msycamore

Those kind of recollections that Orinoco_Womble told about the 70mm audio always make me glad and frustrated ;) and makes me dream and wish I could have experienced that.

In a week or two I hope I can come a little closer that dream when I'm gettin a replacement receiver so I can experience hairy_hen's wonderful gift to the fans. :)

dark_jedi said:

I made a sample DVD of Star wars to test how msycamores subs look and to go through and see if I could have 5 audio options for SW, well it worked ALL 5 audio options WILL be available on Star Wars, and the subs look GREAT!

I'm glad to hear the subs turned out good, :) I've only seen them on my computer screen so far, so I'm looking forward to see how they will look on a real TV.

Thanks for the more clear explaination, Chainsaw. ;)

IMO. it isn't.

Oh, the '85 is a digital remix of the theatrical Stereo with C-3PO's tractor beam line from the mono track included, that's all. Don't know anything about how it differs in dynamic range though but to me it sounds almost exactly like the theatrical Dolby Stereo mix.

hairy_hen said:

Since the '93 version comes from a source that is at least a generation older than the theatrical stereo mix, it isn't much of a stretch to imagine that a few more sound effects were added to their final mix that had not been there previously.  To me, this suggests that the elusive 70mm mix of Empire quite possibly did not contain these sound effects either, since it would have been done first.  If true, the mystery of the missing snowspeeder effect may at last be solved.  :)

Sorry if I don't understand what you mean here, are you suggesting that the missing snowspeeder effect is a thing that's been brought over from the 70mm audio track? It sounds very logical to me.

dark_jedi said:

msycamore said:

I actually think it could've been on one single line in the theater, this is maybe not so important but please tell me what you think and how you want it.

msycamore, I trust your judgment on this one, you have researched this way more than I have, I am going to use yours subs whether they are 100% correct or not, who knows you may find more info soon on it anyways, we are still a little ways off from doing Jedi anyways.

Yeah, I just wanted to hear your opinion on it and what you prefer if I don't find out anything about it. The LD sub scenes you sent me was of much help to me though, thanks.

Sorry for taken so long, I've checked the new audio file of Empire on the places that had some problems, and to my ears it seems corrected and fine, haven't gone through the whole movie again yet but I'll do that as soon as possible. Unfortunately I don't have any phones that I can connect to my computer so I just listen through my computer speakers so I may not be able to spot any small discrepencies in the audio, just so you know.

I'm a little confused over the audio options you have presented for Star Wars, you list '77 Dolby Stereo and '77 mono and also a 35mm Stereo maybe it's just a small mistake of you but the '77 mono and stereo tracks are 35mm, do you actually mean the '85 stereo mix will be included? Also isolated scores can be a cool feature but I'm no fan of it, it will also bring down the much needed videobitrate. IMO you should just include the theatrical mixes but others may think differently of course.

Interesting observations on the audio track, hairy_hen and ChainsawAsh! and I thought I studied this closely! Not with phones though, just muxed with the gout video through computer speakers. I also noticed the hiss around the Fox logo but just thought it was part of the old master, didn't notice any precence of hiss through the actual film though. But I think you'll need better equipment or phones to notice those smaller but equally important issues, I really doubt I would be able to spot the lag in milliseconds without having the waveforms to look at in front of me though. But I cannot believe that I missed that audio glitch at the carbon freezing chamber, that one was obvious. Anyway, that's why it is important that more people help to check it.

Yes, dark_jedi I would love to see a small video sample from your latest encode.

Also I have a little doubt about a line of dialogue from Jedi how you all want me to present it, as we don't have any more theatrical reference besides the EoD doc, I have to ask how you want me to do it.

The line in question is: "This bounty hunter is my kind of scum... / ...fearless and inventive." the scene plays out with no cuts in it, but there is a slight pause in his dialogue suggesting a split of the line but I'm not so sure of it, so I would like to hear what you think.

On the old LD, dark_jedi captured his audio from it is presented on two lines:

"This bounty hunter is my kind of scum,

fearless and inventive."

On the '93/'95 LD's and the '97SE LD it's split up and with ellipses:

"This bounty hunter is my kind of scum... / ...fearless and inventive."

I actually think it could've been on one single line in the theater, this is maybe not so important but please tell me what you think and how you want it.

Also the splashing you heard in the cave scene is present in the '93 audio, and I think all the other mixes, it's been there as long as I can remember, I just think it is easier to hear some sounds in this mix as it doesn't have the same dynamic range. I'm not sure about it but I think I've heard it was a concept of Vader coming out of the water or something that was cut from the final film.

Damn you're right! I totally missed that double igniting lightsaber effect, weird. :) The out of sync issue with the spotting of the AT-AT's is just bad ADR, as far as I know it has been like that in every mix, there's also many other places in the film that this happens that can easily be mistaken as badly synced up audio. I found it much worse in Jedi though.

Sorry, I'm not on AIM either.

I've just listened to your Jedi audio track and just like the Empire track it seems perfect and in sync. Very well done, dark_jedi! it seems you've gotten great at this! I'll admit it was a little harder for me on this one though as I'm not as familiar with Jedi as I am with Empire but I hope you have other people that check them for you just so you can be sure of it. Thanks for what must've been hard work!

hairy_hen said:

when the Imperial walkers first open fire on the rebels in their trenches, the explosive sounds from the laser impacts are different in the '80 mix than in the '93

Yes, I also noticed that but wasn't entirely sure of it, I'm really looking forward to finally have this mix synced with the gout.

I really hope this project isn't dead. It's too important for dvnr smear haters like me.

Is the colors on Empire equally as bad as on Star Wars of this set? Just curious, I've never seen it.

hairy_hen I think he has already corrected the mistake he did with the Empire audio, but he will surely need your ears again when the second attempt at it has been made.

Well, I can imagine it's almost impossible to remember this sort of differences in the films, it was also a different time back then when you didn't have different versions of the films to worry about in your mind, you just went to see The Empire Strikes Back and had a wonderful time, not wondering about if anything was different in the presentation.

I also doubt they created new 70mm prints, afterall they were really expensive, but it was just a thought I had.

dark_jedi I have some very good poster scans of SW and Empire that you could possibly include in the rom folder. If not, maybe someone could make some very classy covers for you, I've asked for color correction help on these in the hi-res poster thread but to my surprise no one has given me a pm yet. I really thought I would be bombed with messages...

I can see only on that picture that there has been a vast improvement, I'm headin' over to your thread then.;)

Looking damn good, dark_jedi!

I've finally seen this disc and I think they did a very good job on this, I agree with zombie that a more subtle degraining of the picture than the g-force script is recommended, I've not seen his latest effort though, I did an encode of his v.4 something... so much can of course have been improved since then, loved his stabilizing and anti-aliasing of the picture though. And I'm looking forward to dark_jedi's encodes of it. Anyway, the improved contrast levels and sharpness on this disc helps to make it look more cinematic and detailed somehow but as some before me have already said the darker picture also crush details in some parts so it's a compromise I guess. I think one of the reasons it's also sharper is that it lack some anti-aliasing, also a matter of what you prefer. But degraining or not, IMO the Gout video can never look like film no matter what you do, but if you degrain the picture you will lose the last information that's available on these discs and that's not much, no matter if it's dirt or real detail, even the professional auto degraining process can't decide what's dirt or not, just take a look at the '04 DVD when Luke comes back to his burning homestead and the landspeeder-window was mistaken as dirt by the cleaning process. 

But this is one of the best I've seen so far, but I still prefer my own dual layer encode of Moth3r's pwnage script but with the colors almost turned back to Gout levels. ;) but it would be nice to include g-force stabilizing to it in the future. Also the menus on this disc alone makes it worth to download, very professional looking, a real love letter to the fans of this film. Thanks again for sharing.

Is there maybe a possibility that they also presented a new 70mm cut of Empire with a slightly new mix when it was re-released the following years after its premiere when the 35mm cut had in a way already taken the place as the final cut? Or was it the same prints with the same "unfinished shots" that was also presented in '81, '82 or even later...?

A poster advertising a special 70mm screening of the trilogy back in 1985, lucky bastards who saw it! ;)

Ok, it seems to be out of sync all the way from the moment the Imperial fleet is introduced until vader have his helmet put on in his chamber there it starts to sync up again, when Luke start his training with yoda it seems to drift again, should I continue?

Well, I take my last comment back. It's actually gettin worse all the way in to the asteroid field. I'll continue to check, is there any particular editing points in the audio I can check, if I understand it correctly there is side switches on the LD right?

Ok, I've just started skimming through it and I'm sorry to inform you that it's not in sync, It started out good, it wasn't until Admiral Piett did his entrance talking with Ozzel & co that I noticed it but I wasn't really sure of it until the battle of Hoth got started that I noticed it was way out of sync. A good spot to check it is General Veers line "Prepare to target the main generators". I'll continue to check the rest of the film for you if you want?

Edit: It seems to get in sync a little later though, when the lovely sound of the crasching snow speeder appears, that was strangely absent from the '93 release. Damn, what I have missed that soundeffect! ;)

Thank you dark_jedi for struggling with getting this audio track available, I'll also check if the sync is alright.

I agree zombie, actually my plan was to make two different script, one for those who don't have any overscan problem.