make this look pretty nice. Anyway, thanks for posting.
TServo2049 said:
The orange marks in the binary sunset scene on the Technidisc don't show up on any other version, including the various 35mm and 16mm telecines and preservations. They seem to be unique to that print.
Yes, you're right. Forgot to mention that, those seem to be unique to the IP used for the NTSC THX LD's (GOUT) and the Technidisc pressing of the SWE LD.
TServo2049 said:
The Tantive shake is so grainy because it was an optical effect. Various frames were optically smeared and repositioned to make it look like the camera was shaking more than it was in the production footage. (I have a theory that the less severe shake we see in the SE is the original on-set shake effect - they had to go back to the production footage, likely not because of any burn marks, but rather because the optically-enhanced version was either too grainy, or had CRI fading problems like some of the other opticals.)
Ah, so the shake is an optical effect after all, interesting.
It all sounds like a good theory.
TServo2049 said:
I don't think the orange marks were burned in during the optical process, because the 80s video releases don't have them. Either these marks were not on the scene in the original negative, or if they were, then Lucas/ILM/whoever must have gone back and found the original master footage of the shake optical and cut that in to replace the "burned" dupe version.
The interpositive used for the 80s video transfers is really a mystery to me - it doesn't have the '77 color timing, so it could must come from the O-neg or some element earlier than the timed answer print, yet it has its own weird damage (like the strange blobs when Luke turns on his saber after putting on the helmet). If that damage was actually on the original negative by '82, then it's no wonder that they had to go back and recomposite these scenes in '97...
That weird damage you describe appear from time to time throughout that entire reel. The IP used for Empire seems to perfectly match the release prints in terms of splices - glue marks, and seems to be the same source for all NTSC releases of the original film, but if you look at the early source '82 - 92 used for Star Wars, you often have big glue marks at every cut, something I cannot rember seeing on any theatrical references we have. That's another unique thing about it.
Yes, thanks for posting those Cloud City interior shots. :) Interesting, seems a little bit washed out and pink, the SWE is perhaps a little too orange though. Is the color correction on those final and is it possible to post not color corrected ones of those frames? I'm curious to see just how pink faded it is. Thanks.
BTW if some are interested in specific smearfree scenes from the Technidisc, I can always upload them in lossless avi for you. But if you think the Special Collection is dirty you haven't seen this one. ;)
Harmy said:
Well, yeah, it had to fit with the SE footage within the same shot. Like I said, I'm gonna add the grain back for the final version (though probably not as much).
Oh, I see. I guess it also looks much better in motion.
This shot should be grainy, clean it up, and you just make the effect stand out as even more fake, I can understand why Harmy needs to do it as it needs to fit the rest of his footage. Personally I think it's a little too clean, fine detail is gone along with a slightly flat and blurry quality, especially were the sky meets the buildings.
What a beauty -1! :)
I have still to this day not seen Attack of the Clones but I have heard the score and I like "Across the Stars", a very epic and beautiful theme that almost rivals "Han Solo and the Princess" from Empire.
Personally, I don't think Williams never again came to the heights of the period '77 - '81, there's something raw and primal about the sound from Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra from that era that I thought was gone even at the time when Jedi was released, it could be a result of the studio and the mixing at that time but just take a listen to the brass in Star Wars or Raiders and you'll know what I'm talking about. Everything sounded so slick and perfect later on.
none said:
Harmy wrote: They're not getting rid of the frames, they're fixing them.
Right, three of the four images You_Too posted suffer a lower edge which is blown out as most likely the next frame has a very bright explosion. The light bleeds between frames causing the neighboring frame to change color along the bottom or top edge.
Not sure what's caused the error in the R5/Luke/3po shot. It's close in size and shape to a Reel Cue Marker, but it's not punched out, just a modified ring. weird.
I wouldn't call these errors, it's glue and tape visible from the splices, and I'm pretty sure the blue in the bottom corner of the shot of R2 and the Jawas are part of the animation/special effects work, there are similar cases of shortcomings and side effects of the animation work seen where it shouldn't be in other parts of the films.
Moth3r said:
Sort of a follow-up to this thread; what is the best source for the ~140 frames of the infamous Mos Eisley speeder pass-by shot?
If we're talking laserdisc, I would say it's either the SC
or SWE (Technidisc)
none said:
Those in the Twin Suns sequence are quite random. Some rain down, others almost horizontal, some seem to have directional smearing others more rip like.
Maybe they let the cat into the lab that day. ;)
Most professionally done subs don't text every word spoken anyway so I fully understand that some lines aren't included CatBus.
Haven't checked Empire yet, I definitely not want to be some road block for You_Too & d_j's project, so don't wait for me. I'm definitely not an expert on SW dialogue or something :) just found it easy to compare your work with my own and share what I knew, but I will definitely check it out and let you know if there is some issues with it I can spot.
I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, similar damage appear elsewhere in the film but not as fatal as those in the corridor, here's a few of them as they're seen on the SWE LD (Technidisc):
The 3rd frame -1 posted
These above Marks' head can also be seen on the Senator screening photo
2nd close-up
bkev said:
Interesting to see that there are more burn marks than our little friend from the home video releases. Wonder if those were common ones too or exclusive to this print.
Those are the same known marks you're seeing on the home video releases.
Chewtobacca said:
CatBus said: I'm agreeing with all of your corrections (even "deflector screens") except the exclamation mark. Although the line delivery is definitely unexcited, I think the exclamation still fits in context.
That was the only correction that I didn't agree with either. I would always use an exclamation mark there because the remark is constructed as an outcry.
Yeah, I guess you guys are right, an exclamation mark could be fitting there. Btw if you want even more completeness, Threepio utter the words "Oh, no" after the laser blast hit near him, before he says, "I'm going to regret this." when he enter the escape pod.
Chewtobacca said:
I didn't know that some of the lines were clearer in the mono mix than the stereo, because I always listen to the latter, so I'll have to listen to that line again.
Yes, I noticed that the Mono mix was of good use when I did my subs due to the unprocessed dialogue in the Death Star battle, why they got rid of the synthesized voices and static distortions in the Mono mix I cannot understand, it was one of the things that made the Stereo mix sound so impressive and real.
Chewtobacca said:
I listened to the mono mix and, while it could be either, it definitely sounds more like their. Interesting!
It probably is, the script also support this but I can honestly not hear the difference, especially not in the Stereo mix. Maybe you can hear it with headphones. I actually think the lines in the published script are based on the mono mix IIRC.
CatBus said:
By the way, msycamore, if you're planning to take a look through Empire and Jedi, maybe I'll delay my re-upload until you've had a chance to have your say on them. I really do appreciate the feedback.
Sure, I'll take a look.
CatBus said:
Wow, thanks for the feedback, msycamore!
No problem, you have done a fantastic job on these, must have taken forever.
EDIT: Yeah, I can see that, to be honest I'm not sure how good my subs read in that part, it was just an example.