poita said:
So which SWE do I have?
capture is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv45ix82fo7cmaf/x9-es10-swe.mp4
That is the more common SWE release. Not the Technidisc pressing.
TV's Frink said:
imperialscum said:
I too prefer the 1997 to theatrical.
I hate this thread.
:)
Did not the '97SE get a theatrical release? ;)
Are you talking about the different cropping between releases or is there something else I don't see? The mad revisionist cut was sourced from the negative whereas the letterbox LD's was most likely from an IP or IN. The UK LD comes from the same source as the US/Jap but is just a different telecine - different cropping and a less nr of frames missing between reel-changes.
Yeah, that looks a little better than before but the tradeoff isn't worth it IMO but others may disagree. If it's something you all want me to apply then I will of course do it. But I would rather not.
Here's a video sample of Spaced Ranger's superb work on the lost scene, utilizing the last correction of his script:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wdz2xg
Your fix for the color fringing made wonders, definitely a keeper, love it!
SilverWook said:
What gets weird is the workprint version of the cantina scene has different Greedo dialog, (as spoken on set) yet the Marvel comic is closer to the final film version. Could they have gone back to an earlier script draft when it came down to creating Greedo's english subtitles in post production?
Been a while since I last saw the workprint footage so I may be wrong but they basically added information we otherwise would've gotten in the Jabba scene in post. The marvel comic is close to the film but you can easily see the final touches made from a direct comparison;
Marvel comic:
Greedo: "Going somewhere, Solo?"
Han: "Matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba I have his money."
Greedo: "That's what you said yesterday. Now it's too late."
Han: "But I've really got the money this time!"
Greedo: "Then hand it over."
Han: "I haven't got it on me. You tell Jabba..."
Greedo: "Jabba would rather have your ship, I think."
Han: "Over my dead body!"
Greedo: "That’s the idea, Solo. Now will you come outside with me or must I finish it in..."
Film:
Greedo: "Going somewhere, Solo?"
Han: "Yes, Greedo. As a matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba that I've got his money."
Greedo: "It’s too late. You should have paid him when you had the chance. Jabba’s put a price on your head so large every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you... I’m lucky I found you first."
Han: "Yeah, but this time I got the money."
Greedo: "If you give it to me, I might forget I found you."
Han: "I don't have it with me. Tell Jabba..."
Greedo: "Jabba’s through with you. He has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."
Han: "Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?" (lifted directly from discarded Jabba scene)
Greedo: "You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship."
Han: "Over my dead body."
Greedo: "That’s the idea. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time."
Han: "Yes, I'll bet you have."
When Jabba in the SE threaten Han with; "I'll put a price on your head so big you won't be able to go near a civilized system." it doesn't fit that well with the earlier statement from Greedo.
SilverWook said:
The whole reason for the original human Jabba being cut has been murky since 1983, when that pesky storyboard of uncertain vintage appeared in the Making of a Saga documentary.
Here's how Gary Kurtz describe the reason for the Jabba scene being jettisoned back in 2002:
"...we had technical difficulties with that scene. We shot it over three times for camera problems, focus problems, and film stock problem, and then abandoned it because we ran out of time. We just said, "Well, the bulk of the information that comes across in that scene, about Jabba threatening Han Solo and wanting his money and all of that, we could get across in the scene in the Cantina, with Greedo." It's basically the same kind of information. So we just added some bits to the Greedo scene to make it a little bit longer that gets across that information, and then jettisoned that other scene. This all happened while we were shooting. It wasn't done in the cutting room."
That is awesome work, Spaced Ranger! will test your script and see how it looks in motion, I'm not so fond of the slight fuzziness it introduces going by that sample pic but it may be a worthy tradeoff I guess. Thanks! :)
Will post a sample of your script...
Baronlando said:
timdiggerm And wouldn't there have been a sandstorm scene in ROTJ? or B-Wings?
So, the "artist" was limited by problems. I can see the rough cut perspective.
Only if every movie ever is now just a rough cut.
What about those other rough cuts, the '81, '97 and '04 cuts? It's incredibly sad that some people really have bought those words from Lucas, brainwashed or lack of intelligence to understand how the film industry works? But who can blame them, there are new generations of kids who actually grow up with this new stuff, next year Hayden Christensen have been part of Return of the Jedi for 10 years, think about that.
I just hope a new law comes into place in US so that other films can avoid the sad fate that happened to Star Wars should there be an copyright holder going wacko in the future.
Wolfman said:
msycamore said:
1981 Re-Release Trailer ("The Star Wars saga continues, returning for a limited engagement")
Not found on the official 2004 bonus DVD or Editdroid. Source ???
Star Wars trilogy The Definitive Collection VHS Executor Box Set.
Thanks, I assume it's visually identical to the Launch and '82 Re-release?
Anchorhead said:
Star Wars:
Teaser Trailer (Somewhere in space, this may all be happening right now)
Man, a trailer has never put the hook in me the way that one did. A great look into how truly far far away that galaxy felt when I was a kid. All these years later, that trailer still holds the same magic.
Agree, I can imagine it may come across as a bit cheesy to some nowadays but I also love the foreign feeling I get from that original teaser, there's a vast unknown galaxy there. To me much of the magic is the music that is used as we are so familiar with Williams score attached to these images.
That is also one of the reason I like the "Vivaldi teaser" for ESB which was done like a spiritual sequel to that original teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9z8se3Aho despite the cheesy scream by Luke used twice, it was a much better trailer than the earlier one as it show much less of the film.
^^ I get the same result on my iphone. But when I try to log in on my PC it just tries to load the page in an eternity with a white screen as a result. Might be an issue on my end then as no one else have any problem...
Yes, Russ had a VCD copy which he posted a screencap of and it was Pan & Scan if I recall correctly.
I have also noticed that color fringing on Puggo's transfer you described on the last page, I'll see if I can use your method for it, thanks for the suggestion, appreciated! :)
AntcuFaalb said:
I just want to see a proper restoration from the (damaged) IP used for the original theatrical run.
Wouldn't this give us the best possible quality while still retaining everything unique to a theatrical print, including (but not limited to) the infamous tantive orange errors?
I would prefer a HD release sourced from an IP as well, but not necessarily a damaged one. I know you refer to the tears in the tantive corridor, we know it was there on every theatrical print in '77 but that's the sort of flaw that would get cleaned up for a modern video release, the same goes for all built-in dirt that shows up as black specks in a lot of the optical effects.
That's the standard on how it gets treated these days as most people don't expect to see blemishes, hairs, specks of dirt or cue marks when they buy a restored version of their favorite film, with DVD and Blu-ray we have become pretty used to everything looking perfect and clean these days even if that was never the case even when these films were brand new.
I would personally don't mind a restoration with an emphasis on preservation but if we're being realistic something like the archival cuts of Blade Runner is the least we can ask for, those were sourced from IP's and they turned out looking pretty damn nice. And I think that's pretty much what everyone expect from an original Star Wars release.
AntcuFaalb said:
I know they still have it because they used that IP for the ANH Technidisc LD.
We don't know for sure if that was sourced from an Interpositive or Internegative though, I'm leaning towards an Internegative based on how rough it was (just check all the white specks of dirt), but in any case if they really wanted to, we could easily get a nice video release from one of the IP's. They just don't want to give us that, we are supposed to buy their new stuff and never look back.
Hope everything goes well with this project, looking forward to seeing your progress, haven't been able to login for a very long time, anyone else having the same issue?
Impressive results, good job g-force!
bkev said:
Way to throw him under the bus for no reason.
??
bkev said:
I think even King Kong features better compositing than Star Wars... I'm actually not against cleaning up things like the speeder shot. From what I've seen the drop of quality is genuinely apparent and not just a figment of Lucas's imagination. Sure, you might not notice it on a release print - but, honestly, what official restoration comes from one of those? This isn't replacing the effect we're talking about. We're talking about presenting it as best possible. So I say DNR the hell out of scenes like the landspeeder one, so long as you don't touch it any further. Maybe that makes me less of a purist than I thought, but cleaning up a scene (in moderation) like that would be a far cry away from removing wires or mirror reflections.
I don't know what sore point I hit bkev, but at no point did I ever talk about not accepting any cleaning up of elements, as it goes without saying when it's one of the major and most common things done in any modern film restoration. So I have no idea why you brought all this up as an counter argument to what I said. Care to explain? Cleaning up dirt doesn't equal re-compositing.
danny_boy brings up very good points regarding the film elements which I completely agree with him on, the film never was meant to be seen straight from the negative. Generation loss even things out and many things like props and sets were often made to look good with that in mind as well.
The apparent quality differences between film elements in the original Star Wars have always been there, it's even seen in low-res transfers such as LD or VHS as well. My point is, if you cannot accept that Star Wars is a flawed masterpiece with all the shortcomings of its time, then the original film isn't perhaps what you want. So in that regard I guess many on these boards are impossible to please.
danny_boy said:
Some where in their vault ITV have the telecine of Star Wars(which debuted in 1982 on UK TV)----it may even be a telecine of one of the rare technicolor 35mm prints(like the one that surfaced in Baltimore 2 years back)----the colours of the ITV telecine are richer than the contemporary 1982 VHS/laserdiscs.
I would love to record that telecine to DVD/blu ray too!
Too bad ol George wont let that happen.
The '82 UK ITV telecine is a damn nice and theatrical authentic source in terms of color timing for the most part, but I can tell you that it's definitely not a telecine of an IB technicolor print, there's several things with that source that explains why that is the case, one being the different X-Wing takeoff-composite: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/topic/14705/
danny_boy said:
timdiggerm said:
danny_boy said:
I actually have the priviledge of having watched them on a Sony 4K projector and it is brutal on optical composite effects shots/duplicate negative material.This is not the fault of the projector---it is merely accentuating the limitations of the technology used during the making of these films.
Limitations that were obscured by the photochemical analogue dulpication processes of the late 70's("less is more") when the film was running in theaters(be it 35 or 70mm) and also by the low resolution displays when these same films hit VHS/Beta/V2000/laserdisc aswell as (8mm and 16mm home movies).
And that is why, despite what some on this forum hope, we'll never get the OT released in HD with the original compositing.
Personally I hope that it does see the light of day on blu ray---BUT---be prepared to tolerate the quality differentials between those non effects and special effects footage(despite Lucas's attempts to eradicate this descrepancy by using intentionally degraded non special effects shots).
Be also prepared for sideburns and 70's hairstyles, or watch a film from the digital era. I guess many aren't prepared to accept that Star Wars is a classic spfx-film from the 70's after Lucas' brainwashing (that means tons of grain on opticals, matte lines and dirt printed in). If they can release King Kong, Metropolis or Close Encounters they can damn well release the classic Star Wars films in HD with all original compositing intact, if not, they may as well not bother releasing it at all IMO.
TServo2049 said:
The transition between the '81 crawl and '77 flyover is also a dissolve. Perhaps both dissolves were on the print itself - but to answer that question, we'd have to find a flat 16mm that specifically has the ANH crawl.
Had a second look at it and no, it's definitely a straight cut.
The dissolve to the end credits suggests the source had the opening day credits in place but it could also be a simple case were they wanted to have the credit card centered and didn't want to alter their set pan & scan decision - they had five options on how to treat it.
1) letterbox it
2) squeeze it
3) include the full body of Chewie
4) include the full body of Threepio
5) include one half of Chewie and Threepio
The operator went with nr 3, and maybe the dissolve was added so they could have the credit card centered. But then again, they opted to squeeze the credit roll...
That's funny, I assumed they just ported over the same content found on the DVD release. Why they decided to suddenly dig up a worse quality trailer is weird, what about the rest of the BD bonus features? same material?
I doubt Lucas himself is responsible, but you never know, I guess it's a good thing to show the kids how awful the quality of the original film really was. ;)
I first aimed high, and wanted to include a lot of material but at this stage I will just be glad if I can finnish the main feature. I own a copy of the 2004 reg 1 DVD, I don't know, I could perhaps drop the LD transfer into its menu structure and modify them and include the radio spots posted on starwars.com etc, I also received some very nice hi-res scans of that original trailer some time ago.
Sure, new stuff can just be avoided if it's not your thing. But my bitterness stems from seeing what I actually do love with a passion (the original films) being abused time and time again. It has been fist-fucked in the ass, kicked in the nuts, laughed at and it keeps being kicked when it's down. Star Wars is IMO a freak show nowadays where it has been treated as software for the last fifteen years.
When you cannot walk into a video store and buy a copy of these important titles, it is very hard for me to get excited by imitators. There's only one original which everything is riding the coattails of, and it's still treated as a bastard where cheap pornos have better video releases. Lucasfilm is a company that for more than ten years have actively opposed modern film history by suppressing these classics that built the company.
Lynne Hale (Lucasfilm spokeswoman) in 2006:
"We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions."
I presume that statement still stands as where the company stands on the issue today. And as long as it does, I don't give a damn about a new "SW-film" being released every year or so, new spin-offs and series etc. I'm not that kind of a SW-fan that swallow everything new they toss at me, I guess you could say I'm not a "Star Wars-fan" at all in some twisted way (as my fandom mostly contain two classic films made in the 70's) and nor do I think they have us old fans in mind when they're producing this new stuff either...
Darth Mallwalker said:
Seems you have a different mastering than Arnie.d's X9 cap
Interesting... I can understand that there was re-pressings made but you have to wonder why a new mastering took place of these releases. My JSC ESB proved to be a different mastering compared to Arnie.d's ESB cap as well.
AntcuFaalb said:
Does anyone have the R3 or R2J GOUT release?
I've heard that the cropping is different, so I'm interested in comparing them to the R1 release to see if anything else is different.
If this is where you heard it: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Trilogy-Original-Theatrical-Versions-2006-DVD-Flaw-List/post/594821/#TopicPost594821
It's because none was unaware of the additional cropping that took place in g-force stabilization script, hence the minor difference in his comparisons.
SilverWook said:
http://news.yahoo.com/meteor-explodes-over-russia-1-100-injured-175838744.html
I don't know about you guys, but this scares the crap out of me. And yet, it plays second fiddle to CNN's obsession with that cruise ship. Had this happened last year, the 2012 doomsday crowd would have gone even more insane than they did. Between this and Tunguska 1908, Russia can't get a break.
This is also the kind of event that could have been mistaken for a first strike nuclear attack not too many decades ago.
Could it be Kal-El?
Seriously though, that is scary and fascinating at the same time.
Harmy said:
So, the BD version isn't the theatrical cut?
The original 1973 theatrical cut a.k.a. the studio cut have never been released on home video, the BD contains the 25th anniversary edition which is basically the 1978 Re-release cut but with new opening titles and some retinting of the portraits in the epilogue (they were originally in sepia). The differences between the cuts are nowhere near as drastic as with THX 1138. Lucas was able to restore a few scenes that had been taken out by the studio in its original release after his success with Star Wars, and create his director's cut that got a limited release in '78 (the same thing happened with THX 1138 that same year). They also took the opportunity to remix the audio in Dolby Stereo for the reissue.
Scenes that was inserted:
According to IMDB:
"In the original release, John Milner is listed as having been killed by a drunk driver in June of 1964 in the closing segment just before the final credits. When the movie was reedited in 1978, the date of his death was changed to December of 1964, most likely in anticipation of the release of its sequel, More American Graffiti."
I personally think both the 2004 NTSC DVD and BD release are perfectly fine transfers, I don't own it myself but recall the BD had the warm color palette back that was missing on the previous DVD transfer.
captainsolo said:
Just to clarify, where does the project stand? I knew you were doing averages of the captures Silver did and had had some trouble trying to sync audio and IVTC.
Thanks for the support guys! At this rate we might have an official release before I'm done. ;)
Besides my own technical issues along the way, there was some weird hiccups in the captures causing different frame counts between them, one part was actually impossible to IVTC in the one capture I'm using for the main bulk of the transfer but I restored those frames from one of the other captures.
Due to this weird video glitch I didn't want to use the audio from that capture for fear of it being affected in some ways like the video. So I took the audio from one of the other captures but couldn't get it to sync for some reason. But then I was reminded by these odd frame differences between captures. So what I need to do is locate these points where this capture differ or just use the audio from the main source that is used and be done with it.
Baronlando said:
I guess I just grew up. Accepted that SW '77 is too obscure and niche to do what we expect.
Now we're talking! :)
SS4DarthPayne said:
The Empire Strikes Back:
Teaser Trailer #1 [McQuarrie] (The Empire has been repulsed)
Best current source: ?
Teaser Trailer #2 [Vivaldi] (A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away)*
Best current source: ?
Theatrical Trailer (Luke Skywalker and Han Solo rescued the princess)
Best current source: ?
Re-Release Trailer (The Star Wars Saga continues, with a special limited engagement of)
Best current source: ?
*Are there two versions of this trailer? I know the original has blue lasers. I am interested in knowing what the version floating around on Youtube, with red lasers and a weird font at the end is. Is it a recreation?
There often seems to be alot of confusion on the release order of the trailers for ESB, not really surprising as they are mislabeled on the official 2004 bonus DVD as well.
1979 Teaser Trailer #1 [McQuarrie] ("The Empire has been repulsed")
See my post here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Dolby-Digital-41-Surround-Alien-Anthology/post/579347/#TopicPost579347 different cropping and lack of logo on the 2004 DVD version. Never seen a full scope version of either one.
1979 Teaser Trailer #2 ("Luke Skywalker and Han Solo rescued the princess")
^ Ford narration, it is mislabeled Launch Trailer on the 2004 bonus DVD. The official release is in solid quality, seems to be exactly the same one used on the Editdroid disc.
1979, 1980 Teaser Trailer #3 [Vivaldi] ("A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away")
Not found on the official 2004 bonus DVD, as already mentioned Team -1 have beautifully restored a scope version recently. Looks fantastic! I've heard that there should exist one without narration but I don't know if it's true or not. What you saw on Youtube is most definitely a fan-recreation, the original contains blue AT-AT laser fire.
1980 Theatrical Trailer ("The new chapter in the continuing Star Wars saga is now in our galaxy")
Not found on the official 2004 bonus DVD, as mentioned above the '79 Teaser took its place. Found on the Editdroid disc, Ok quality but cropped.
1981 Re-Release Trailer ("The Star Wars saga continues, returning for a limited engagement")
Not found on the official 2004 bonus DVD or Editdroid. Source ???
1982 Re-Release Trailer ("The Star Wars Saga continues, with a special limited engagement of")
Visually identical to the '80 Theatrical, just different announcement. Included on the 2004 bonus DVD. The official release is in solid quality but cropped, seems to be exactly the same one used on the Editdroid disc.
