msycamore

Even the lighting/rehearsal Yoda from ESB look more believable than the joke in the prequels.

Other threads to check out for info on the audio mixes:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70mm-6-Track-Dolby-Stereo-mix-differences/topic/14058/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Project-The-other-differences-in-the-SW-mono-mix/topic/14036/

Antcufaalb, the split-lightsaber artifacts were fixed already in later pressings of the Definitive Collection LD set. Traces of the same problem is still present in the GOUT, they just corrected the most offensive ones.

The initial glitches and flaws in the DC set was numerous, initial pressings lacked footage in ESB (Leia welding) for example.

Thanks for clearing up the question mark on Escape from New York, that's great info GregK! :)

You mentioned Suspiria, there has indeed been many issues with it, both in terms of weak transfers and remixed audio tracks. It was originally released with two distinct English audio mixes - a mono mix and a four-track stereo, what I never understood is why the DTS/DD 5.1 remix on the old Anchor Bay DVD matched the original mono mix in terms of content instead of the much superior original surround mix. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Apparently, the original mono mix is to be found on the French or was it Japanese Blu-ray? The audio on the UK Blu-ray should be a fine remix and is based on the original surround mix or so I've heard, but at least one line of dialogue went missing around a reel change... always some issues. The old Magnum LD is still the way to go if you want to hear the original four-track mix.

GregK said:

There of course are many many more examples, but this is off the top of my head. If someone wanted to compile a master list, that would be awesome.

Yeah, I agree. I should perhaps start listing all the problematic releases in my first post. Thanks for pointing these out, didn't know about Ben Hur.

Harmy said:

Yeah, but in movement I don't think it would make a noticeable difference. The speeder on the other hand...

Yeah, I do suspect it might not be worth it, and sorry for coming with suggestions this late in the game, just thought better mention my observations than not with all minutia being discussed in here.

Alderaan shooting first is the worst IMO.

Noticed when checking out your screencaps Harmy, that you seemed to have used what must be the GOUT for (0-42-05-01)?

DeEdv2

SWE LD (Technidisc)

Now, I haven't seen it in motion yet so the loss of detail here might be perfectly acceptable and blend in much better compared to utilizing a low-res DVNR-free LD source with its own set of shortcomings, and I guess 35mm sources might come available for you, but I just thought I would throw it out there in case you want me to upload the LD source for this transitional shot, it's hard for me to tell but it is possible if you or someone did a quick upscaling and videonoise reduction you would get a much better result than the GOUT footage there. Although, as with the infamous Mos Eisley pass by shot there's the trouble with the actual speeder element ending up being somewhat less detailed. :(

georgec said:

generalfrevious said:

I just want the originals on blu-ray too. Hope disney releases them in my lifetime.

 How old are you? :P

I guess TV's Frink may be even older. ;)

Luffy03 said:

While watching I noticed this little issue (some kind of lightsaber spot), but I'm not sure if it's not meant to be there ^^

http://s1279.beta.photobucket.com/user/MOTU-MAN/media/vlcsnap-2013-03-17-19h53m15s184_zpsad293f8f.png.html

 

He he, it's present in the original film. It just goes to show the level of dedication of Harmy. :)

What I saw of the colors in the screencaps uploaded looks damn near perfect to '77 SW, to transform the source material that is the '04 master which looks like a cheap hooker for the most part to how it now looks is a major accomplishment. Looking forward to check this out when it hits usenet, especially as I haven't seen the earlier ones.

Bingowings said:

Forget Fett hows about a Garindan movie.

That voice is so sexy.

I'd pay to see a Garindan movie. :)

When I saw the film when I was a kid, I completely failed to recognize what he/she was wearing and thought it was just a phony looking trunk. I must get me one of those, it is one sexy voiced suspicious looking character. :)

Scary stuff... clearly remember the news reports from that disaster. Let's just hope the next big one is far off.

althor1138 said:

Here is a clip. It happens around the 4 second mark.  This one jumps down for 3 frames and then back up. I've corrected it with the proper pulldown so it plays progressively. What do you think? I hope it's not the capture card lol.

Don't worry, the same jumps are present in my LD and Arnie.d's captures as well. Like your samples, keep up the good work!

Harmy said:

Yeah, I see what you mean. What I really meant before was that these pictures show that the BD is much closer to being accurate to the original colours than the DVD was, contrary to what many people said. You can't of course say how accurate it is exactly, because those pics aren't completely trustworthy.

Ah, ok sorry if my response came off as blunt. I agree, and that is also the case with the mid 90's LD IIRC, too cold IMO. What would be equally fantastic is an LPP print of Empire showing up. Nice to know these prints are out there and being taken care of.

bkev said:

ok what this is creepy.

Sorry to give you nightmares bkev. What's more wonderful about that pic IMO is the look on Alec's face, "What the hell am I doing in a place like this in a movie like this." :)

I'm not aware of the EU darth ender, could it be a shemale or are you still talking about Guinness? ;)

bkev said:

From what I recall of the pit reflection, it's tough to miss but it's there for so short a time it's really an inconsequential loss -- like the wires on the plane in Goldfinger. Just my two cents.

Very much agree, but it's also for that same reason the elimination is such a weird thing to do. The thing is, everyone who sees or have seen Raiders knows that Harrison isn't facing the cobra without safety precautions, before the DVD transfer this reflection was seldom mentioned by fans seeing the film, well known but seldom mentioned, then when this inconsequential thing gets erased it draws an enormous attention to itself to the point where people studying the scene because there was an alteration made. So ultimately the removal gets more known than the original flaw was in the first place.

Harmy said:

msycamore, did you actually compare the BD to those images?

Yes, I did. I own the BD myself and I think it's a very fine release and not nearly as bad as some early screencaps or internet-alarms made me believe, but IMO they tried bringing back the warm hues again with a varied succesful result.

Harmy said:

Well, I did and I can tell you that aside from the print pictures being even more yellow/green tinted, the BD sure shows a broader spectrum of colors than these pictures - and sure, they don't seem to be exactly professionally scanned, so the print itself could be better but you'd be pushing it pretty hard to be judging the BD to have narrower spectrum of colors than this print just from those pics.

Well, you should of course be cautious judging screencaps like that but I'd say you would be pushing it equally as hard then by saying the BD colors seems very much accurate based on those same pics. Should those pics be something you bring up as a sort of yardstick or not?

When I mentioned a broader spectrum of colors I'm talking pre-digital grading, every shot in the BD transfer contains the same shades of colors independant of scene, which ultimately makes it hit or miss depending on what scene you're looking at. It's not like those who are spotting this stuff a mile away believe the colors; teal or orange was invented just a few years ago, it's in the way they are used, often in the way physically impossible with lab-processing.

Raiders was shot mostly on location quick and dirty, to get that consistent timing back in '81 would have demanded an enormous level of accuracy and pre-planning from the cinematographer, set designer and costume designer etc.

I love those LPP pics because of the simple fact that you can see the bronze/golden brown and yellow hues which I very much associate with certain parts of Raiders, in the BD those parts are more headed towards a dull orange/yellow.

And this is of course all my simple opinion, I don't claim to be an authority on what is "accurate" or not, I just tellin it the way I see it. All in all I'm happy with how it turned out, especially with the reverted alterations but I don't see it as the flawless transfer either. I'm also aware of "is there any new release this guy accept?" which is why this is small potatoes, but Raiders is Raiders so it would be unusual if its BD debut wasn't surrounded by controversy. It's one of the most loved films out there after all.

Yes, re-read that article and I very much believe you are right about your assumptions Baron. Sorry if I misremember where you guys live but were you guys directly affected by it, SilverWook, Baronlando? In Sweden we are happily spared from such catastrophes.

And like Spaced Ranger said, please keep us updated Silver, I am praying to Ohm... on an unrelated note I got my Italian VHS checked a few days ago and it matches what errico sent us a few months ago, the unique intro on his recording was absent. And the quality of the tape was absolutely horrible, I get the feeling this was an old very used rental or something from the way it looked, oh well.

What about this guy:

Doesn't he deserve his own film?

Moved the discussion from: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/team-negative1-star-wars-1977-35mm-theatrical-version-release-details-and-updates/topic/14590/page/23/

You_Too said:

And for some reason I can't find a single image comparison of this snake reflection everybody keeps talking about. Can't be something big?

It's something you notice in motion and not so much on a still, it is gone when Indy falls into the Well of the Souls. When Marion falls and faces the cobra, the reflection is still there. Not the end of the world, I only wish they'd make up their mind about it.

There's no question about it in my mind that Raiders should be warm and that the DVD transfer is off but to me those beautiful LPP pics just reaffirms that there was a broader spectrum of colors in the film compared to what is present in the BD.

EDIT: moved...

Laserschwert said:

1-25-26/1-25-42 - is there a reason why the second shot doesn't use the cleaner and more detailed matte painting of the first shot?

I would guess he wanted to make a really faithful recreation, even if the same matte painting was used for both shots, the results were not the same, one of them didn't come out looking that well in the original film.

Holy shit Harmy, that's some mighty impressive work! Beautiful job on the colors, didn't think it was even possible to repair them that well, incredible.

I don't want to give you more work but one tiny, tiny observation; there was two wires that was eliminated against the sky in the SE, above the left stormtroopers head in pic 0-53-09-06. I don't think anyone will miss them but I just thought I would mention it just in case you didn't know about it and want to work your magic on it in the future.

chyron8472 said:

What font is this?

It's the old SerifGothic, the digitized version lack the stylized alternatives, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-DVD-Covers/post/455024/#TopicPost455024

bkev said:

Also, FOX owns Star Wars '77 perpetually. I can imagine Disney will eventually figure out a distribution deal, but this is even more worrisome than the 2020-date FOX has distribution for the other films up until.

Fox may own the distribution rights but since the late nineties Lucasfilm is the owner of Star Wars '77. It is Disney/Lucasfilm that decides when/if something is going to be distributed. I can't see the situation is any different now than it was before the deal with Disney.

Spaced Ranger said:

The source is the question. George Lucas complained that his Star Wars original was falling apart (let's just play along with that claim for now) and Star Wars was years afterward. In what condition might the THX 1138 original be, as well?

Why would a director make a "director's cut" (aside from marketing to fill his coffers) and arbitrarily trim the frame throughout his otherwise non-problematic movie? Could it be the negative was gone (for whatever reason) and the choice for source was the U.S. edge-enhanced-DNR'ed(?)-mess master or the U.K. cropped-but-non-processed master?

The original negative wasn't gone, like I said they went back to the original negative for the "director's cut", all print anomalies seen in the US/JAP LD transfer are also present in the UK LD transfer, I'm 99.9% sure it's two different transfers made from the same print. The cropping on that shot posted on the last page doesn't even match the UK transfer anyway, it happen to be similarly cropped at the top of the frame but that's it, and like Harmy said it's completely irrelevant to what source they used for the DVD/BD.

The different cropping between releases is nothing unusual, quite the opposite, in this case it allowed me to take advantage of it where the UK was much better framed in one reel where the US was badly cropped - the infamous "coily" reel. My plan is to upload the full UK LD transfer as well as it have its benefits over the US transfer in some parts, less sharpening artifacts being one of them.

As to what condition the film is in today, ILM's Paul Hill: "Because of the Northridge quake, a lot of the original footage was water damaged. That’s why we knew when we went in that we were going to have to do some extensive restoration work."  http://www.awn.com/articles/people/back-future-ithx-1138i/page/1%2C1 

True story or just marketing speak, that's basically all we know. It's impossible for us to know what condition the material was in and if they had to utilize IP's or other source material for their so called restoration. With George Lucas' obsession to tailor his films according to his own daily fitness, it's hard to not get cynical when reading something like that, but ultimately as with Star Wars, water damaged or not, George Lucas doesn't want his original films out there, if he wanted them saved and to be seen it would happen.

poita said:

If anyone ever wants any 16mm or Super8 scanned to help with this, just let me know. I have a clawless flashscan type system, so worn sprocket holes are no problem.

That is awesome! now if only a scope print would show up for sale. If they even exist...

Great find, none! if only it had been subtitled instead of narrated, but interesting nevertheless.