MalaStrana#2

theprequelsrule said:

I thought young Leia was an annoying little b&*()ch to be honest. Leia in SW77 has earned her attitude towards Luke and Han since she is a competent, professional political subversive and fighter; whereas they are essentially bumbling amateurs.

At first I liked her lil character but the series expended her too far. Now she can even fix stuff and especially her red eyes droid by casually removing a ship placed by an inquisitor. Besides the show is over foreshadowing her role to come with lots of dialogues. It reminds me of the core issues of TPM where the dialogues state that Anakin might be dangerous even though NOTHING in the movie shows he might be dangerous : all you have is a sad little kid trying his best to do stuff all along and being a bit clumsy when succeeding. At least he actually has a sort of impact on the narrative here and there, while lil Leia is just a glorified mcguffin.

When a tvseries requires so much explanations from the viewer to make sense of everything, it might indicate the show isn’t that well done. It reminds me of the fans explaining every inconsistency between the PT and the OT: at some point it’s easier to accept it’s not consistent. We can still enjoy the various entries of the franchise (no longer a Saga) in spite of that. There is the inner logic and the franchise logic. With OWK we get it failing on both sides however 🥲

Maybe this is all a very fair explanation after all; we just need a Vader voice over : “There’s Reva, set the lightsaber for stun”.

I’m pretty sure season 2 is gonna be a checklist to explain every bit of inconcistency of season 1, which has been a SW trend lately along with stagging other spin off shows: trying to fix the previous show. We’ll hear of the “Reva maneuver” in season 2 I guess.

NeverarGreat said:

Exactly. Before the final episode I was imagining numerous scenarios where they would fight but get separated, or where one would think the other was dead, or even where both of them are knocked unconscious like in TLJ and Obi-wan is rescued by his friends before Vader wakes up…

Anything.

Maybe it was too soon to already rip off Ren v Rey first duel 😅

yotsuya said:

the original film was saved by Lucas getting a lot of input.

It’s called a writing process and putting hard work… of course you don’t reach perfection by writing first drafts that aren’t challenged. Something Lucas himself forgot when he wrote the PT: the core story was there but none of the hard reshape work was put into them. The gap between ANH and TPM lies there. Since at least Lucas is a wonderful storyteller there still is something appealing to those stories though : this is why the gap is also wide between TPM and OWK, this later being the low point of the saga in term of script where nothing is earned and no stakes are developed (I can’t still believe that Reva took Leia to interrogate her while Vader was fighting Ben: wasn’t her point to lure Vader into a trap so why the fuck is she doing that except for lazy screenwriters to remake ANH in the next episode ?).

and for TESB he turned to a very skilled writer.

And yet they drastically changed the first version of the script. Putting lots of work to make a worthy sequel rooted from ANH abs going into new directions.

You seem to discover that you get something of quality through hard work…

henzINNIT said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:
It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO.

ANH is considered one of the best scripts ever written. It’s still being studied in film school for ts achievements, thanks to Lucas rewitting it to perfect it numberous times. TESB is simply the continuation of this high quality standard rooted in the foundation of a perfect script. Only what came after wasn’t as good and was sometimes even quite terrible, such as this tv show.

The original Star Wars was saved in editing by cutting great chunks out of that script.

I see the consequences of an interesting YouTube video… you confuse the script quality and the final movie. Also reaching the « simplicity » of ANH is incredibly difficult : just see how complex OWK is. Complex and badly written. ANH has 2 action scenes in its first 30 minutes, introduces all its protagonists, establishes a complete universe with its rules and its story with what is clearly at stake (again compare with OWK: when does this show even try to create stakes others that the fact the audience knows Leia and Luke are kinda important in LATER movies?). You even get long sequences without dialogues and you get to follow two characters where none of which is even human. Simplicity here is the consequence of hard work, of multiple rewrites, of research, etc. OWK looks like a first draft that went in production as-is…

SW wasn’t saved through editing : editing made it better. So was the music, the clever casting choices, the special effects, etc. It’s a miracle. Which could only exist because it has the solid roots of an amazing script that EVERY screenwriter does study.

I can’t believe on this forum that we need to explain why ANH is a tremendous script 😅

FrederikOlsen said:
It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO.

ANH is considered one of the best scripts ever written. It’s still being studied in film school for ts achievements, thanks to Lucas rewitting it to perfect it numberous times. TESB is simply the continuation of this high quality standard rooted in the foundation of a perfect script. Only what came after wasn’t as good and was sometimes even quite terrible, such as this tv show.

Matt.F said:

Leaving Vader alive results in Palpatine’s defeat and the fall of the Empire (at least until Palapatine returned “somehow” lol).

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” to bring a bit of Tolkien into the Star Wars chat!

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

But Ben smelling piss (to the point a jawa can hardly stand next to him) and not helping a fellow Jedi are “in character” ? Something people just reinvent anything to shoehorn inconsistent stuff.

Something it’s easier to say “yep true it’s not great and not very consistent, but I like it nonetheless”. I like ROTS, I still find it’s failling in many places, I won’t just make out of the blue assumptions to defend any single stuff about it especially shitty stuff.

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Again, nothing sustained anywhere in this tvseries that you just create entirely by yourself. Anakin should not have killed Dooku but he should instead have made him prisonner. Obi-Wan has no issue killing Grievous. Here, Ben just… leaves. It’s ridiculous and the only reason he lets Vader live is because Vader needs to be alive at this point of the story. The rest is just assumptions that you DON’T see in this tvseries.

As long as fans will continue accepting terrible screenwriting because they patch their own assumptions into huge plot holes, SW and other modern tvseries will stay that mediocre.

danieldubb said:

everything is looking great here… I was just curious if anyone else didnt like the obi wan flying rocks part?.. just doesnt feel right to me somehow… a small nitpick but just curious

It looks ridiculous and ugly yeah. It’s like « Rey at the end of TLJ + Vader throwing some stuff at Luke in TESB ». It also is how new SW content creators see the Force: as a gimmick to make stones fly… (I still think Disney doesn’t understand anything about what Ryan Johnson was trying to warn them about 😬)

Acbagel said:

Ben won’t kill Vader because he still considers Anakin his friend, he wants him to grow & gain the wisdom that Ben knows he’s capable of learning.

I see that lackluster writing is still being patched by fans with assumptions never sustained by anything in the actual show…
The only reason Ben doesn’t kill Vader is because Vader needs to be alive at this point of the lore. That’s the only reason. Anything else is only fan theories that the tvshow makers never thought about giving or implying any kind of explanation 👀

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

In episode 3 Vader is referring to his suit. In episode 6 he is referring to his fall. Two totally different topics.

Quoting myself:

« (Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂) »

You’re so predictable 😂

Bridger12 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Bridger12 said:

I just wish the fanbase wasn’t so passionate and entitled all the time, because that’s the mentality of the Sith.

What?

The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inwards, only about themselves.

That mentality is what led to people actually coming up with a campaign to remake The Last Jedi.

You seem to confuse everything… and to make generalizations and assumptions that land flat.

Hal 9000 said:

It’d be sad to lose the Luke and Reva tension, as I’m usually up for a halfway decent redemption story.

There aren’t any redemption though since there was no reason for her to come after the boy to create a forced tension only there to mimic Lucas parallel montage. And to show Beru as a badass character (because it seems every female character has to be a Ridley/Sarah Connor figure now even if it has nothing to do with the already established character). I can’t think of anything making any sense in this entire subplot… cutting it entirely is a fine decision by all means.

MalaStrana#2 said:

jedi_bendu said:

Help us, Andor, you’re our only hope…

« For Wade!!! »

« Rebellions are built on Wades »

« May Wade be with you »

« I have a bad Wade about it »

« I Wade »

« This is what I call Wading! »

« It’s Wade. All of it »

Etc.

jedi_bendu said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

jedi_bendu said:

Help us, Andor, you’re our only hope…

« For Wade!!! »

I don’t think I could handle seeing Wade again. It would just bring back painful memories of his death.

« Execute Wade 66 »

(Btw how does Ben know about Order 66? I mean this code was only known by Palpy and clones so how come he refers to it as « order 66 » and not as « the clones turning against Jedi » ? It feels off but again it is the least of the show problems)

jedi_bendu said:

Help us, Andor, you’re our only hope…

« For Wade!!! »

😂

https://twitter.com/zachsilberberg/status/1539681678997823491?s=21&t=GI6oFU24rNMgS7xekDTDTA

@FrederikOlsen

You keep missing the point very hard. Stop being obsessed with me and try to see beyond that. Again you should read the link I posted, you won’t get dumber by doing so, trust me. If you don’t it’s fine as well. But no need to keep interacting with me as it goes nowhere. I made my point several time and I have nothing more to add. Not interested anymore. No wish to put more energy than the show put itself. Enjoy your day!

Sure. You keep missing the point. It’s ok I wasn’t expecting more so it’s cool.

FrederikOlsen said:

You didn’t even counter my argument

Because you don’t provide any substance to anything. You just read the issues regarding continuity without noticing all the rest. You should read the film crit hulk paper as he is way better than me to address the overall issues with this show and with current Star Wars.

On my side I won’t lose time arguing about the show inner consistencies with fans creating their own patches of what the writers of the show didn’t think about making clear and square.

You know, ANH is a very clear and simple movie. This clarity took a hell of time and talent. Something this show is just millions of miles away at every single level. You can like it I don’t really care. This show is insulting to Star Wars and to storytelling and represents everything which is wrong with most of modern productions, not just Star Wars.

So imagine how interested I am of talking back your arguments for a specific line of dialogue that would be explained because A led to B and along C there was D to explain E could make F be G…

« The point is that as everything gives away, as the ouroboros coils tighter and tighter, as corporate needs spill out with endless demand, as the fans continue to make excuses, the thing I hold onto more and more is that simple, stupid, deluded notion of hope itself. »

This hulk crit guy really nails it. I love this guy.

FrederikOlsen said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

Anakin already identified as Darth Vader by the time he fought Obi-Wan in ROTS, meaning that Vader’s physical state is indeed Obi-Wan’s handiwork. There’s nothing remotely inconsistent about those two lines. It’s Obi-Wan who keeps calling Vader “Anakin”. Vader himself is pretty adamant about that guy being gone, even before he suits up.

I enjoyed this show. It wasn’t a masterpiece, but I don’t think it set out to be. But the vigour with which some viewers will look for “plot holes”, particularly in something as oft-patchy as Star Wars, is getting ridiculous.

Nothing is as ridiculous that people actually defending this failed cheap tvshow. But again I’m glad I can finally move on. If they fuck up something as important as a DIRECT prequel to the most important piece of cultural phenomenon of the last 50 years, I don’t see how Disney can ever do something even remotely watchable.

You like that, good for you. It just ain’t Star Wars : just a mere product to keep subscriptions going on a steaming platform. This is what Star Wars has become. A tv show that bears nothing.

« Star Wars means nothing to me » is what fake Vader could say to fake Palpy.

Hulk nailed it again :

https://www.patreon.com/posts/68130106

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

NeverarGreat said:

Like, Obi-wan knew that Vader had a personal shuttle with which to pursue him in alone, and also had the Grand Inquisitor with which to continue pursuit of the refugees. Yet Vader just diverts the entire Star Destroyer to follow Obi-wan and then just leaves it behind and says that he will now follow Obi-wan alone in his ship. Baffling.

It was « TLJ for dummies ».