msycamore

When discussing audio mixes on Star Wars in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Ultimate-Trilogy-Set/post/568045/#TopicPost568045

the 4.1 tracks on the Alien blu-ray set was brought up, decided to start this thread so that we don’t derail that thread any further.

Anyway, the questions is; what exactly is the source they used for this track? According to Jonno who owns the blu-ray set, no information is stated about its origin. Does it even say original or theatrical on the package?

As you can see in the thread where we started to discuss this, my memory of what differences could be heard between the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix and the 70mm six-track, (that was available on the Widescreen Edition Laserdisc released back in '95) doesn’t seem to be accurate, if this blu-ray audio is indeed supposed to be the original 70mm Dolby Six-Track Stereo mix.

The only release of Alien I own is the 20th anniversary DVD released back in '99, for that release they apparently used the 35mm Dolby Stereo, I recall there was some controversy around this as many were disappointed by the weak audio of that release in comparison to the powerful 70mm mix on the laserdisc.

The 70mm mix contains alternate dialogue and music cues and sound FX in comparison to the regular 35mm mix. But what I pointed out to Jonno going by my memory doesn’t seem to be right, so is there anyone that can provide info about what this 4.1 audio track on the Alien blu-ray is, perhaps someone on this board owns the LD: [](http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979)[](http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979 "www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979")[http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979](http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979 "www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06718/8760-85/Alien-(1979")) and can help clarify this? Either the 4.1 track isn’t the 70mm audio or I’m starting to go senile.

LexX said:

But still, the video has been touched for some reason, even though Ridley Scott is usually a good preservationist.

What do you mean by touched? Are you talking about the "Director's Cut" or the new timing on the blu-ray that caused some controversy? Either way, when it comes to Ridley's films, there's always a choice and they are treated like films and not like some computer software.

EDIT: Started a thread about the Alien audio: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Dolby-Digital-41-Surround-Alien-Anthology/post/568250/#TopicPost568250 so that we don't derail this thread any further.

Jonno said:

Hmmm... I've just checked the three sound mixes on the Blu (DTS, Dolby 4.1 and Dolby 2.0) and not only is the "Kane's son" line present on all of them, the take used for Dallas' "Morning Mother" sounds exactly the same! I even popped in the 20th anniversary DVD for comparison - the two tracks on that release sound no different in those scenes.

Is the '95 laserdisc possibly the only proper preservation of the 70mm mix? Thanks for the reminder of that, by the way. I've never seen/heard that disc but I was aware of its existence. I wonder if that track has ever been extracted (not sure of the ins and outs of AC-3 on laser).

What the...? Do I remember things wrong here, I was pretty damn sure of those two differences, now I really have to investigate this. A friend of mine own that old Laser, so I have listened to this track, but it has been a while since I last heard it so it may be my memory playing tricks with me.

That '95 THX release was the only video release as far as I know that had the 70mm mix.

Jonno said:

And I'm aware that these posts have been wildly off-topic, so perhaps we should discuss this elsewhere! It's just that I saw a 70mm screening about 15 years ago, and its raw and vital quality made quite an impression on me - none of the Blu audio tracks have quite the same effect.

Damn, I'm jealous. I have wanted to get that LD for just that track but when I found out that they were going to include it on the blu-ray... I'll have to ask the buddy of mine about this. Maybe start a separate thread for this or take it through PM? Maybe someone else on this forum own this laser to check?

Compared to certain other films, Alien is/have been treated with respect: http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2752/dsc03252v.jpg

Described on the jacket:

"The six-track magnetic sound masters used in the original 70mm theatrical prints were utilized to create the sound tracks for this widescreen laser disc release of Alien. Supervised by Lucasfilm's THX Laser Disc program, and encoded with Dolby Surround AC-3 Digital Sound, Ridley Scott's legendary science fiction masterpiece is now presented as close to the original theatrical experience as possible."

They should definitely be the true 70mm Dolby mixes, haven't read any articles about the creation behind this set and I don't own this set myself yet so I cannot confirm it but isn't it stated on the packaging? That's odd... I would be very surprised if they aren't, IIRC I saw it confirmed somewhere around the time of its release.

The tracks are obviously only available for the theatrical cut of each film, if you do own it, you could easily confirm it as the 70mm mix of Alien does contain several differences compared to the 35mm mix in dialogue, editing and sound effects. For example, Dallas line "Good morning, Mother." is an alternate take than the one heard in the 35mm mix, and when the crew discusses Brett's death, Ash's line "Kane's son" is not heard in the 70mm. I'm not that familiar with the sound mixes of Aliens to know if there's differences in content between those as well.

The screencap from the doc match the DVD menu pretty well, so yeah this must be the same master before someone decided that the film should look like a cheap hooker.

RIP McQuarrie, a truly fantastic conceptual designer and illustrator. :(

TServo2049 said:

Still, as I said before, according to Mike Verta the '97 colors were inaccurate even in the theater. They were probably closer, but people like Mike and Treadwell noticed color issues from the get-go.

The SE was given its own timing that apparently wasn't entirely faithful to the original in many scenes like you said but my reason for posting those '97 pics had nothing to do with the timing of the '77 original.

The binary sunset and the canyon scenes were certainly a little mystery when I started this thread, but it has since become known how these scenes looked.

The point is, you have the '97 sunset right there in the chapter menu looking better than it ever did on their main '97 releases, and I find that hilarious. In fact, the whole film looks pretty damn good in the chapter menu compared to the main feature.

TServo2049 said:

The THX DVD documentary clips look about the same as the ones in Empire of Dreams. Both of them used a different source than the official video masters - for example, Jabba's subtitles were burned in like they were in theaters. 

Yeah, of course they did but that's the irony isn't it, scenes looking better in trailers, promos, documentaries and even in chapter menus, but the video transfers of the films themselves are always presented with shoddy quality.

Which reminds me, sometimes you wonder how many telecines have really been made, here's how the '97 SE - Binary Sunset appears in the 2004 THX DVD documentary:

Too dark and dull, but still better than the "timing" people were treated with when they bought their '97 videos:

I don't know which one is worst, the 2004 incarnation is a different kind of ugliness.

They sure know how to make a quality product. What's even funnier is that the Binary Sunset looks better in that chapter menu than it ever did on their '97 SE video releases.

Is the '97 Jabba seen in the chapters?

Gil Taylor shot Omen the year before but I think Donner's Superman is a pretty good example of the kind of cinematography Star Wars had, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind is another. But I would rank both of those as more sophisticated than Star Wars.

Negative1, what's exactly the reason behind the low detail in your posted 35mm frames? They look extremely noise reduced.

SilverWook said:

Lucasfilm's continued negative attitude towards screenings of the original version, even in an purely academic/historical context, is enough to make my head implode.

Agree, truly disgusting behaviour.

Great and uplifting article, and a fine job of everyone involved. Nice to know that the works of Kaminski have helped things moving. :)

Asaki said:

I think I still prefer the Technidisc.

Well, I have finally come to that conclusion after playing around with the weird color levels, I thought there was a cure. Some scenes look very good though.

That is one of those lines that is very hard for me to hear in any other way, as I've heard it like that all my life, right or wrong. :)

Thanks TServo, those photos transports you right back to the '70's. Talk about quality!! I'm gettin very jealous. :)

Well, Mike knows his stuff, the comparison pics between modern and old projection bulbs is nice, and very interesting. Again, see how dark the blue is on Artoo.

Wow, what activity. :)

I like that you mention the warm and golden quality of Star Wars as that is exactly how I remember it, especially the scenes on Tatooine, slightly old fashion. I also think that sometimes people may mistake the warm 70's look for very saturated colors, this frame is a perfect example of that nice 70's look. Those pics of the Derann print also display it, very nice.

Haven't seen this one before, was it posted on his site? Another thing that stands out to me about this frame is the darker blue on R2-D2, see how far removed the look of R2 seen in modern transfers is compared to this, even compared to some earlier transfers to some extent.

The name of Luke's gunner Dak have been spelled Dack sometimes, but he is known as Dak just like you wrote it in the films credits, so that's what I went with as well. Just thought I would mention that if people think it's a typo.

259

00:30:27,925 --> 00:30:30,125

Well, set harpoon.

I’ll cover for you.

could it be?

We’ll set harpoon. I’ll cover for you.

271

00:32:00,418 --> 00:32:03,618

– And get to your transports!

– Oh! Wait for me!

Between the two lines above, this is heard:

-K-one-zero...all troops disengage.

Again, this is barely audible, just wanted to point it out.

280

00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:26,500

Hurry up, Goldenrod. You’re gonna be

a permanent resident.

Could it be:

Or you’re gonna be a permanent resident!

impossible to tell.

370

00:45:32,329 --> 00:45:34,429

After all, I’m only

trying to do my job.

you can add a few words here if you like:

After all, I’m only trying

to do my job in the most--

Leia can be heard yelling "Han!" before Threepio's line here, nothing major. ;)

528

00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:13,700

Aagghh! Go away, go away,

beastly thing! Shoo! Shoo!

534

01:00:01,411 --> 01:00:03,911

Sit down, sweetheart!

We’re taking off!

I always heard it:

Silence, sweetheart!

Am I wrong?

706

01:20:01,809 --> 01:20:03,900

Well, he seems very friendly.

Lando's line can be added here if you don't care about readabilty.

"I never thought I’d catch up with you again."

Regarding this line you asked me about:

781

01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:22,863

He is my friend.

Besides we’ll soon be gone.

It's a tough one, I went with, "But he is my friend." but I agree that it sounds like Harrison doesn't say it. 

That was all I could find, very good job CatBus!

TServo2049 said:

It's not the brightness of the eBay photo I think is more accurate, it's the color. No version I've ever seen has as much green as the Jedi1.net image. All of the Jedi1 scans of the hospital scenes seem to have a yellow-green cast to the whole image, including skin tones.

Yeah,  in terms of color I very much agree, those are looking more natural compared to the scans.

The JSC have its own tint to it of course, I just brought it up regarding the overall brightness of that bacta scene. Thanks for posting these.

Very nice. Great find and thanks for posting! :) The bacta tank scene is a curious one, I was also surprised by the amount of green in it when I first saw that scan, but to me the Jedi1.net scan looks much more accurate, but that's only my opinion of course, this is one of those scenes like the corridor scenes with Leia and Han that was very much brightened for the SE so it should be dark but I seriously think that ebay frame isn't showing us the true brightness of that shot, it seems too dark, they otherwise seems to match the scans pretty close IMO.

Even the THX transfer (GOUT) is too bright in that shot, the SC/SWE LD's come pretty close, but the greens are more yellow there IIRC.

Oh, you posted some more... these are nice. :)

And I also think you were enjoying the film, instead of taking notice, "oh those subs are actually white" it's only freaks like myself that do those things. :)

wwdarth said:

I have to say.  I'm 42 and saw Star Wars a dozen times from 1977-1982 in the theater. There were NEVER anything but white subtitles.  Save your time debating this one, no idea what that guy in Baltimore is talking about.

Well, it was proved wrong almost as fast as it was brought up, I couldn't believe it myself, but was doubtful as it only had gone a few weeks since he saw it, no offense timdiggerm but this example really tells you something about the ridiculous stories you sometimes hear about scenes included in this film back in the day.

Ok, I began checking your Empire subs. 

 Where Luke says:

"Steady."

"Hey, steady girl."

"Hey, what’s the matter?"

You went with:

"Steady, girl. What’s the matter?"

and I actually think that's enough.

"Well, the bounty hunter we ran into

in Ord Mantell changed my mind."

I'm not sure about this one, but it could be:

"Well, the bounty hunter we ran into

on Ord Mantell changed my mind."

"– I don’t know what you’re talking about."

"– You probably don’t."

I have always heard it like Han says:

"You probably do."

The character of Han and the context of the scene makes both work, Leia's following line is as we all know:

"And what precisely am I supposed to know?"

 I think the script have it your way.

Between these two lines:

77

00:08:13,459 --> 00:08:15,894

Your tauntaun will freeze

before you reach the first marker.

78

00:08:15,895 --> 00:08:18,095

Then I’ll see you in hell!

You can include this gibberish if you like:

<i>I’ll cover sector twelve.</i>

<i>Have com-control set screen alpha.</i>

It's barely audible, just thought I would mention it.

"You look strong enough

to pull the ears off a gundark."

could be:

"In fact, you look strong enough

to pull the ears off a Gundark."

I'm not sure, but I think it was scripted that way.

"Picked up something outside

the base’s Zone 12 moving east."

could be:

"We've picked up something outside

the base in zone twelve moving east."

not sure.

156

00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:41,199

– If we followed up every lead—

– But sir, the Hoth system...

157

00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,269

– ...is supposed to be devoid of humans.

– You’ve found something?

The line is:

"But, sir, the Hoth system

 is supposed to be devoid of human forms."

168

00:21:29,488 --> 00:21:32,416

Oh! Turn it off!

Turn it off!

you can add just an Off! at the end there if you like. ;)

Will post the rest of my findings tomorrow Catbus, hope that's ok, it's gettin late here... I checked SW again and it seems perfectly fine to me. Also, let me know if I'm too pedantic when checking your subs and should really only look for typos.

Just a question, what looks more natural for you guys who have English as their first language, Star Destroyers or Stardestroyers, Sand People or Sandpeople? This was a minor thing I asked myself when doing my english subs, to see the words together was more common back in the day, you rarely see them typed like that anymore.

Harmy said:

just saying that there's nothing amazing about these particular pictures.

There definitely is, the colors and the condition this print seems to be in is very much amazing, but you beat me to it, there is something off about these.

Teaser indeed, the colors on these frames you're posting are simply PERFECT! amazing what good condition it seems to be in. But what others have pointed out, there's something off about these pics, the cinematography of Star Wars was soft yes, but these almost looks like they've gone through some denoising, I hope the reason behind this are down to bad resizing and compression.

Like Harmy said, the marks at the top will the cropping take care of, I think the Special Collection LD is the only home video transfer were you can make out the rounded corners in some parts, that is an example of a transfer that display too much sometimes, but that one was cropped with TV overscan in mind so...